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02-01-2011, 11:36 PM   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by Abstract Quote
He asked a question based on what was best for him,
That's exactly the point of the answer - such question can only be answered by him. Who else can know what is best for him, if not him?

Besides that, the question itself was lacking tact. It's like asking someone: "are your clothes worth wearing, or should I be trying another clothier". Duh, what do you expect someone to answer to that?
"Why don't you try another clothier then" doesn't sound rude to me at all.



QuoteOriginally posted by heasley Quote
I asked a very simple question.
I can ask you a few very simple questions too, the result of which would leave you much offended. The fact that the question was very simple is irrelevant.

QuoteOriginally posted by heasley Quote
I then asked if Pentax primes were worth staying with pentax for.
Try going to a Canon or Nikon forum and ask them the same simple question: "are your lenses worth staying with your system?" and see how quickly you get identified as a troll.

You don't ask a user of brand X if that brand is worth staying with. You can ask them why they picked the brand, but asking them whether it was a good choice places doubt on their already made judgement. If you don't trust their judgement, why ask for their advice?

I hope this helps you understand the reactions to your message better.

02-02-2011, 12:30 AM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Quote
That's exactly the point of the answer - such question can only be answered by him. Who else can know what is best for him, if not him?

Besides that, the question itself was lacking tact. It's like asking someone: "are your clothes worth wearing, or should I be trying another clothier". Duh, what do you expect someone to answer to that?
"Why don't you try another clothier then" doesn't sound rude to me at all.





I can ask you a few very simple questions too, the result of which would leave you much offended. The fact that the question was very simple is irrelevant.



Try going to a Canon or Nikon forum and ask them the same simple question: "are your lenses worth staying with your system?" and see how quickly you get identified as a troll.

You don't ask a user of brand X if that brand is worth staying with. You can ask them why they picked the brand, but asking them whether it was a good choice places doubt on their already made judgement. If you don't trust their judgement, why ask for their advice?

I hope this helps you understand the reactions to your message better.

or in simpler terms, it's like going to a Louis Vuitton Store and tell them in public that Michael Korrs are cheaper. even my wife will find such an act to be rude or trollish. so I can't really blame some people would answer him sarcastically although true.

with such a title and a content, it won't be a surprise if the thread would get some heat sooner or later.

but anyways, I think the thread should had been posted in a different section (non-Pentax) and rather ask what can he get from those certain Nikon lenses and samples. better yet, go to a Nikon forum and I'm sure he would get what he might be looking for.
02-02-2011, 01:41 AM - 1 Like   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Quote
That's exactly the point of the answer - such question can only be answered by him. Who else can know what is best for him, if not him?
But it makes perfect sense for him to inform himself by inviting contributions by others. The decision is still his, but he can make a better one by having seen different viewpoints.

QuoteOriginally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Quote
Try going to a Canon or Nikon forum and ask them the same simple question: "are your lenses worth staying with your system?" and see how quickly you get identified as a troll.
Are you saying posters on Canikon forums are impolite and unhelpful?

QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxor Quote
or in simpler terms, it's like going to a Louis Vuitton Store and tell them in public that Michael Korrs are cheaper.
He didn't do that. If I went in into a Loius Vuitton store asking why I should pay a premium for the products and whether they had any advantages over some competitors products and all they told me was to bugger off then I'd know what to think of them and their products.

QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxor Quote
better yet, go to a Nikon forum and I'm sure he would get what he might be looking for.
Do you think Nikonians will tell him that their lenses are crap and that he should stay with Pentax? Unlikely. It makes sense for him to ask questions in both forums but using only one wouldn't be wise, AFAIC.
02-02-2011, 11:46 AM   #49
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This is a more than reasonable question to ponder. And not an easy one to answer -- one that tempts me, as well. It's not fair to discount the optical quality of the Nikon lenses -- they're all generally well regarded. The build quality isn't bad -- nowhere near a Limited lens, certainly.

What tips the balance for me:

- Good functionality with lots of old lenses. It's certainly more pleasurable to have to work for a shot, and know the limitations (and advantages) of old (but good!) glass. It's cheaper too, of course!

- As has been pointed out -- In-body SR, especially for primes and the above mentioned old glass.

- The overall size of the package -- From the camera to the lenses, this is clearly a focus of Pentax. It matters a lot to me. More than peak optical performance does, certainly (to a point!) If they don't make the trip with me, they're not going to produce very exciting results.

- It's nice to be different. I drive an old Saab too ... so, I can't say it's a rational decision. It really is more than that though -- I do think Pentax attracts a lot of serious and focused amateurs. That is all I ever plan to be, so being a part of that "community" is a nice benefit.

If none of the above is a benefit, why choose Pentax? Switch. Be happy -- but aren't those the fundamental reasons we all chose Pentax?

Nikon has provided a lot to the serious amateur lately though, especially with the D7000. I'm sticking around though... Any buying a K-5 and an FA31; there's some commitment for you!

02-02-2011, 12:33 PM   #50
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It's clear to me that Nikon is a little worried about losing some of their user base to Pentax (as opposed to Canon, who is taking a very different approach to the whole matter).

Since Nikon has more budget primes, it does look like the better option on paper IF you plan on only buying budget primes. They also win 100% in the auto-focus arena... but Nikon's move as of late suggest that the other features of the Pentax system are threatening to them. This might not be obvious to a north american but i think it is very obvious in developing countries where these companies are in fiercer competition.

In other words, don't take my word for it, take Nikon's .
02-02-2011, 06:51 PM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Quote

I hope this helps you understand the reactions to your message better.
But the responses to my message where overwhelmingly constructive and positive with the exception of 1 or 2 responses.

I hear what your saying regarding questioning everyone's decision to buy pentax. I guess I asked people who had stuck with Pentax because many of them would have asked themselves the same question and justified staying with or choosing Pentax.

When you've got a wife, children and a mortgage spending money on photography gear can be a very guilty pleasure.
02-02-2011, 10:51 PM   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by heasley Quote
But the responses to my message where overwhelmingly constructive and positive with the exception of 1 or 2 responses.
That's a very good question and I don't have an answer for it. I often wondered why 10+ page long threads are built starting from a vague question coming from a person who recently joined and who doesn't participate ever again in the thread. I can speculate on the reasons, but the best answer can only be provided by those who do respond. Maybe people don't know what a troll is anymore - hint: it's not an insult.

I can only explain why the *first* answer you got was the way it was.

QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
But it makes perfect sense for him to inform himself by inviting contributions by others. The decision is still his, but he can make a better one by having seen different viewpoints.
That is only valuable if additional information is provided about what the poster values in a photographic system. Otherwise it's just inviting speculation.
02-02-2011, 11:26 PM   #53
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You're so right! It is COMPLETELY SUBJECTIVE. I hear some people love to use really soft lenses.

I've got some advice for you Laurentiu. If you see someone start a thread and you don't agree with it, simply ignore it and keep your negativity out of it.

It's plain mean spirited to post a comment in someone's thread telling them they're a troll and their well meant question is insulting.


Last edited by heasley; 02-03-2011 at 04:17 AM. Reason: regreted post
02-03-2011, 04:15 AM   #54
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QuoteOriginally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Quote
Maybe people don't know what a troll is anymore - hint: it's not an insult.
Of course "troll" has a negative connotation. The only case where it is not an insult is when it is an accurate description.

QuoteOriginally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Quote
That is only valuable if additional information is provided about what the poster values in a photographic system.
It's the OP's job to judge which information is useful to them and which is not. The answer cannot be -- as it has been suggested -- to not provide information at all.
02-03-2011, 01:16 PM   #55
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QuoteOriginally posted by heasley Quote
[Deleted]

You're so right! It is COMPLETELY SUBJECTIVE. I hear some people love to use really soft lenses.

I've got some advice for you Laurentiu. If you see someone start a thread and you don't agree with it, simply ignore it and keep your negativity out of it.

It's plain mean spirited to post a comment in someone's thread telling them they're a troll and their well meant question is insulting.
I got some advise for you too heasly.

If you ever start a thread that is subject to subjectivity, then please expect that other people can also add their own subjectivity to the topic. Otherwise, simply keep your subjectivity to yourself.
02-03-2011, 01:58 PM   #56
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QuoteOriginally posted by Eagle_Friends Quote
I got some advise for you too heasly.

If you ever start a thread that is subject to subjectivity, then please expect that other people can also add their own subjectivity to the topic. Otherwise, simply keep your subjectivity to yourself.
*Sigh*

All I expect is politeness.
02-03-2011, 02:21 PM   #57
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Heasley don't let it get you down, most people here are rather nice and helpful. Hope you choose whats best for you.
02-03-2011, 08:07 PM   #58
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QuoteOriginally posted by Abstract Quote
Heasley don't let it get you down, most people here are rather nice and helpful. Hope you choose whats best for you.
Thank you.

For the most part the responses have been very helpful. I have a better appreciation in the quality gap between the low end Nikon primes and the Pentax limited primes.

Also I have a better appreciation for the SR technology in Pentax bodies.

I love my 77mm and 43mm limited and might even sell my FA 50mm and Sigma 20mm 1.8 EX and invest in the 31mm limited before upgrading my body.

Thank you again to all the helpful posts.
02-03-2011, 09:48 PM   #59
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QuoteOriginally posted by heasley Quote
...

I love my 77mm and 43mm limited and might even sell my FA 50mm and Sigma 20mm 1.8 EX and invest in the 31mm limited before upgrading my body.

Thank you again to all the helpful posts.
I think that sounds like a good plan. I never warmed up to that Sigma 20 1.8, and on aps-c I think you'll find the FA 31ltd more useful than the FA 50 for a lot of applications. Plus, then you'll own all three FA Limiteds, something most Nikonians who know a bit about photography will secretly envy you for.

.
02-04-2011, 03:09 PM   #60
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QuoteOriginally posted by heasley Quote
I love my 77mm and 43mm limited and might even sell my FA 50mm and Sigma 20mm 1.8 EX and invest in the 31mm limited before upgrading my body.
I don't know the Sigma 20/1.8. I have a Sigma 28/1.8 EX MACRO which is a great lens (sharp, smooth bokeh, not quite macro but very good "close focusing"). On APS-C it is a true "normal" lens (focal length = sensor diagonal).

I wouldn't get rid off the FA 50/1.4 too quickly, unless you don't really use it. I think it has some of the FA limited genes and can yield great portraits if you shoot at and above f/2.8. I came to form the opinion that it has at least a tiny bit of "pixie dust".
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