[Jewelltrail]

it is no surprise the 85/1.8 has a faster AF and basically it is made as such for fast AF uses. although one would be surprised to see the huge price difference between the slower Nikon to it's faster 85mm brother. and Pentax doesn't have one to offer.

Yes--2 versions of the Nikkor 85 1,4: a "D" version in the $1000 range, & a "G" version in the $1700 range. That is a huge difference from the $449 I paid for the 85 1.8. I can not justify spending that kind of money, but obviously some can.

Then there is the Canon L HSM topping out over $2000. The Sigma has obviously found a niche. It is a very nice lens, priced favorably to compete for those who must have f 1.4.

[Emacs]

even inexpensive glass looks fantastic on the D700

Tell this to local APS-C fanboys who is shouting about the APS-C being about as good on IQ part as FF

[Winder]

Yes--2 versions of the Nikkor 85 1,4: a "D" version in the $1000 range, & a "G" version in the $1700 range. That is a huge difference from the $449 I paid for the 85 1.8. I can not justify spending that kind of money, but obviously some can.

Then there is the Canon L HSM topping out over $2000. The Sigma has obviously found a niche. It is a very nice lens, priced favorably to compete for those who must have f 1.4.

Canon also has an 85mm f/1.8 that is "cheap". It is a good lens and more than enough for most users, but bokeh is not as smooth and it lacks the the "pop" that you get with the 85L.

The Sigma appears to be a very good deal in terms of IQ vs. Price.

[Pentaxor]

Tell this to local APS-C fanboys who is shouting about the APS-C being about as good on IQ part as FF

you mustn't have heard about the X100.

[Jewelltrail]

Tell this to local APS-C fanboys who is shouting about the APS-C being about as good on IQ part as FF

Yes, saying APS-c IQ=full-frame is like saying full frame IQ=Medium format. So Silly!

Winder:Canon also has an 85mm f/1.8 that is "cheap". It is a good lens and more than enough for most users, but bokeh is not as smooth and it lacks the the "pop" that you get with the 85L.

The Sigma appears to be a very good deal in terms of IQ vs. Price.

Agreed! Sorry if my post came off as anti-Canon--I was trying to show the escalation in price for 85mm as speed increases. Canon has a complete lens lineup--for sure.

Pentaxor: you mustn't have heard about the X100.

I've heard about it & have been waiting for reviews. I was excited about this camera, until I read the DPreview, which gives the X100 more "Cons" than "Pros." The x100 needs a lot of debugging to make it usable. See here:

Fujifilm FinePix X100 Review: 25. Conclusion: Digital Photography Review

[rparmar]

Tell this to local APS-C fanboys who is shouting about the APS-C being about as good on IQ part as FF

FF? Don't be a wimp. Just shoot 8x10.

[Pentaxor]

I've heard about it & have been waiting for reviews. I was excited about this camera, until I read the DPreview, which gives the X100 more "Cons" than "Pros." The x100 needs a lot of debugging to make it usable. See here:

Fujifilm FinePix X100 Review: 25. Conclusion: Digital Photography Review

I understand what you mean and it's true. although such cons would rather fall on camera functionality and ergo rather than IQ. there had been a lot of user reviews on dpreview as well regarding the X100. as far as I read, I have seen more praises from owners rather than dissatisfaction. this could be because owners were spoiled by the X100's IQ and VF. I'm sure you have seen a lot of images and some comparisons as well.

[Winder]

Tell this to local APS-C fanboys who is shouting about the APS-C being about as good on IQ part as FF

Give me glass that is optimized for the APS-C sensor (faster & sharper at wider apertures) and matching the IQ is not a problem for most forms of photography.

APS-C is more demanding of glass and the higher pixel densities mean they need more light at a given shutter speed to keep ISO lower. The problem arises when you are using glass designed for 135mm film on an APS-C body

The guy who bought my E-3 has a 300mm f/2.8 ZD lens for it. Try matching that with a Nikon D700 for bird and wildlife work. D700 ($2,300) + a 600mm f/4G ($11,000).

There are advantages to the APS-C system and there are advantages to a larger sensor.

[Jewelltrail]

I understand what you mean and it's true. although such cons would rather fall on camera functionality and ergo rather than IQ. there had been a lot of user reviews on dpreview as well regarding the X100. as far as I read, I have seen more praises from owners rather than dissatisfaction. this could be because owners were spoiled by the X100's IQ and VF. I'm sure you have seen a lot of images and some comparisons as well.

I've seen some images from the camera, and read about it, but doubt I know as much as you do. The only reason I know about it is I passed a reference you made to it in our forum many months back--thank you, btw.

You are correct: the issues are ergonomics/functionality according to DPReview. IQ, build quality & viewfinder are excellent. Once the quirks are removed I suspect the camera will really take off.

Winder: The guy who bought my E-3 has a 300mm f/2.8 ZD lens for it. Try matching that with a Nikon D700 for bird and wildlife work. D700 ($2,300) + a 600mm f/4G ($11,000).

There are advantages to the APS-C system and there are advantages to a larger sensor.

Great point---reason why I kept my K20d body and 90mm Macro. If I want to shoot Macro on the D700 at comparable lengths & IQ, I would need to spend for the Sigma 150mm 2.8 macro, which reduces most of my macro to the tri-pod. That would be sad, because I love chasing fast moving insects & what not with the Pentax setup, because SR and lighter gear allow me to shoot handheld. The 90mm 2.8 is much lighter than the 150 2.8--I could buy the new version of the 150, with Image Stabilization, but then the credit card gets stretched even more.

Thank goodness (bills must be paid, afterall) nearly all my passion for photography can be quenched @ ultra-wide to short tele end of the range, otherwise I would be bankrupt. I also love to focus manually, which the D700 makes pure pleasure.

[Laurentiu Cristofor]

Once the quirks are removed I suspect the camera will really take off.

You mean that the fact it is out of stock pretty much everywhere is not a good indication of it "taking off"?

[Jewelltrail]

Laurentiu Cristofor: You mean that the fact it is out of stock pretty much everywhere is not a good indication of it "taking off"?

No, what I mean is what I said--you have taking 2 words out of their original context--that is a no-no. Let me repost what I said for you here:

Jewelltrail: Once the quirks are removed I suspect the camera will really take off.

The camera is enjoying a sales surge because the camera has been preordered, going back over 6 months now. However, it is obviously a disappointment since DPreview will not even give it a "recommended" rating, given all its issues. I suspect, once the quirks are removed the camera will really take off. Does this help you to better understand my sentence???

BTW, in under 60 seconds, on 2 out of 3 reputable dealers I tried, the camera is in stock: Here are the links to help you understand better--let me know if you would like me to explain the sentence some more.

JR.com: Search Results for fuji x100

Amazon.com: fuji x100

[Laurentiu Cristofor]

The camera is enjoying a sales surge because the camera has been preordered, going back over 6 months now. However, it is obviously a disappointment since DPreview will not even give it a "recommended" rating, given all its issues. I suspect, once the quirks are removed the camera will really take off. Does this help you to better understand my sentence???

Not really, no.

What more signs does a camera need to give for taking off other than being sold out within hours of becoming available. Everyone I know that got it, is happy with it and is using it more than their DSLR. How can it then be a disappointment just because dpreview gave it a recommended rating?

As for it being available, try clicking your links again - the first one says it's "on order from manufacturer" and the amazon one is for a third party seller that is selling it for extra $600. Thanks for trying though.

[Jewelltrail]

Our Price $1,199.95 Adorama Camera
Due to Manufacturers restrictions, we're unable to sell this item online.

To order please call us at.

1-800-223-2500
or visit our store see map

Above is the message at the Adorama site. See, for example, 16128244 Fujifilm Finepix X100 Digital Camera, 12.3 Megapixels, SD/SDHC/SDXC Memory Card, 23mm F/2 Lens, 2.8 inch LCD Monitor Clearly Fuji is going to release this novel item in a manner consistent with American capitalism. Anyone who wants to buy the camera from Adorama can simply call the 1-800 number & buy it. Notice the Adorama page does not say the camera is sold out--it says Fuji has restricted its sale methodology.

Laurentiu Cristofor: How can it then be a disappointment just because dpreview gave it a recommended rating?

You have a habit of misreading posters. I believe in helping people, so I'll give you another try. But you will need to try harder too--okay? Let's try again, very slooooowly:

Jewelltrail: However, it is obviously a disappointment since DPreview will not even give it a "recommended" rating, given all its issues.

Here is the concluding sentence from the DPReview review:

It's too flawed to earn our outright recommendation, but if you're prepared to tolerate its manifold foibles as the price to pay for its superb image quality, it's a camera you can easily grow to love.

In other words, you misread my post again--the camera, as you suggest, is not "recommended" by DPReview; rather, it is not recommended--they can not, with a clear conscience, recommend the X100 because of all its quirks. However, I suspect, once the quirks are repaired, the camera will really take off.

Laurentiu Cristofor: As for it being available, try clicking your links again - the first one says it's "on order from manufacturer" and the amazon one is for a third party seller that is selling it for extra $600.

The camera can be added to your inbox, at either link. This is surprsing, given that Fuji is not even letting sellers like Adorama sell the X100 online.

Laurentiu Cristofor: Everyone I know that got it, is happy with it and is using it more than their DSLR.

Do you really believe you know enough people to make the camera take off? Besides, and I'll try one more time in the interest of helping you, I did not say the camera has not taken off. Here is what I said. Try to read the sentence slowly, it might help you to grasp its contextual meaning if you do this--thanks.

Jewelltrail: Once the quirks are removed I suspect the camera will really take off.


BEST!

[jstevewhite]

Yes, saying APS-c IQ=full-frame is like saying full frame IQ=Medium format. So Silly!

Funny, I came here looking for the comparison between those two lenses... No matter. Emacs is confused. I'm not aware of anyone making the claim that APS-c IQ==FF IQ. The claim *I* made is that if I make a stack of prints from FF and a stack of prints from APS-c and shuffle them together, and you can't reliably sort them by format, then the IQ difference is essentially irrelevant.

Which experiment I've done, and no one yet has managed it. I *can* do that with small format (35mm) film and medium format film, and I think I might be able to pull it off between APS-c/FF and MF digital @ 11x14 prints, but almost certainly not at 8x10. I cannot do it with FF and APS-c at 8x10 or 11x14 ( with similar megapixels and appropriate lenses ), and I haven't met anyone else that could, either.

Of course, web-sized images are indistinguishable in IQ.

I made the additional claim that not all FF IQ > all APS-c IQ - which should be self-evident.

And I'm not an APS-c fanboy. I'm a medium format fanboy who thinks the difference between two small formats is not very important.

Emacs likes to misunderstand and get irate about his misunderstandings.

[DogLover]

Emacs likes to misunderstand and get irate about his misunderstandings.

And oftentimes he is so very eloquent in his rebuttals.