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03-07-2011, 01:16 PM   #91
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In the old days the "classic" focal length for portraits was 80-105mm. On Pentax, this is about 53-70mm. So, your 58 fits in there.

If you like the result with what you have there is no need to fill the gap, unless there are other considerations.


Last edited by SpecialK; 03-07-2011 at 03:58 PM.
03-07-2011, 01:38 PM   #92
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QuoteOriginally posted by SpecialK Quote
In the old days the "classic" focal length for portraits was 80-105mm. On Pentax, this is about 53-70mm. So, your 58 fits in there.

If you like the result m what you have there is no need to fill the gap, unless there are other considerations.
Thanks, that is pretty much what I think. The only "other considerations" are two. First, that I've been buying all my lenses (save one) so they can be used on a full frame Pentax if they ever give us one. At that point, the gap between 58mm and 90mm seems a little more significant.

The other reason is, I suspect, LBA. I know of a Voightlander 75mm that is available, which if I acquired, would leave me just one short of having the whole set. I've been trying to talk myself into it, but my commitment to having only lenses I need is trying to make me be practical.
03-07-2011, 01:56 PM   #93
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I haven't sat down and pixel peeped but I definately think there is a significant difference in the way the two lenses render. I can nearly always tell which one of my shots are with the FA77 as they're very distinctive to my eye.

One final point in the FA77's favour - it is just plain sexy!
03-07-2011, 02:01 PM   #94
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
As for Pentax ripping people off, you, as a consumer get to decide if the product is worth the money. If you don't, and still buy it, then you are ripping yourself off.
I used a verbal shortcut because I thought it was clear what I meant. Here's the long version: "Is Pentax attempting to rip off people and is Pentax succeeding to rip off people who trust the company to provide value for money?"

Let's say a cancer patient approaches a doctor and the latter recommends homoeopathy as an effective treatment which unlike chemotherapy has no side effects. That patient trusts the doctor and then dies (because in this case no miraculous self-healing made it possible to allow believers in homoeopathy claim another homoeopathy success). Do you only blame the patient? Or is the doctor to blame as well? Isn't even the attempt to make someone do the wrong thing ethically wrong?

So as far as I'm concerned, Pentax would be wrong to overcharge people if the FA 77 had no advantage over the DA 70. Let me add that I don't think that the premise applies. I'd prefer the FA 77 for a number of reasons.

Let me also add that I know that many don't share my postulate for business ethics. I understand that manufacturers are not well-fare organisations, that there is a law of diminishing returns, etc., but I personally stay away from companies that I believe to be disingenuous in one way or the other.

03-07-2011, 02:05 PM   #95
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QuoteOriginally posted by les3547 Quote
I have a question that is somewhat related to this thread (though not really), but I don't want to start a new thread just to ask it.

What is it all you 70mm or 77mm users like about that focal length? Before you answer, let me complicate the question a little more. I own a lens at FL 58mm and one at 90mm; I tell myself that between those two I should be able to cover my needs. If I did fill that gap, it would be with the 77mm, or the VL 75mm that shows up for sale occasionally on Ebay.

In my situation, would you still want a lens with FL 70-77mm?
I own the DA70 and the FA77 and have some interest in the VL 58, if that answers your question. However, I don't own a 90 outside of a zoom. The 90 is so much slower that it does not fit in the same niche to me.
03-07-2011, 02:50 PM   #96
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QuoteOriginally posted by les3547 Quote
What is it all you 70mm or 77mm users like about that focal length? Before you answer, let me complicate the question a little more. I own a lens at FL 58mm and one at 90mm; I tell myself that between those two I should be able to cover my needs. If I did fill that gap, it would be with the 77mm, or the VL 75mm that shows up for sale occasionally on Ebay.

In my situation, would you still want a lens with FL 70-77mm?
I think it depends on what you want to shoot in your situation. My situation is I have a 90 and 77, but they both have different uses. I mainly use the 90 for macro. I also have a bit of a gap from 50 to 77, but don't see that as much of a problem. I think your biggest problem is going to be deciding on the 77 or VL 75!
03-07-2011, 03:06 PM   #97
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QuoteOriginally posted by GeneV Quote
I own the DA70 and the FA77 and have some interest in the VL 58, if that answers your question. However, I don't own a 90 outside of a zoom. The 90 is so much slower that it does not fit in the same niche to me.
I'd say "yes" except I don't know what you are/will use those lenses for. Is your 58mm interest because of its speed? Are/will you use them all for portraits and people?

Speed for me is not so important since I shoot almost everything on a tripod. Of course, I can see other reasons you'd be interested in the 58mm. Its F1.4 speed helps make it a great bokeh getter (works even better at F2, and at 2.8 as well). Also, just for pure IQ it is superb, with its resolution chart showing it off the scale at F4 and F5.6 (center), surpassing all the Voighlanders, even the famed 125mm. Given its speed, low distortion and CA, high resolution, and bokehness, the 58mm might be one of the best lenses ever made for Pentax.

Getting back to the 77mm, if you didn't do portraits, owned the 58mm, and had the 90mm FL covered satisfactorily, would you still want the 77mm FL?
03-07-2011, 03:14 PM   #98
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QuoteOriginally posted by builttospill Quote
I think your biggest problem is going to be deciding on the 77 or VL 75!
I agree. I saw a short thread here of a woman posting pictures who owned both. I couldn't tell the difference in IQ, especially since it seemed the Voightlander was over-exposing by 1/3 to 1/2 stop after she started stopping down the lenses for comparisons at different F stops. The FA 77 has auto focus, but then there's the LBA appeal of having a near complete collection of Voightlanders, and my irrational belief in Voighlander magic.

03-07-2011, 03:56 PM   #99
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QuoteOriginally posted by les3547 Quote
I'd say "yes" except I don't know what you are/will use those lenses for. Is your 58mm interest because of its speed? Are/will you use them all for portraits and people?

Speed for me is not so important since I shoot almost everything on a tripod. Of course, I can see other reasons you'd be interested in the 58mm. Its F1.4 speed helps make it a great bokeh getter (works even better at F2, and at 2.8 as well). Also, just for pure IQ it is superb, with its resolution chart showing it off the scale at F4 and F5.6 (center), surpassing all the Voighlanders, even the famed 125mm. Given its speed, low distortion and CA, high resolution, and bokehness, the 58mm might be one of the best lenses ever made for Pentax.

Getting back to the 77mm, if you didn't do portraits, owned the 58mm, and had the 90mm FL covered satisfactorily, would you still want the 77mm FL?
Well, you have to throw into the mix that I still shoot a good deal of film with manual focus. The VL lenses are wonderful for that.

I would also use the 58mm for a lot of the same things I've seen you use it for. I think a very sharp 50mm-ish lens is great for landscapes, vegetation and the like. I don't have a fast 50 that is compatible with P-TTL flash.

I do take portraits, but I also like the 77mm for candids of people on the street. I do some street shots at wider angles to get context, but the 77 has a more intimate feel. I have also shot sports and action with the 77mm as well as dance and indoor music events. I'd have to say that most of my 77mm shots do have people in them.
03-07-2011, 04:31 PM   #100
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QuoteOriginally posted by GeneV Quote
Well, you have to throw into the mix that I still shoot a good deal of film with manual focus. The VL lenses are wonderful for that.

I would also use the 58mm for a lot of the same things I've seen you use it for. I think a very sharp 50mm-ish lens is great for landscapes, vegetation and the like. I don't have a fast 50 that is compatible with P-TTL flash.

I do take portraits, but I also like the 77mm for candids of people on the street. I do some street shots at wider angles to get context, but the 77 has a more intimate feel. I have also shot sports and action with the 77mm as well as dance and indoor music events. I'd have to say that most of my 77mm shots do have people in them.
Thanks Gene (and everyone else who advised, plus the OP for letting me briefly highjack your thread), that's helpful. Since I seldom shoot people, it seems like my next purchase will be the FA 31mm!
03-07-2011, 04:52 PM   #101
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The DA70 is a good lens I have never used.
The FA77 is a great lens you can pry from my fingers when I am dead and gone.

And yes, I use it as an everyday walk-around. I carry a screw-on adapter for macro.
03-07-2011, 08:32 PM   #102
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QuoteOriginally posted by les3547 Quote
In my situation, would you still want a lens with FL 70-77mm?
Do you have a zoom that covers that range? Have you tracked the focal lengths you use? With the zoom, do you shoot much around 75mm? IFF yes AND yes AND yes, THEN you might want a prime in that region, ELSE you might be happy with what you have. (That's decision pseudocode -- hay, my software engineering training pays off!)

We can have many reasons for plugging a void in our lens lineups. Such reasons may include:

* Hay, I REALLY REALLY want that one!
* Ooh, I can get a decent one pretty cheap.
* Ah, I have 'way too much money now.
* Everybody says I really really need it.
* My analysis verifies the requirement.
* Er, the voices in my head told me to.
* It's probably a good investment.
* Nobody else on the block has one.
* I got real lucky, it fell off a truck.

I'll admit that my only Seventy's are a few cheap sharp enlarger lenses that I use on tubes for fixed-focus work. Good for portraits, yes they are. Cost: about four for a dime. But I'll repeat my usual recommendation: Get a cheap zoom, see if you're comfortable shooting around 75mm -- THEN blow your budget.
04-04-2011, 11:33 PM   #103
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I've never owned the DA70 (and I probably never will) but wouldn't it be true to say that the DA77 is a connoisseur lens, suitable for people who appreciate its strengths AND weaknesses, and are willing to use it only for the purposes it was intended for (i.e. at portrait distances, where it really excels)?

I'd also say that the DA70 is a better allround lens - just because it's more mainstream in its rendering.
04-05-2011, 12:51 AM   #104
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
I have both the 70 and 77.
The 70 is my go to lens when I need a short telephoto.
The 77 is my go to lens when I need a paperweight.
Sad but true, I almost never use my 77.
Didn't use it at all last year, I used it for two portrait shoots the year before that.
Soo.. how much are you wanting for your paperweight? I could even send you a replacement paperweight in return!
04-05-2011, 04:37 AM   #105
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QuoteOriginally posted by DogLover Quote
That's really a weak reason for rejecting the DA*55. I don't ever recall hearing of one of these failing (not saying it hasn't happened, but certainly not enough to be an issue). To me, the only possible weakness of this lens is the less-than-speedy AF, but that still doesn't keep me from loving it dearly. You are cheating yourself if that is your only reason to deny yourself this jewel.
I recently tested 5 copies of the DA*55/1.4 on my K-7, and all suffered from very erratic focusing. None of my other lenses exhibit this problem. I also tested one on a K-5 and found that it progressively backfocused as aperture was reduced. (This was only with autofocus, not manual focus, so it does not represent focus shift.) My advice to anyone considering this lens is to test the hell out of it before making a commitment to keep it.

Rob
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