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03-01-2011, 10:56 AM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by gnaztee Quote
I don't find it frustrating, but I used to (when I thought I had to capture every opportunity I saw!). Since you mentioned you weren't worried about trying to get every shot, I think you could handle it. Personally, when I'm walking around a city I just don't like the size of a zoom on my camera (this is not an issue for some, and the 12-24 isn't big, just big relative to the Ltds, which I'm now used to).

I typically have the DA 21 on the camera, as I think that's a great "do-everything" length for city walking and shooting on the go. Then, if I see something I have to photograph and I need another length, I'll throw on one of the others, maybe pull out the Joby. The 12-24 would serve the same purpose as having the 15/21 (more convenient), but I just don't like walking around with that size. However, I LOVE the 12-24 and use it all the time when I'm doing landscape or travelling by car and bulk isn't an issue.

Oh, and on the IQ difference between 15/21 and 12-24, the primes have a bit more uniqueness in their rendering, but sharpness/contrast is equalled by the zoom. So I wouldn't worry about losing IQ by going with the zoom.
This probably wouldn't apply to either one of you, but recently I went to an outdoor ice sculpture show. The weather was 10 degrees Fahrenheit, and I had brought just the DA15 and FA43. Having recently sold off my DA*16-50 (which I hadn't hardly used once in the last year), THAT day I had seller's remorse! My fingers were already so stiff and practically numb that lens changes were a pain in the butt. So Gnaztee, in general I agree with you, but I just thought I'd share that experience. (Plus I still recommend the DA12-24! )

03-01-2011, 11:02 AM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by NeverSatisfied Quote
This probably wouldn't apply to either one of you, but recently I went to an outdoor ice sculpture show. The weather was 10 degrees Fahrenheit, and I had brought just the DA15 and FA43. Having recently sold off my DA*16-50 (which I hadn't hardly used once in the last year), THAT day I had seller's remorse! My fingers were already so stiff and practically numb that lens changes were a pain in the butt. So Gnaztee, in general I agree with you, but I just thought I'd share that experience. (Plus I still recommend the DA12-24! )
Yeah I likely won't be shooting in 10 degree weather, but if I was, I'd consider a zoom... One of my upcoming trips is to Chicago, but fortunately, it'll be in June
03-01-2011, 11:15 AM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by Antifreez Quote
That lens combination would be perfect for me in covering the range I need in just 2 (great) lenses. If I didn't already have the DA 40 I might think about the Tammy in addition to a DA12-24. I'd just hate to cancel out the only lens I currently have outside of my kit. The DA 40 would still have its place because of its size and how special the images are, but in reality I don't think it would get a lot of use anymore. There's also the size issue again of the 2 zooms vs. ltd's which I need to contemplate.
Size is a hard thing to quantify.

I never take my entire kit when I am shooting (3 film bodies, 3 DSLRs and 33 lenses) but only a small portion of them.

typically I would travel for unspecified city and country shooting (assume country = wildlife/sports) with minimum 3 zooms and 1 or 2 teleconverters, specifically sigma 10-20, tamron 28-75 and sigma 70-200 plus the 1.4 and 2x TCs. this plus 2 bodies covers everything in a hurry and fits, (dismounted lenses) in the micro trekker 200 backpack.

If I know I am city bound, I ditch the 70-200 and the 2 TCs, and will add an 8mm fisheye plus either my 135F2.5 or my 85F1.4 plus 1.7x af tc. Lately I am favouring the 85 plus TC for versitility.

this all still fits in the micro trekker, but when out and walking about, I often leave some in the hotel and take 2 bodies and 2 lenses (the second lens/body are in a shoulder bag just big enough to hold the K10D and tammy), or 1 body and 3 lenses (the two spare lenses are in the same small sholder bag.

My logic is that when travelling you always have one camera in your hadn, so your day bag just needs to carry the other body/lens or spare lenses, not everything.

Lately I have taken the approach of 2 different bags on a single trip, one to carry everything I want to take, and a second much much smaller bag for when I get there.

For you, the DA40 still might get use, as it is faster than the zooms, that's what I like about the 85F1.4, I take it out for street candids, the 40 is not as long but you can have a lot of fun with it. Same holds for night shots, it would be good.

Any way, you need to think about how to do what you want to with your kit.

You know my humble opinion, get the 12-24 (or similar UWA zoom) and ultimately you may want to get something faster to replace the kit, but it is not as urgent as covering the UWA range properly
03-01-2011, 11:36 AM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lowell Goudge Quote
Size is a hard thing to quantify.

I never take my entire kit when I am shooting (3 film bodies, 3 DSLRs and 33 lenses) but only a small portion of them.

typically I would travel for unspecified city and country shooting (assume country = wildlife/sports) with minimum 3 zooms and 1 or 2 teleconverters, specifically sigma 10-20, tamron 28-75 and sigma 70-200 plus the 1.4 and 2x TCs. this plus 2 bodies covers everything in a hurry and fits, (dismounted lenses) in the micro trekker 200 backpack.

If I know I am city bound, I ditch the 70-200 and the 2 TCs, and will add an 8mm fisheye plus either my 135F2.5 or my 85F1.4 plus 1.7x af tc. Lately I am favouring the 85 plus TC for versitility.

this all still fits in the micro trekker, but when out and walking about, I often leave some in the hotel and take 2 bodies and 2 lenses (the second lens/body are in a shoulder bag just big enough to hold the K10D and tammy), or 1 body and 3 lenses (the two spare lenses are in the same small sholder bag.

My logic is that when travelling you always have one camera in your hadn, so your day bag just needs to carry the other body/lens or spare lenses, not everything.

Lately I have taken the approach of 2 different bags on a single trip, one to carry everything I want to take, and a second much much smaller bag for when I get there.

For you, the DA40 still might get use, as it is faster than the zooms, that's what I like about the 85F1.4, I take it out for street candids, the 40 is not as long but you can have a lot of fun with it. Same holds for night shots, it would be good.

Any way, you need to think about how to do what you want to with your kit.

You know my humble opinion, get the 12-24 (or similar UWA zoom) and ultimately you may want to get something faster to replace the kit, but it is not as urgent as covering the UWA range properly
Holy crap. That's quite a kit.

Thanks for your feedback. Perhaps in a couple years I'll be able to get the K5 and be able to bring two bodies around. That would definitely change things up for me.

The DA 40 ltd. is only a f2.8, which is why I feel the Tammy 28-75 largely cancels it out. The DA 40 has it's own qualities that would certainly justify keeping it (like for street candids as you mention), but I feel it would realistically get less use. I agree that I'm currently in most need for a wide angle. The other element lacking in my kit is speed, so maybe next year I go for the FA77

03-01-2011, 11:38 AM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by Antifreez Quote
I know what you mean about ANY zoom feeling big after getting used to a Ltd. mounted on your camera. It had to be pointed out to me above that neither the 12-24 or 55-300 are really that big relative to a lot of others.

This is my first DSLR and I've only taken a couple trips with my current set up. I know I'll have to figure out what works for me but until then I like to hear how others approach their travels.

Beyong size and prime vs. zooms, there are the intangibles you mention like rendering and it makes these decisions all that much harder. Time to go back to PPG and look through more images.

One question for you though, if you're on a road trip and see something you'd shoot at 15mm, do you grab your 12-24 or DA 15?
Ha! Unfortunately I can't even give a simple answer to that question. I don't have a full range of accessories (filters and such) for all of my lenses, so sometimes I have to pick and choose based on situation. A couple of examples:

A) Last November we went to Zion and hiked the Narrows. We were in dry suits, with a rented drybag to carry the camera. Since I knew I wanted wide shots, long exposures for moving water, and had limited space in the drybag, I took the K-7 and DA 15 with a tripod. I have a 10-stop ND filter for the DA15, but not for the 12-24. The 12-24 would have been heavier for the 6-mile hike, and would not have easily fit in the bag. Otherwise, because it was landscape, I would have preferred the 12-24.

B) Unfortunately, when traveling I don't always have enough time to go as slow as I'd like to set up photographs, so versatility is nice. Two places around the UT/AZ border (Bryce and Grand Canyons) provide limited space for moving with feet, incredible vistas, and great sunrises/sunsets. In the 30 minutes of (hopefully) excellent light at dawn and dusk, I sometimes find multiple compositions I want to capture. With that limited time, changing lenses is cumbersome, and I still may not have the focal length I want because I can't move closer to the edge of the canyon. That's when I like to use the 12-24.

I wouldn't get too hung up on "rendering" (even though I used the term ). If you like the zoom versatility and don't mind the extra several ounces, I can't imagine you'll be disappointed in any way by the 12-24.
03-01-2011, 01:30 PM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by gnaztee Quote
Ha! Unfortunately I can't even give a simple answer to that question. I don't have a full range of accessories (filters and such) for all of my lenses, so sometimes I have to pick and choose based on situation. A couple of examples:

A) Last November we went to Zion and hiked the Narrows. We were in dry suits, with a rented drybag to carry the camera. Since I knew I wanted wide shots, long exposures for moving water, and had limited space in the drybag, I took the K-7 and DA 15 with a tripod. I have a 10-stop ND filter for the DA15, but not for the 12-24. The 12-24 would have been heavier for the 6-mile hike, and would not have easily fit in the bag. Otherwise, because it was landscape, I would have preferred the 12-24.

B) Unfortunately, when traveling I don't always have enough time to go as slow as I'd like to set up photographs, so versatility is nice. Two places around the UT/AZ border (Bryce and Grand Canyons) provide limited space for moving with feet, incredible vistas, and great sunrises/sunsets. In the 30 minutes of (hopefully) excellent light at dawn and dusk, I sometimes find multiple compositions I want to capture. With that limited time, changing lenses is cumbersome, and I still may not have the focal length I want because I can't move closer to the edge of the canyon. That's when I like to use the 12-24.

I wouldn't get too hung up on "rendering" (even though I used the term ). If you like the zoom versatility and don't mind the extra several ounces, I can't imagine you'll be disappointed in any way by the 12-24.
Your response makes me realize that all this really boils down to not which one of these to get, but which one to get first! Eventually, they'll both probably become part of my kit.

Thanks for your detailed feedback.
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