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01-27-2011, 12:39 PM   #1
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Pentax/Tokina- what's the deal ?

I've noticed Pentax and Tokina seem to share a number of similar lenses....in focal lengths and types...anyways.
  • 12-24
  • 10-17 Fisheye

I know there's more, but that's a few for starters.

I believe that both Pentax and Tokina, are Hoya owned divisions.

It also seems to me that Tokina markets lenses such as the 10-17 fisheye and the 12-24mm super wide for Canon and Nikon mount, but not Pentax mount.

I'm guessing the deal is that lenses are designed.....by Pentax and Tokina collaboratively and then marketed...with some minor cosmetic differences, by each division.

Also maybe the famed Pentax SMC is not on Tokina lenses...or Tokina uses a variation.

This to me, makes good business practice for Hoya.

Does anyone have the answer ?

01-27-2011, 12:45 PM   #2
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I believe you can add the DA*16-50 and 50-135 (and maybe the DA35/2.8 macro) to the list as well.
01-27-2011, 02:25 PM   #3
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If you do a little search on the subject , this was discusse multiple time. I will search and give you the tread I discuss that
01-27-2011, 02:27 PM   #4
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Here the links
Tokina - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And the other info is here
You have all the details here about Kenko and Tokina
Tokina is an affiliate of Kenko,. Nothing else to say
And also you can see the ralationship with Hoya
As you can see the Honorary Chairman of Hoya , is one of the shareholder of Kenko . Hoya is not a shareholder. That different

Kenko International

CORPORATE PROFILE



Trade name Kenko Co., Ltd.
Location of head office 3-9-19 Nishi-Ochiai, Shinjyuku-ku, Tokyo, Japan (Tel:03-5982-1060)
Date of foundation September 21, 1957
Capital 100 million JPYen
Annual sales 18 billion yen (for the year ending in Feb., 2006)
Number of employees 235
Shares Total number of shares issued: 200,000 shares, Amount of par value common share: 500 yen
Main shareholders Toru Yamanaka, Kazuyo Yamanaka, Tetsuo Suzuki and others
Main banks Mizuho Bank (Yaesuguchi Branch), Tokyo Mitsubishi UFJ Bank (Shinjyuku Branch)
and Shoko Chukin Bank (head office)

Clients appointed photo studios, agents of optical products, manufacturers of electric appliances, precision machinery and office automation equipment, and others
Affiliates Inside Japan

Tokina Co., Ltd.

SLIK Corporation.
Kenko Optical Co., Ltd.
Kenko Professional Imaging Co., Ltd.
Friend Optics Co., Ltd.
Foreign countries
THK Photo Products Inc.(USA)
Philippine Kenko Corp.(Philippine)
Kenko.Tokina.Slik.Corp.(Philippine)
Slik Thailand Co., Ltd.(Thailand)
Tokina Industrial Inc.(USA)
Sightron,Inc.(USA)
Changchun Tokina Optical Products Co., Ltd.
Zhongshan Kenko Tokina Precision Industry Co., Ltd.
Nantong Kenko Optical Products Co., Ltd.
Shanghai Kenko Trade Co., Ltd.

Directors Representative Director: Toru Yamanaka (President)
Director: Kato (Manager of Wide Area Sales Department)
Director: Kanji Ohori (Manager of Domestic Sales Department)
Director: Akifumi Ono (Manager of Optics Sales Department)
Director (part-time): Mamoru Yamanaka
(Consultant of Hoya Co., Ltd.)

Director (part-time): Tetsuo Suzuki
(Honorary Chairman of Hoya Co., Ltd.)

Auditor: Isao Shirakami
Auditor (part-time): Kazuyo Yamanaka


01-27-2011, 02:29 PM   #5
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I've done some searching and I've never turned up a definitive, official answer saying that the lenses are the same.

But I've owned:
Pentax 35mm macro, 50-135mm
Tokina 35mm macro, 50-135mm, 16-50mm, 12-24mm

If there is an optical difference between the different makes of 35 and 50-135 lenses, it is only minimal. The 35 and 50-135 are both exceptionally good lenses whether by Pentax or Tokina.

There are many mechanical differences, and in my opinion the mechanical differences slightly favor Tokina. Tokina lenses are quite solid with very good mechanical feel, focal range limiters, and big manual focusing rings. Pentax lenses may have SDM (which has its downsides too), quick shift, and some have WR.

Another major difference that is inherent to the body rather than the lens is that Pentax bodies usually have SR, and the other brands using Tokina do not have SR. This is a big selling point for Pentax.

And I believe the optics are identical, though my belief is merely speculative. First, the coatings are visibly similar in their colors/appearance. Second, the 50-135 and 16-50 Tokina lenses are both marketed as having a special WR coating on their objective element, an addition that makes little sense for a non-WR lens and suggests to me that they pulled the optics from Pentax and got the WR coatings thrown in.

The best part is that for a Nikon user like myself, Tokina offers fine lenses at value prices. The Tokina 35mm macro, for example, is $270 new for Nikon, and somewhere around $500 for a Pentax 35. And the other lenses can be had for a song, too.
01-27-2011, 04:23 PM   #6
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QuoteQuote:
Tokina was founded by a group of Nikon engineers who left Nikon to concentrate on the development of high-quality zoom lenses, which were rare at the time. Originally an OEM manufacturer only, in the early 1970s they began selling lenses under their own Tokina brand.[1]

In recent years, Tokina has become a partner of Pentax, division of Hoya Corporation and jointly developed some lenses. These will be available under the Pentax and Schneider Kreuznach D-Xenon and D-Xenogon brands in Pentax K mount and under the Tokina brand for all other lens mounts. However, the research center, design and engineering teams of these two companies are completely independent.

The co-developed lenses share main optical designs but have different barrel structures and coatings. They also have some other different features. For example, the Tokina AT-X Pro 12-24mm II comes with built-in silent focusing motor, while the Pentax version has screwdrive autofocus. Another example is that Tokina AT-X Pro 16-50mm and 50-135mm have only screw-drive autofocus and no weather-sealing, but Pentax version have both features.

Another difference is the procedure for switching between manual focus and auto-focus. With Tokina's "One-touch Focus Clutch Mechanism", you move the focus ring forward to enter auto-focus mode, and backward to enter manual-focus mode. With Pentax's "Quick-Shift Focus System", introduced in early 2004 with the DA 16-45mm f/4.0, you just rotate the manual focus ring while staying in auto-focus mode. Sigma and Nikon now have systems similar to Tokina and Pentax, respectively.

As of March 2009, the six lenses co-developed and released in both Tokina and Pentax versions are the AT-X Pro 12-24mm f/4.0, AT-X Pro 16-50mm f/2.8, AT-X Pro 50-135mm f/2.8, AT-X 10-17mm f/3.5-4.5 fisheye, AT-X Pro 100mm /2.8 macro, and AT-X Pro 35mm f/2.8 macro. The last Tokina lens released before the collaboration was the 28-70mm f/2.8, in 2002. The currently available Tokina own-designed lenses are the 11-16mm f/2.8, 80-400mm f/4.5-5.6, 16.5-135mm f/3.5-5.6 and 28-80mm f/2.8.

As of February 2010, Tokina started production on its first Sony Alpha-mount lens, the AT-X 116 Pro DX 11–16 mm f/2.8.
Tokina AT-X Pro 12-24 f/4.0 lens

Hoya Corporation is the main glass supplier for Tokina, by manufacturing coated lens units according to Tokina specification and quality control standard.[1]
There has been an on-going discussion about whether or not Tokina was owned by Hoya. I think that this article from Wikipedia sheds a bit of light on that theory. The fact that Pentax owners haven't been able to purchase Tokina lenses in a K mount is apparently,because many of the Tokina lenses that they would like to buy are made by Tokina for Pentax under the Pentax flag.
01-27-2011, 04:33 PM   #7
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pentax and tokina had a cooperation about the LENS and yes they share together their knowledge.

what makes me cry hard is ....
why they still had aggrement NOT to produced tokina 50-135 in K-mount , because DA 50-135 is very far from my reach ... im jeaolus with nikon user at this terms...
01-27-2011, 10:06 PM   #8
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I think a lot of Pentax shooters would be happy to see the Tokina 11-16 f2.8 in K mount

01-27-2011, 10:09 PM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by twitch Quote
I think a lot of Pentax shooters would be happy to see the Tokina 11-16 f2.8 in K mount
+1, I'd set my DA 12-24mm aside for good for that one...
01-28-2011, 12:07 AM   #10
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What about older lenses between pentax and tokina that share the same focal lengths and apertures. How far back does this relationship go?
01-28-2011, 04:25 AM   #11
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For the majority of lenses, Pentax owns the patents on the lenses and licenses them to Tokina. Optical formulas are the same, cosmetics differ, as do coatings. The 12-24 is, I believe, the one exception -- a lens that Tokina designed and Pentax licenses.

Tokina's lenses are cheaper, because they are a third party developer, in the same boat as Sigma and Tamron. Obviously, Pentax won't let them sell lenses where Pentax holds the patents in a K mount, to under cut them. It seems like the relationship has grown apart somewhat, with both companies releasing lenses not shared with the other.
01-28-2011, 04:53 AM   #12
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I see a lot of people saying that the coatings are different.

I don't consider wikipedia to be authoritative on the issue. And though I'm not sure that the coatings are the same, I do think the issue deserves more than just an assumption that the coatings differ.

On the contrary, I believe it is more likely that the coatings are the same. If Tokina didn't have their hand in the Pentax parts bin then they would never have applied a WR coating to the 50-135. I think the fact that the WR coating is carried over is fair indicia that Tokina uses the same optics, coatings and all. This may not be true, but I think that anyone claiming the coatings are different needs to explain why Tokina would do a separate WR coating on only those models that are WR in the Pentax version. Additionally, as stated before, I find the coatings to look similar enough to my eye that I believe they are probably the same.
01-28-2011, 11:44 AM   #13
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I've also noticed that Tokina is using a DC motor in some of its zooms (like the 12-24/4 II and the new 16-28/2.8).

Wonder if it's the same one. Sure I could google the info and probably find out that way, but sometimes it's more fun just to wonder...
01-28-2011, 06:12 PM   #14
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older tokinas

What about a Tokina 35-105mm f3.5-4.3 is that going to be the same optically as the Pentax A series lens of the same name?
01-28-2011, 07:28 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by farfisa Quote
I've also noticed that Tokina is using a DC motor in some of its zooms (like the 12-24/4 II and the new 16-28/2.8).

Wonder if it's the same one. Sure I could google the info and probably find out that way, but sometimes it's more fun just to wonder...
Who knows? Neither company "makes" the motor, they buy them from a third party, so they could easily buy them from the same company, or from a different one.

From what I can tell, most of the swapping of optical formulas came prior to Hoya's purchase of Pentax.
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