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01-12-2011, 09:14 PM   #106
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QuoteOriginally posted by Hound Tooth Quote
And it's only in the high-end luxury cars that they market to their best customers.
Pentax is high-end luxury? I'd consider them top of the line Hyundais*. High-end luxury, not so much.


* 20 years ago that would be an insult. Now it's not.

01-12-2011, 09:30 PM   #107
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QuoteOriginally posted by Hound Tooth Quote
It's still a terrible, pointless analogy.
The original analogy was made to describe how adding complexity to a product (whether it be a focusing motor to a lens or electronic components to a car) increases the number of things that can potentially fail. Beyond that there isn't really a good analogy between specific car components and the SDM lens, and no one has suggested otherwise.

QuoteOriginally posted by Hound Tooth Quote
However I'll take your ridiculous analogy and make it relevant: imagine a vehicle manufacturer that includes both power windows AND a manual window crank. But you're forbidden to use that crank when the power window motor fails.

Oh, and the power window motor is only warrantied for a year, even though it's failure-prone.

And it's only in the high-end luxury cars that they market to their best customers.
Do I think Pentax should allow the use of screw-drive, either as an option or as a fail-safe if the SDM motor fails? Absolutely.

Do I think Pentax should extend the warranty for DA* lenses because of the high rate of failure of the SDM motors? Again, yes.

Is it surprising that there are more issues with an expensive lens, marketed to their "best customers", which use more parts, dual AF systems, and a motor that was new (to Pentax)? Disappointing - yes. Surprising - not really.
01-12-2011, 09:33 PM   #108
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
Stop talking sensibly. You're making the Internets boring.
Sorry I will try to be less rational and more reactionary in the future.

QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
Pentax is high-end luxury? I'd consider them top of the line Hyundais*. High-end luxury, not so much.

* 20 years ago that would be an insult. Now it's not.
I'd have to agree with that... maybe what I really need is a co-branded Pentax Genesis So long as it's not a hybrid with an SDM motor
01-12-2011, 10:05 PM - 1 Like   #109
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
Pentax is high-end luxury? I'd consider them top of the line Hyundais*. High-end luxury, not so much.

DA "*" lenses are supposed to be Pentax "Pro" level, or "Luxury" glass, or whatever one chooses to call it. I remember long ago the "*" on Pentax glass was a mark of excellence. We Pentaxians dreamed of owning "*" level glass. To us, it meant the same thing as "L" glass to Canon shooters.

Now, I fear that the "*" is no longer a "star" but an asterisk, serving as a disclaimer for slow performance, poor quality control, and terrible warranty. When I read an ad for a DA* lens, this is the way I see it:

"The Pentax DA* series of high-grade lenses designed exclusively for Pentax digital SLR cameras."
*Purchaser understands that use of the DA* lens is entirely at your own risk. Warranty only valid for one year. Sometimes requires spinning of focus barrel to wake up SDM motor. Pentax is not responsible for intermittent SDM failure, or decentered focus at f/2.8. Purchaser agrees to be bound by the terms of this disclaimer and not hold Pentax liable, nor post negative feedback about the lens on photography forums. All similarities to FA* glass either specific or implied is strictly a coincidence. Purchaser agrees to the statement that "SDM failure is a myth", and further agrees not to compare focus speed to other manufacturers. Shots missed due to the focus speed and/or SDM failure of DA* lenses are entirely the responsibility of the photographer. All rights reserved.


Last edited by PentaxPoke; 01-13-2011 at 09:07 AM.
01-12-2011, 10:28 PM   #110
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
Pentax is high-end luxury? I'd consider them top of the line Hyundais*. High-end luxury, not so much.
That's irrelevant. I didn't say they were the high-end of their market. I said SDM is featured in their highest-range. Nowhere did I claim Pentax was the equivalent of BMW or Audio or MB. You can think of them as Lada if you prefer.
01-12-2011, 10:29 PM   #111
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QuoteOriginally posted by PentaxPoke Quote
Now, I fear that the "*" is no longer a "star" but an asterisk, serving as a disclaimer for slow performance, poor quality control, and terrible warranty:
Oh wow, that's a whole new way to look at that asterisk. Love it!
01-12-2011, 10:32 PM   #112
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QuoteOriginally posted by dgaies Quote
Do I think Pentax should allow the use of screw-drive, either as an option or as a fail-safe if the SDM motor fails? Absolutely.

Do I think Pentax should extend the warranty for DA* lenses because of the high rate of failure of the SDM motors? Again, yes.

Is it surprising that there are more issues with an expensive lens, marketed to their "best customers", which use more parts, dual AF systems, and a motor that was new (to Pentax)? Disappointing - yes. Surprising - not really.
That's great. "I wish Pentax did things better because the status quo sucks, but I'll continue to encourage unknowing dupes to buy a flawed product and fill Pentax's coffers."
01-13-2011, 05:06 AM   #113
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QuoteOriginally posted by Hound Tooth Quote
That's great. "I wish Pentax did things better because the status quo sucks, but I'll continue to encourage unknowing dupes to buy a flawed product and fill Pentax's coffers."
There is no real data and so this conversation is done, as far as I am concerned. For those who have had SDM fail, the rate is "100 percent."

As far as "encouraging" unknowing "dupes" to buy SDM lenses, when someone is interested in one of these lenses, I always mention SDM is a possible issue and encourage people (if possible) to get extended warranties or, to get one of the other lenses that does not use SDM.

As dgaies has said, I would (a) like them to be more reliable and (b) like Pentax to extend the warranty themselves, but since that doesn't seem to be happening, I have gone ahead and purchased several of these lenses and continue to use them without fear and trepidation. I understand that it is necessary to shoot down any opinion but your own, but calling everyone who buys these lenses "dupes" is crazy in my book.

01-13-2011, 05:21 AM   #114
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QuoteOriginally posted by PentaxPoke Quote
DA "*" lenses are supposed to be Pentax "Pro" level, or "Luxury" glass, or whatever one chooses to call it. I remember long ago the "*" on Pentax glass was a mark of excellence. We Pentaxians dreamed of owning "*" level glass. To us, it meant the same thing as "L" glass to Canon shooters.

Now, I fear that the "*" is no longer a "star" but an asterisk, serving as a disclaimer for slow performance, poor quality control, and terrible warranty. When I read an ad for a DA* lens, this is the way I see it:

"The Pentax DA* series of high-grade lenses designed exlusively for Pentax digital SLR cameras."
*Purchaser understands that use of the DA* lens is entirely at your own risk. Warranty only valid for one year. Sometimes requires spinning of focus barrel to wake up SDM motor. Pentax is not responsible for intermittent SDM failure, or decentered focus at f/2.8. Purchaser agrees to be bound by the terms of this disclaimer and not hold Pentax liable, nor post negative feedback about the lens on photography forums. All similarities to FA* glass either specific or implied is strictly a coincidence. Purchaser agrees to the statement that "SDM failure is a myth", and further agrees not to compare focus speed to other manufacturers. Shots missed due to the focus speed and/or SDM failure of DA* lenses are entirely the responsibility of the photographer. All rights reserved.

That's just too funny!
01-13-2011, 05:22 AM   #115
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And yet so sad and true.
01-13-2011, 06:46 AM   #116
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QuoteOriginally posted by Hound Tooth Quote
That's great. "I wish Pentax did things better because the status quo sucks, but I'll continue to encourage unknowing dupes to buy a flawed product and fill Pentax's coffers."
My argument has always been that anyone looking to buy an SDM lens has to decide if the benefits outweight the risks (and costs) associated with a possible SDM failure. I am perfectly willing to accept the risk of a potential failure if I decide the buy a particular lens. I also realize that for some buyers the idea that their lens might need repair during its life is enough to pass on the product altogether; I have no issue with that position either. But to suggest that no one should ever buy any SDM lens because they might fail and need to be repaired is silly. Furthermore, the notion that I, or anyone else, "encourage unknowing dupes to buy a flawed product" is baseless and inflammatory.

Last edited by dgaies; 01-13-2011 at 07:23 AM.
01-13-2011, 09:09 AM   #117
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I love my DA*50-135mm lens but there is no way that the DA* lens and kit lens should have the same warranty.
01-13-2011, 09:20 AM   #118
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if you don't need or after WR, you are better off with the Sigma 17-50.
01-13-2011, 09:47 AM - 1 Like   #119
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I just read through this whole thread looking for information because I'm thinking of buying a Pentax DA* 200mm F2.8 SDM Lens.

It's kind of discouraging to have the whole thread dominate by a few folks who have had problems, it would seem mainly with the 50-135. I actually moved that lens off my list after looking at the lens sharpness comparisons on this site. 8 pages, and I didn't find one comment on the lens I'm looking at, that's kind of discouraging.

After reading this thread I'm becoming a fan of the some paraphrased old Quaker advice.. State your case as clearly as possible, from your experience once, without referring to or attacking other people. Don't try to dominate a conversation. Speaking more than once is to be discouraged... if you respected the forum by making your case thoroughly in your first post, you don't need to do it again. Convince with the power of your argument, not with the number of your posts or with insults. After your first post, people know what you think.

I have to say, I stopped reading a few of the posters on this thread, because all they kept saying over and over again was "I'm really angry and it's Pentax's fault." I got it. But I am totally capable of making my own conclusions about what your experience means in the big picture. My conclusions are not the same as yours, they never will be, and flogging me with them accomplishes nothing.

Now what about that PENTAX DA* 200MM F2.8 ED SDM LENS. Anyone using it?

Last edited by normhead; 01-13-2011 at 09:52 AM.
01-13-2011, 01:49 PM   #120
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
I just read through this whole thread looking for information because I'm thinking of buying a Pentax DA* 200mm F2.8 SDM Lens.

It's kind of discouraging to have the whole thread dominate by a few folks who have had problems, it would seem mainly with the 50-135. I actually moved that lens off my list after looking at the lens sharpness comparisons on this site. 8 pages, and I didn't find one comment on the lens I'm looking at, that's kind of discouraging.

After reading this thread I'm becoming a fan of the some paraphrased old Quaker advice.. State your case as clearly as possible, from your experience once, without referring to or attacking other people. Don't try to dominate a conversation. Speaking more than once is to be discouraged... if you respected the forum by making your case thoroughly in your first post, you don't need to do it again. Convince with the power of your argument, not with the number of your posts or with insults. After your first post, people know what you think.

I have to say, I stopped reading a few of the posters on this thread, because all they kept saying over and over again was "I'm really angry and it's Pentax's fault." I got it. But I am totally capable of making my own conclusions about what your experience means in the big picture. My conclusions are not the same as yours, they never will be, and flogging me with them accomplishes nothing.

Now what about that PENTAX DA* 200MM F2.8 ED SDM LENS. Anyone using it?
very well said, sir.
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