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03-03-2011, 09:01 AM   #76
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxor Quote
actually there are a few considerations that would influence the price of an AF Samyang.

1.> price of equivalent AF wide lens (28mm-35mm) - except for the FA31, Pentax and Sigma lenses are price from $50-$200 (kitlens), Sigma 28/1.8 ($150-$250), FA28/2.8 ($200), Pentax 35/2.4 ($200), FA35 ($350), DA35/2.8 ($450), Sigma 30/1.4 ($500), and fast wide zooms ($400-$600).
They're not going to base their business model and pricing off of a slew of lenses that are discontinued and a kit lens is not competition for a prime MF lens.

QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxor Quote
the point here is that Samyang, eventhough it is trying to target a niche market should be pricing their lenses strategically in a way that does not make it much money for less capability or less money for less capability. this is the burden that every new player in the lens manufacturing market undergoes. I would say go cheap first and build your reputation before going overboard. build your market or atleast gain a substantial number of fans before pushing the red button.

as far as pricing for a Samyang AF 35/1.4 goes, $400-$450 would be generally acceptable as long as it's performance is great overall. for anyone who needs a fast 35mm lens, this is a great price for a niche market that is building. if it turns out to be really a marvelous lens, they could bump up their prices for $550. my only complaint is, I don't need an excellent fast 35. what I need is an excellent fast 28mm. if Samyang could build one a whole lot better than the existing Sigma 28 and Sigma 30, I would gladly pay for $600 off the bat. that would give the FA31 some serious competition.
They're not basing their success off Pentax. A 35mm 1.4 that can cover full frame in that price range is huge for Nikon and Canon. Especially on the heals of their successful reviews of the 14mm (which easily was selling at $400) and 85mm. Due to it being manual focus, they can easily make mounts for all brands. I would not be surprised if a Pentax mount were not available if it were AF.

QuoteOriginally posted by the swede Quote
Any pictures taken with this lens yet?
Lens is not released, yet.

03-03-2011, 09:08 AM   #77
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Hard, easy, impossible to implement AF? To me, it really doesn't matter. Either their product needs to be so compelling that I cant skip it, and there is no AF option, or I'll pick an AF option.
03-03-2011, 09:12 AM   #78
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clinton Quote
Hard, easy, impossible to implement AF? To me, it really doesn't matter. Either their product needs to be so compelling that I cant skip it, and there is no AF option, or I'll pick an AF option.
Well, we don't really know yet, do we?

Assuming street price is around $400, and the review data is as good as the 85 & 14, is that compelling enough for you?
03-03-2011, 09:37 AM   #79
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rory Quote
Well, we don't really know yet, do we?

Assuming street price is around $400, and the review data is as good as the 85 & 14, is that compelling enough for you?
don't forget the fisheye, which is a really great lens also.

I am seriously looking at the 14mm as I have no MF lenses below24mm at present, exept the 8mm fisheye, a 14mm woud really fit in my kit.

The 35mm at F1.4 would also be a great addition as I have no 35mm AT ALL in my K mount kit. (i do have the S-M-C Tak 35F2 however That would be a great reference lens to cmpare against)

03-03-2011, 02:04 PM   #80
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QuoteOriginally posted by paperbag846 Quote
Hey axl I think you are being a little rude.

Even if the lens is 1.4 that does not mean it does not have to have autofocus?

Autofocus is a damn useful feature even if you are a pro manual focuser.

I'm not sure why the zeiss lenses have no AF but I'm going to guess that it would be entirely POSSIBLE.

I can respect the need of some people for an f1.4 lens but it's not like all 1.4 lenses are manual focus...I was not calling the speed of the lens into question.

"we all know you struggle with focus" - yikes. I wasn't aware. I suppose I'm not man enough to hang with your crew...

I brought up the DA 40 because someone said that AF at 35mm was not incredibly useful, which I would have to disagree with...
The point is, if you find 500 USD steep for a MF 35/1,4, how much would you expect an AF version to cost? AF makes the lens mechanics more complicated and expensive or it needs to be build very cheaply. In both cases, you are much better off with a cheap (or at least affordable) very fast MF lens.

Lenses are always compromises between different parameters, like (not complete):
  • cost
  • optical performance
  • max. aperture
  • built quality
  • size and weight
  • bells and whistles included

So, the Samyang offers a very good speed at an affordable price. Optical performance is unknown as yet. If we expect a good performance, the air gets thin in our compromise formula.

Ben
03-03-2011, 07:22 PM   #81
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ben_Edict Quote
The point is, if you find 500 USD steep for a MF 35/1,4, how much would you expect an AF version to cost? AF makes the lens mechanics more complicated and expensive or it needs to be build very cheaply. In both cases, you are much better off with a cheap (or at least affordable) very fast MF lens.

Lenses are always compromises between different parameters, like (not complete):
  • cost
  • optical performance
  • max. aperture
  • built quality
  • size and weight
  • bells and whistles included

So, the Samyang offers a very good speed at an affordable price. Optical performance is unknown as yet. If we expect a good performance, the air gets thin in our compromise formula.

Ben
if it beats the FA31 in optical performance, then it is worth the money. anyway, as I mentioned already, AF implementation cost will depend on whether it is a borrowed AF mechanism or unique. I'm not sure how difficult that would be, but Sigma, Tokina, and Tamron don't have any difficulty on old AF systems. honestly, I dont see any real complexity or cost into building these age old AF systems unless those are USM, HSM, SDM, SWM type. not to mention the inclusion of VR, SR, OS, IS. so really, when we talk about complexity, Samyang hasn't done one yet.
03-03-2011, 10:11 PM   #82
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ben_Edict Quote
The point is, if you find 500 USD steep for a MF 35/1,4, how much would you expect an AF version to cost? AF makes the lens mechanics more complicated and expensive or it needs to be build very cheaply. In both cases, you are much better off with a cheap (or at least affordable) very fast MF lens.

Lenses are always compromises between different parameters, like (not complete):
  • cost
  • optical performance
  • max. aperture
  • built quality
  • size and weight
  • bells and whistles included

So, the Samyang offers a very good speed at an affordable price. Optical performance is unknown as yet. If we expect a good performance, the air gets thin in our compromise formula.

Ben
Ben, I agree lenses are compromises--every purchase in life is. Surely a 35 f 1.4 is not an average hunk of glass, and is going to cost some $$. But I see a lot of AF glass near and around this focal length and speed, which goes for less or a little more than $500. This is why I think the Samyang is probably priced too high-- if it stays @ $500.

Though different focal lengths, Sigma is making an excellent 50mm lens right now--it is thought of highly by many: for example: Sigma 50mm f/1.4: A new standard?: Digital Photography Review

I would spend $500 for a good copy, because in portraits, I could put the speed & AF to good use. Sigma also makes a 30mm F1.4 EX DC HSM (AF Lens), which goes closer to $400, than $500. It is not as good as their 50 1.4, but Samyang will need to produce some awesome IQ before I spend $500 for their 35 f 1.4. I think Pentaxor has set the bar where it needs to be: the Samyang, to earn its $500 price, had better perform up there with the Fa 31. This is my opinion.

To be honest, for all of us here in K-mount-land, I hope Samyang does, but I am not going to hold my breath.
03-03-2011, 10:20 PM   #83
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rory Quote
Lens is not released, yet.
According to releases from the manufacturer I've read, the lens is available in limited release starting a few days ago. Sorry, I can't remember where i read that or give you a link. And I may be slightly off on my dates, but I could have sworn it was due out march 1.
The ShaShinki site states "1~2 weeks for delivery (depending on supplier stock)" which says to me it is not actually in their warehouses but a drop ship from Samyang. Whether or not that means it is truly available or not I don't know. I think it would be odd for a retailer to offer a product that was not available in the time they specify, so I'd say test shots and detailed reviews are not far off. I'm sure there's someone out there with $525.00 burning a hole in their pocket with enough curiosity to buy it.

QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxor Quote
if it beats the FA31 in optical performance, then it is worth the money.
Actually I'd say if it 'meets' or even approaches the optical performance of the FA31 limited it's worth the money. Personally, I'm all over it if it's anywhere near the FA31. Of course we're talking about different optical designs, different coatings, and different quality controls, so who knows. It's definitely unlikely to have the mythical "pixie dust" of the FA31. I've heard the "pixie dust" is added to the FA31 in a patented manufacturing process performed by Shinto Monks in a secret monastery deep in the heart of the mountains of Japam so it's unlikely the same will apply for a Korean lens.
Regardless, the reason I've been watching this lens and anxiously awaiting it's release is I've wanted a FAST 35mm prime for a while. MF or AF. What I want is a 50mm equivalent FOV and 35mm fits the bill nicely. Hopefully the price comes down a bit but I guess that will depend on demand. If it turns out to have AMAZING IQ, the current price could go up. Then again, there aren't a whole lot of so called "professional" photographers I've met that use MF lenses. I guess the MF market is aimed towards us enthusiasts and amateurs. Meaning even if it's amazing, it could very well drop in price. Many people will pick convenience over performance.

03-03-2011, 10:30 PM   #84
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You can't compare a cost/performance basis between a 35mm and a 50mm. 50mm lenses are traditionally the easiest and cheapest lenses to manufacture.
03-03-2011, 10:41 PM   #85
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rory Quote
You can't compare a cost/performance basis between a 35mm and a 50mm. 50mm lenses are traditionally the easiest and cheapest lenses to manufacture.
I didn't say anything about cost / performance of a 50mm lens. I said I wanted a 50mm FOV (field of view). Remember the Crop factor. My 50mm 1.4 give me an FOV of 75mm. Not the best in cramped spaces as I recently found out in my 3 day stay in the hospital with my wife after her c-section. But that's beside the point. A 35mm lens will give me the field of view of a 50mm lens. That is the focal length, or should I say field of view I liked best on film. Yes, a 50mm lens is easier to make then a 35mm lens, but again, I said nothing about that and it has no bearing on what I want other then the final price of the product.
03-03-2011, 11:20 PM   #86
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I guess it's cheaper for people to have conversations about the lenses they won't buy than about the lenses they did buy.
03-03-2011, 11:25 PM   #87
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxor Quote
if it beats the FA31 in optical performance, then it is worth the money.
To paraphrase farfisa from a similar 85/1.4 thread: If the Samyang 35/1.4 is as good as the FA31, I'll buy two and wear them on my nipples.
03-04-2011, 12:03 AM   #88
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clinton Quote
To paraphrase farfisa from a similar 85/1.4 thread: If the Samyang 35/1.4 is as good as the FA31, I'll buy two and wear them on my nipples.
Well i have been waiting for the 35mm f/1.4 as i believe resolution, sharpness and bokeh are all likely to rival the FA31, but for less than half the price. FA31 will always be nicer, more expensive have more pixie dust with AF and be available in Silver. But get those nipples ready...
03-04-2011, 12:15 AM   #89
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clinton Quote
To paraphrase farfisa from a similar 85/1.4 thread: If the Samyang 35/1.4 is as good as the FA31, I'll buy two and wear them on my nipples.
03-04-2011, 01:25 AM   #90
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clinton Quote
If the Samyang 35/1.4 is as good as the FA31, I'll buy two and wear them on my nipples.
Bad luck for those with three nipples. That gets more expensive then...
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