Sigma OS feature combined with Pentax Shake Reduction?

CS13B · 12-30-2010, 09:56 PM

Hi all,

New to the forum first of all so hello.
I use a Pentax K10D and I'm looking to purchase a larger telephoto than my Pentax DA 50-200mm, and currently on my list is a Sigma 70-300mm OS lens for it's reasonable price and OS feature which I thought would be a useful feature for panning shots since I do a lot of motorsports photography.
I just wanted to know if anyone can let me know if this feature by Sigma incorporated into some of its lenses is okay to use with the in-body shake reduction in the K10D. Will they work well together or combat each other during high-speed panning shots. I don't have a monopod yet as I really haven't needed it with the 200mm, but if the shake reduction and OS don't work together to 'double' the shake reduction feature than I may have to work a monopod into my budget.

Thanks,

Charles S.

SpecialK · 12-30-2010, 10:03 PM

You do not use both systems together.

Edgar_in_Indy · 12-30-2010, 10:30 PM

I've had that same thought before, and it would be cool if you could use a stabilized lens on a stabilized-sensor body and get some kind of super-stabilized multiplication effect, but unfortunately that is not that case. I don't know the technical reasons, but maybe somebody else on here can explain why it doesn't work. Perhaps the lens OS would by "zigging" while the sensor OS would be "zagging".

Even so, it is good to see OS lenses becoming available in Pentax mount. I own the Sigma 50-150mm and used to own the Pentax 55-300mm, and my experience has been that my K-x's stabilization is not stellar at longer focal lengths. I seem to remember my Olympus doing better. And some of the newer OS implementations in lenses are reported to be very effective.

On a related note, I recently wrote Tamron to see if their new 70-300mm VC lens would be available in K-mount, and I received a reply saying there were no plans for a Pentax release. Bummer, since that is supposed to be a very good lens optically and the VC is supposed to be very effective.

hcc · 12-30-2010, 11:14 PM

A few comments:

* SpecialK is correct. You use either the lens OS or the in-camera SR (or IS). Do not use the OS and IS together. They are simply incompatible.

* There is a very interesting article on a well-documented comparison in terms of performances between the lens OS and in-camera IS:
Image Stabilization Test: Olympus E-520 SLR Body - SLRgear.com!

The basic outcomes were simple:
"the performance of the Olympus E-520's IS system certainly demonstrated that there's no inherent reason why sensor-based IS systems should underperform lens-based ones"
"Overall, the Olympus E-520 delivered really excellent IS performance, easily on par with the best lens-based systems we've tested to date"

* Lens OS or camera IS should not be used when the camera is mounted on a tripod.

The Pentax SR (shake reduction) is well respected and it gives some excellent results.

I use my K-7 handheld all the time and I always use SR (ie the in-camera IS). I did some systematic comparison with and without SR, and the SR is definitely very effective. I would expect the same from the K-x SR.

Hope that the comments will help...

and Happy New Year.

Last edited by hcc; 12-31-2010 at 04:31 PM.

Cannikin · 12-30-2010, 11:21 PM

From first hand experience, I can say that having in-lens stabilization (Sigma OS) and in-body stabilization on at the same time will cause a conflict, negating any effect (possibly making it even worse than having both off).

I imagine it has something to do with both of them independently floating. They both operate under the assumption that nothing else is moving. OS moves the lens elements to keep the image stable. At the same time, the sensor also moves relative to what it predicts the image should be doing due to inertia (it has nothing to do with the image itself, but how much shaking the sensor experiences). Since the image is already "stable" from the lens OS, and thus does not move as the sensor expects, moving the sensor again introduces its own new movement relative to the stable image, causing blur.

Quicksand · 12-30-2010, 11:27 PM - **3 Likes**

Using both systems together will rupture the space-time continuum and open up a wormhole. Don't do it.

Edgar_in_Indy · 12-31-2010, 11:41 AM

Originally posted by Quicksand

Using both systems together will rupture the space-time continuum and open up a wormhole. Don't do it.

I read that in the manual, but didn't really believe it.

CS13B · 12-31-2010, 01:11 PM

Okay thanks for all the answers! Very helpful.
Since the OS feature seems like the only 'plus' on that lens compared to the cheaper Macro version of the 70-300mm I may just purchase the cheaper one. That being said I still have a couple weeks worth of research to do lol.
Happy new years

lukelbd · 02-01-2012, 10:57 AM

I searched google and just found this thread.

I had been using combined OS in my Sigma 17-70mm and sensor-shift in my K-r for months, under the premise that the shake reduction would be doubly effective. I suppose at times I just thought I was being careless and not holding still enough, or that stabilization methods are not very powerful to begin with.

I feel pretty stupid now...

But anyways, thanks everyone. This was becoming a big problem for me. Now I know.

Edgar_in_Indy · 02-02-2012, 06:28 AM - **1 Like**

I'm glad that you finally came across this thread, but if a powerful race of malevolent aliens enters our dimension through a wormhole, I'm going hold you personally responsible.

12-30-2010, 09:56 PM	#1
CS13B Inactive Account Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Ontario Posts: 39	Sigma OS feature combined with Pentax Shake Reduction? Hi all, New to the forum first of all so hello. I use a Pentax K10D and I'm looking to purchase a larger telephoto than my Pentax DA 50-200mm, and currently on my list is a Sigma 70-300mm OS lens for it's reasonable price and OS feature which I thought would be a useful feature for panning shots since I do a lot of motorsports photography. I just wanted to know if anyone can let me know if this feature by Sigma incorporated into some of its lenses is okay to use with the in-body shake reduction in the K10D. Will they work well together or combat each other during high-speed panning shots. I don't have a monopod yet as I really haven't needed it with the 200mm, but if the shake reduction and OS don't work together to 'double' the shake reduction feature than I may have to work a monopod into my budget. Thanks, Charles S.

12-30-2010, 11:21 PM	#5
Cannikin Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: SW Washington Posts: 833	From first hand experience, I can say that having in-lens stabilization (Sigma OS) and in-body stabilization on at the same time will cause a conflict, negating any effect (possibly making it even worse than having both off). I imagine it has something to do with both of them independently floating. They both operate under the assumption that nothing else is moving. OS moves the lens elements to keep the image stable. At the same time, the sensor also moves relative to what it predicts the image should be doing due to inertia (it has nothing to do with the image itself, but how much shaking the sensor experiences). Since the image is already "stable" from the lens OS, and thus does not move as the sensor expects, moving the sensor again introduces its own new movement relative to the stable image, causing blur. Last edited by Cannikin; 12-30-2010 at 11:45 PM.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Does Pentax sensor-based Shake Reduction produce image distortion?	secateurs	Pentax DSLR Discussion	11	12-02-2010 02:25 AM
K-x shake reduction with non-Pentax Zoom lenses	JoepLX3	Pentax DSLR Discussion	12	08-21-2010 11:41 AM
Pentax shake reduction revisited (test)	falconeye	Pentax DSLR Discussion	32	07-22-2010 02:36 AM
Pentax K-X Shake Reduction (not noise from rotation related)	Cedromar	Troubleshooting and Beginner Help	3	02-18-2010 03:27 PM
Pentax K-7 Shake reduction problem	raywheeler	Pentax DSLR Discussion	34	12-01-2009 09:30 AM

12-30-2010, 10:03 PM	#2
SpecialK Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: So California Photos: Gallery Posts: 16,481	You do not use both systems together.

12-30-2010, 10:30 PM	#3
Edgar_in_Indy Veteran Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Indiana, USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,685	I've had that same thought before, and it would be cool if you could use a stabilized lens on a stabilized-sensor body and get some kind of super-stabilized multiplication effect, but unfortunately that is not that case. I don't know the technical reasons, but maybe somebody else on here can explain why it doesn't work. Perhaps the lens OS would by "zigging" while the sensor OS would be "zagging". Even so, it is good to see OS lenses becoming available in Pentax mount. I own the Sigma 50-150mm and used to own the Pentax 55-300mm, and my experience has been that my K-x's stabilization is not stellar at longer focal lengths. I seem to remember my Olympus doing better. And some of the newer OS implementations in lenses are reported to be very effective. On a related note, I recently wrote Tamron to see if their new 70-300mm VC lens would be available in K-mount, and I received a reply saying there were no plans for a Pentax release. Bummer, since that is supposed to be a very good lens optically and the VC is supposed to be very effective.

12-30-2010, 11:14 PM	#4
hcc Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Brisbane, Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,004	A few comments: * SpecialK is correct. You use either the lens OS or the in-camera SR (or IS). Do not use the OS and IS together. They are simply incompatible. * There is a very interesting article on a well-documented comparison in terms of performances between the lens OS and in-camera IS: Image Stabilization Test: Olympus E-520 SLR Body - SLRgear.com! The basic outcomes were simple: "the performance of the Olympus E-520's IS system certainly demonstrated that there's no inherent reason why sensor-based IS systems should underperform lens-based ones" "Overall, the Olympus E-520 delivered really excellent IS performance, easily on par with the best lens-based systems we've tested to date" * Lens OS or camera IS should not be used when the camera is mounted on a tripod. The Pentax SR (shake reduction) is well respected and it gives some excellent results. I use my K-7 handheld all the time and I always use SR (ie the in-camera IS). I did some systematic comparison with and without SR, and the SR is definitely very effective. I would expect the same from the K-x SR. Hope that the comments will help... and Happy New Year. Last edited by hcc; 12-31-2010 at 04:31 PM.

12-30-2010, 11:27 PM - 3 Likes	#6
Quicksand Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Central Ohio (formerly SF Bay Area) Posts: 1,519	Using both systems together will rupture the space-time continuum and open up a wormhole. Don't do it.

12-31-2010, 11:41 AM	#7
Edgar_in_Indy Veteran Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Indiana, USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,685	Originally posted by Quicksand Using both systems together will rupture the space-time continuum and open up a wormhole. Don't do it. I read that in the manual, but didn't really believe it.

12-31-2010, 01:11 PM	#8
CS13B Inactive Account Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Ontario Posts: 39 Original Poster	Okay thanks for all the answers! Very helpful. Since the OS feature seems like the only 'plus' on that lens compared to the cheaper Macro version of the 70-300mm I may just purchase the cheaper one. That being said I still have a couple weeks worth of research to do lol. Happy new years

02-01-2012, 10:57 AM	#9
lukelbd Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Montreal Posts: 55	I searched google and just found this thread. I had been using combined OS in my Sigma 17-70mm and sensor-shift in my K-r for months, under the premise that the shake reduction would be doubly effective. I suppose at times I just thought I was being careless and not holding still enough, or that stabilization methods are not very powerful to begin with. I feel pretty stupid now... But anyways, thanks everyone. This was becoming a big problem for me. Now I know.

02-02-2012, 06:28 AM - 1 Like	#10
Edgar_in_Indy Veteran Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Indiana, USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,685	I'm glad that you finally came across this thread, but if a powerful race of malevolent aliens enters our dimension through a wormhole, I'm going hold you personally responsible.