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03-03-2011, 04:49 AM - 2 Likes   #61
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QuoteOriginally posted by twitch Quote
Anyone not a photography enthusiast would find it hilarious that 2 lenses as good as the 70 & 77, and as close to each other in performance, could be the subject of arguments and insults.
As university president Woodrow Wilson said, the reason academic battles are so bitter and vicious is that the stakes are so low.

03-03-2011, 05:03 AM   #62
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QuoteOriginally posted by andi Quote
Why is my post more rude than his accusation that I'm talking BS without trying neither lens out? Seriously.
Well, if you canít see the difference...

QuoteOriginally posted by andi Quote
If you don't see the difference (not a bad thing, most people don't), that means you can be happy shooting something simpler - you won't see the difference. How complicated is this? And why is this obvious statement rude?
On problem is that "this obvious statement" obviously isnít obvious. What you say seems to imply that a DSLR with a DA70 is so bad itís on the level with a P&S. The DA70, is it really that bad? If you donít see the difference between a P&S and the DA70, then... trust me. But I donít think you really mean that, so what you are saying must have another meaning. The obvious is that you implicitly imply that those people that either does not see much difference between the 70 and 77, or if they see a difference still prefer the 70, are so hopeless, blind, stupid or whatever in your eyes, that they are not "worthy" of using a DSLR.
03-03-2011, 05:11 AM   #63
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxor Quote
well, his bald looks pretty purplish.
Only at 100% crop, and minor at that. If you are going to pixel peep everything you will find faults everywhere. I have a 10 X 16 of this framed and the only pf that can be noticed at normal viewing distance is a bit around the sprial spring of his sketch pad.

NaCl(what you look for is what you find)H2O
03-03-2011, 05:30 AM   #64
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QuoteOriginally posted by selar Quote
The flowers look pretty purplish as well.
First of all the complaint was "The problem with the FA 77 is PF that clings to the bokeh of the OOF specular highlights" the flowers are not specular highlights. Besides they were rather "purplish" or at least dark pink. As I said above I have a 10 x 16 print and under normal viewing conditions (in other words not at a 3 inch distance with jewelers loup) the only noticeable pf is on the spring of the artist's sketch pad. If you want to view a 100% crop you will see some pf around the artist's head, some in the hand holding the sketch book and some in the reflection of his sketching hand in his sunglasses. Even at 100% tho, what you perceive as "purplish" is actually shadow of dark pink.

NaCl("yes I went over it at 200% with a magnifying glass and found 17 different instances of pf" --- sheesh! )H2O


Last edited by NaClH2O; 03-03-2011 at 05:32 AM. Reason: spelling and added the bit about his left hand
03-03-2011, 06:35 AM   #65
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Of all of the DA limited - FA limited comparisons, the 70 versus 77 comparison is the closest. Of course there are differences, but they are small in the whole scheme of things. The biggest difference is probably the way that they render colors. There are also little differences in the way they handle, but overall, they are quite close. I can understand someone preferring the 77, but there are plenty of reasons to prefer the DA 70 as well.
03-03-2011, 08:43 AM   #66
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Of all of the DA limited - FA limited comparisons, the 70 versus 77 comparison is the closest. Of course there are differences, but they are small in the whole scheme of things. The biggest difference is probably the way that they render colors. There are also little differences in the way they handle, but overall, they are quite close. I can understand someone preferring the 77, but there are plenty of reasons to prefer the DA 70 as well.
I think the bigger problem is that I can see wanting both.

There are people here who have a dozen 50's with fewer differences. (of course, 50's are much more affordable, but a dozen 50's can cost more than a 77 and a 70).
03-03-2011, 12:44 PM   #67
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QuoteOriginally posted by NaClH2O Quote
First of all the complaint was "The problem with the FA 77 is PF that clings to the bokeh of the OOF specular highlights" the flowers are not specular highlights. Besides they were rather "purplish" or at least dark pink. As I said above I have a 10 x 16 print and under normal viewing conditions (in other words not at a 3 inch distance with jewelers loup) the only noticeable pf is on the spring of the artist's sketch pad. If you want to view a 100% crop you will see some pf around the artist's head, some in the hand holding the sketch book and some in the reflection of his sketching hand in his sunglasses. Even at 100% tho, what you perceive as "purplish" is actually shadow of dark pink.

NaCl("yes I went over it at 200% with a magnifying glass and found 17 different instances of pf" --- sheesh! )H2O
I guess I'm not sure, but I had interpreted the comments regarding the head and flowers being purple as jokes!
03-03-2011, 02:21 PM   #68
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QuoteOriginally posted by sewebster Quote
I guess I'm not sure, but I had interpreted the comments regarding the head and flowers being purple as jokes!
Me too!

03-03-2011, 03:08 PM   #69
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Contentious thread I see. To the OP, you'd be better off buying a DA70 first, see how you get on. If you like it keep it, otherwise sell it on and look for the FA77.
Regarding the 77s PF issue, I've seen it on my own shots, it will happen @ wider than f/2.4 and shooting high contrast images, i.e. a tree banch against a white sky, its easily fixed with pp and once you understand what the variables are you either work around or give yourself 5 -10 mins pp work afterwards.
My own opinion is that the FA77 can pull out images that the 70 is not capable of, the 70 is an easier lens to like but if you take time with the 77 and figure out what makes it tick then you will not look at anything else in this focal range. Each to his / her own though

S!
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03-03-2011, 04:22 PM   #70
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QuoteOriginally posted by robbiec Quote
Contentious thread I see. To the OP, you'd be better off buying a DA70 first, see how you get on. If you like it keep it, otherwise sell it on and look for the FA77.
Regarding the 77s PF issue, I've seen it on my own shots, it will happen @ wider than f/2.4 and shooting high contrast images, i.e. a tree banch against a white sky, its easily fixed with pp and once you understand what the variables are you either work around or give yourself 5 -10 mins pp work afterwards.
My own opinion is that the FA77 can pull out images that the 70 is not capable of, the 70 is an easier lens to like but if you take time with the 77 and figure out what makes it tick then you will not look at anything else in this focal range. Each to his / her own though

S!
Robbie
This may explain why I don't see PF much. My copy may as well have a fixed aperture because I shoot it at f/2.4 about 98% of the time as I consider this to be the lens' sweet spot. Same with my DA*55 and f/2.0.
03-03-2011, 04:59 PM   #71
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I was wondering this very same question for a while myself. I would like to add my experiences to the post.

The Pentax Forum (showroom in Tokyo) does a lens rental event. Basically you can rent a couple of lenses for free for two hours. I rented the 70 and the 77 to see which I liked more for the kind of photography I like. I looked at the pictures and I think I've settled on the 70 although it is a hard choice. The price is great and I really liked how the pictures turned out. Also since it was a little wider this is a plus for me. I like to shoot pictures in cramped little narrow alleys.

Bokeh Comparison - Unfortunately it didn't dawn on me to take a similar picture to number 02 with the 70mm until after I got home. Boy was I kicking myself. But shot number 01 has bokeh in the background. In this comparison I think the 77 is pretty nice. I would liked to have seen the same scene done by the 70mm.
70mm


77mm


Portrait Comparison - These were taken from the street peering into an eatery. Here I like the 70 better. I don't know how to explain it but I just like how it is a little darker and it isn't as warm. It seems to me the 70 is a little cooler. For these types of portraits going into the shops I think I'll go with the 70. Note: I did have to take a couple steps back to get the same kind of framing for the 77.
70mm


77mm


I also noticed something else. Pretty much for all my shots the camera was making used f2.5 with the 77mm and f2.4 with the 70mm. The 70mm pretty much always used 800iso and the 77mm used 200/400/800 inconsistently. Unfortunately I only had 2 hours to work with and I wish I had more time to play around with the lenses and camera settings. I think the next time they do the rentals (in the summer I think) I'll definitely know what to do for better testing. Hope this helps.

(Apologies for such a big post. Is there a way to format the pictures side by side?)
03-03-2011, 07:33 PM   #72
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QuoteOriginally posted by sewebster Quote
I guess I'm not sure, but I had interpreted the comments regarding the head and flowers being purple as jokes!
well, it's a lil bit of both serious and joke actually. but anyways, it's nice for saltwater to acknowledge some PF, especially the sketchpad spring. the bald head caught my attention since it is just too shiny to ignore.
03-03-2011, 10:55 PM   #73
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QuoteOriginally posted by pentup Quote
... Anyway, I returned mine because the focusing ring was horribly loose, and for the money, I wasn't that impressed with the build quality. It was assembled in Vietnam; I don't know if that was part of the problem. I'd really like to have a 70. For portraits it's fast enough for me.
For the record, the 70 is also made in Vietnam...
03-04-2011, 05:03 PM   #74
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QuoteOriginally posted by andi Quote
If you don't see the difference (not a bad thing, most people don't),
that means you can be happy shooting something simpler - you won't see
the difference. How complicated is this? And why is this obvious statement rude?
It's rude because you think your statement is obvious.

I don't recommend being presumptuous about anyone's credentials and photographic capacities simply because their preferences aren't in direct alignment with your own. Certainly telling someone to give up and step down to a P&S because they prefer using x lens over y lens and therefore understand nothing about image quality is extremely insulting, especially to a professional photographer whose needs and style you know nothing about.

---

So anyway, reading this thread has really made my choice between the 70 and 77 even harder! Alas!
03-04-2011, 05:10 PM   #75
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Anyone who has a hard time deciding between the two, and cannot simply try them both out.
Try and look at as many pictures as you that have been taken with both lenses. That can help alot.

The DA LTD club is a great place and so is the FA LTD club thread
Or even flickr or the PPG
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