Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
08-06-2011, 09:05 AM   #106
Veteran Member
paperbag846's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2010
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 2,396
QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
Also, "developed for digital" doesn't really mean much given Pentax hasn't designed a film camera since the *ist and MZ-S. Therefore any lens currently developed can be stated to be made "for digital" but that doesn't mean it is going to automatically out perform the FA 50/1.4 or the F 28/2.8 on digital. Case in point, the DA 18-55 AL WR.
I don't totally disagree with you, or have the technical knowledge to challenge what you say, but owning the kit and FA 50, DA 15, and having owned the FA 77, DA 70, and DA 40, I can say I see more similarities between the colour of the DA 40, 70, and kit, and similarities between the FA 77 and FA 50, when it comes to colour. There is some sort of consistent colour rendering decision made during the design of all of the DA lenses. They have more blue / contrast. The FA lenses tend to be warmer (red / yellow / green).

I don't love one over the other, but it's very obvious to me that there is something very different about designed for digital lenses (you can also see the difference w.r.t. flare resistance between the FA ltds and DA ltds). This is likely due to a difference in the shape of the rear element, and its only obvious in extreme conditions.

08-06-2011, 10:01 AM   #107
Moderator
Site Supporter
Blue's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Florida Hill Country
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 17,166
QuoteOriginally posted by paperbag846 Quote
I don't totally disagree with you, or have the technical knowledge to challenge what you say, but owning the kit and FA 50, DA 15, and having owned the FA 77, DA 70, and DA 40, I can say I see more similarities between the colour of the DA 40, 70, and kit, and similarities between the FA 77 and FA 50, when it comes to colour. There is some sort of consistent colour rendering decision made during the design of all of the DA lenses. They have more blue / contrast. The FA lenses tend to be warmer (red / yellow / green).

I don't love one over the other, but it's very obvious to me that there is something very different about designed for digital lenses (you can also see the difference w.r.t. flare resistance between the FA ltds and DA ltds). This is likely due to a difference in the shape of the rear element, and its only obvious in extreme conditions.

I don't really think the flare control between the 2 can be compared unless you want to stop down the FA 77 ltd to f2.4 and the FA 43mm down to f2.8. That said I wond 3 DA Ltd and 1 FA ltd at present. If I had my preference, I would rather have the FA 43 over the DA 40 that I currently have mainly due to the aperture ring.

This has been hashed before but the FA 77 gets hammered for PF more than other lenses of ~ that focal range and faster than f2 (including 85mm lenses). That is because Photozone torture tested it and not the DA 70 either time they tested the 70. However, the 77 came out with very low CA in there tests and a very good evaluation but people sometimes tend to look at the comments and not the numbers. Photozone penalizes the FA ltd lenses due to their price point relative the DA series as well which is a separate evaluation line in my book.

The DA 40 probably does better on film than the M 40 with which it share design similarities. The M's reviews on film were/are mixed.

I don't really promote one ltd series over another because it comes down to personal choice. For those of us that shoot digital and some film, the FA ltd makes a lot of since though. I still find it fascinating that the same guy designed the DA 40 and FA 43.
08-06-2011, 10:27 AM   #108
Veteran Member
paperbag846's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2010
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 2,396
QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
I don't really think the flare control between the 2 can be compared unless you want to stop down the FA 77 ltd to f2.4 and the FA 43mm down to f2.8.
That is how I compared them. The DAs still preformed better. However the differences are not huge - you need to REALLY stress the lens to see the differences (much better to just adjust the shot to control flare - better results with EITHER lens).

QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
I would rather have the FA 43 over the DA 40 that I currently have mainly due to the aperture ring.
I'm not commenting on which is better. I am commenting on differences in colour rendering.

QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
This has been hashed before but the FA 77 gets hammered for PF more than other lenses of ~ that focal range and faster than f2 (including 85mm lenses).
Are you even reading what I am writing?

QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
The DA 40 probably does better on film than the M 40 with which it share design similarities.
???

QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
I don't really promote one ltd series over another because it comes down to personal choice.
Perhaps, but I have no idea why you are avoiding the rather obvious differences in colour rendering...
08-06-2011, 10:57 AM   #109
Moderator
Site Supporter
Blue's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Florida Hill Country
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 17,166
QuoteOriginally posted by paperbag846 Quote
That is how I compared them. The DAs still preformed better. However the differences are not huge - you need to REALLY stress the lens to see the differences (much better to just adjust the shot to control flare - better results with EITHER lens).
I was just pointing out that very thing because it appeared that you were making a major difference out of it.



QuoteOriginally posted by paperbag846 Quote
I'm not commenting on which is better. I am commenting on differences in colour rendering.
The thread wasn't just about color rendering differences.

QuoteOriginally posted by paperbag846 Quote
Are you even reading what I am writing?
That is a 2 way street!! The quote from a few posts back explained one of the design aspects that could effect color rendering from one design to another.

QuoteOriginally posted by paperbag846 Quote
???
Just pointing out that the design improvements in the DA 40 not only improved on digital in comparison to the M 40, but on film as well. Just like sensors are different, so are films.

QuoteOriginally posted by paperbag846 Quote
Perhaps, but I have no idea why you are avoiding the rather obvious differences in colour rendering...
I am NOT avoiding it. What part of personal preference do you not get regarding "Color"? This comes down to the "character" of the lens. Sensors (and film type) can have some influence here as well. However, I think it is a lens by lens difference and not a DA vs. FA difference.


Edit: This dead horse has been beaten twice now and while I have added a few new things to this thread the second time around. I am done with it for a while anyway.



08-06-2011, 11:06 AM   #110
Veteran Member
paperbag846's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2010
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 2,396
QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
I think it is a lens by lens difference and not a DA vs. FA difference.
While I argue the opposite, but you do not bring anything to this discussion?

This is a major difference between the lens lines, and it is what I meant to jump in and comment on.
08-06-2011, 06:07 PM   #111
Moderator
Site Supporter
Blue's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Florida Hill Country
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 17,166
QuoteOriginally posted by paperbag846 Quote
While I argue the opposite, but you do not bring anything to this discussion?

This is a major difference between the lens lines, and it is what I meant to jump in and comment on.
What the hell is that supposed to mean? :Hand:

You conveniently forget 1 little detail when you say that the DA ltd series renders colors differently than the FA ltd series. #1 the FA 31 has no peer in the DA ltd series. #2 the DA 15 , 21, and 35 ltd have no peers in the FA ltd series so there is not a 1 to 1 comparison even possible with the 2 series regarding color. #3 once again you fail to acknowledge that sensor (or film type) can interact with the output.

:deadhorse:
08-07-2011, 08:49 AM   #112
Veteran Member
Pentaxor's Avatar

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Vancouver, B.C.
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 6,513
DA LTD for DA LTD rendering, size factor and slower aperture.

FA LTD for FA LTD rendering, built and fast aperture.

both type of lenses are must own for people who can afford them.
08-07-2011, 09:03 AM   #113
Veteran Member
paperbag846's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2010
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 2,396
QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
What the hell is that supposed to mean?

You conveniently forget 1 little detail when you say that the DA ltd series renders colors differently than the FA ltd series. #1 the FA 31 has no peer in the DA ltd series. #2 the DA 15 , 21, and 35 ltd have no peers in the FA ltd series so there is not a 1 to 1 comparison even possible with the 2 series regarding color. #3 once again you fail to acknowledge that sensor (or film type) can interact with the output.
You can see what I mean by what you start commenting on afterwards. I'm not claiming that the DAs are better for anything, but they ARE consistently different in colour rendering from the FAs (whether it be due to optical design decision, coatings, or both).

Any and all of the DAs will render a more saturated blue sky on the SAME CAMERA (i.e., controlling for sensor differences) when compared with and and all of the FA ltds.

However, the opposite could be said about how convincingly the FA ltds deal with warmer colours (i.e, skin tones).

I'm not really bad mouthing either series, but you want to engage me on a very broad topic while I'm simply trying to illuminate a difference I see between the lenses that is not often discussed here (its mostly about lens speed, etc.)

08-07-2011, 10:11 AM   #114
Moderator
Site Supporter
Blue's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Florida Hill Country
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 17,166
QuoteOriginally posted by paperbag846 Quote
You can see what I mean by what you start commenting on afterwards. I'm not claiming that the DAs are better for anything, but they ARE consistently different in colour rendering from the FAs (whether it be due to optical design decision, coatings, or both).

Any and all of the DAs will render a more saturated blue sky on the SAME CAMERA (i.e., controlling for sensor differences) when compared with and and all of the FA ltds.

However, the opposite could be said about how convincingly the FA ltds deal with warmer colours (i.e, skin tones).

I'm not really bad mouthing either series, but you want to engage me on a very broad topic while I'm simply trying to illuminate a difference I see between the lenses that is not often discussed here (its mostly about lens speed, etc.)
I wasn't saying you were bad mouthing either series. Neither am I. However, you can't say the DA 21 ltd renders a sky more saturated than its corresponding FA ltd because there isn't one. Same goes with the DA 15. Now if you won't to discuss the the DA 21 vs. the K or M 20/4 or FA or A 20/2.8 that would be interesting . I find the DA 21 to be a classic Pentax looking image. I have never owned either the A 15 or DA 15 but that would be interesting as well. There are more things to rendering differences than just the color. All of these things can give a lens its character. As far as saturated colors go, I have seen some nice saturated images from both the FA 43 and DA 40.
08-07-2011, 05:41 PM   #115
Pentaxian
Digitalis's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Adelaide.
Posts: 8,535
QuoteOriginally posted by paperbag846 Quote
Hmm, you misunderstood me.
Sorry if I jumped on you, I have dealt with people before who accused SMC coatings and their variants for CA problems.
08-07-2011, 06:15 PM   #116
Ash
Community Manager
Loyal Site Supporter
Ash's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Toowoomba, Queensland
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 22,678
Guys, if this unnecessary bantering continues on this well beaten-track, it may lead to a dead end...

Last edited by Ash; 08-07-2011 at 07:38 PM.
08-07-2011, 07:25 PM   #117
Veteran Member
Pentaxor's Avatar

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Vancouver, B.C.
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 6,513
QuoteOriginally posted by Ash Quote
Guys, if this unnecessary bantering goes on this well beaten-track, it may lead to a dead end...
well said ASH. and to conclude this, both the FA LTD and DA LTD lenses suck. Canon L lenses are the best.
08-07-2011, 07:35 PM   #118
Veteran Member




Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: National Capital Region
Posts: 738
"People, I just want to say, you know, can FA and DA limiteds all get along? Can they get along? Can we stop making it, making it horrible for the FA and DA limiteds?...Itís just not right. Itís not right. Itís not, itís not going to change anything."

"Please, FA and DA limited can get along here. They all can get along. I mean, they are all stuck here for a while. Letís try to work it out. Letís try to beat it. Letís try to beat it. Letís try to work it out"
08-08-2011, 02:38 AM   #119
Pentaxian
Digitalis's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Adelaide.
Posts: 8,535
QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxor Quote
Canon L lenses are the best.
*smacks pentaxor on the back of his head*


Leica lenses are the best!
08-08-2011, 06:49 AM   #120
Veteran Member
Pentaxor's Avatar

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Vancouver, B.C.
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 6,513
QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
*smacks pentaxor on the back of his head*


Leica lenses are the best!
our friendly neighborhood salesperson would argue. although he would mistook Leica for a person.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
da, da limiteds, fa, k-mount, limiteds, pentax lens, slr lens
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Silver Limiteds designinme_1976 Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 1 11-07-2010 11:19 AM
DA or FA limiteds? coloseu Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 14 02-24-2009 10:18 AM
FA* or FA limiteds Harmonica Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 12 10-09-2008 09:53 PM
Limiteds: 35/2.8 vs 43/1.9 paolojackson Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 4 09-30-2008 08:46 PM
DA Limiteds jzamora Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 17 07-02-2008 06:48 AM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:06 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top