77mm vs 70mm as all-arround

builttospill · 03-05-2011, 08:59 PM

Another option is renting each lens, then making the decision which one to purchase. If you're leaning toward a cheaper lens this might not be worth the money, but if you're considering an expensive lens it may be worth a little money to rent it and see if it meets your expectations before spending that kind of money.

**Rondec** · 03-06-2011, 05:31 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by TOUGEFC

Anyone who has a hard time deciding between the two, and cannot simply try them both out.
Try and look at as many pictures as you that have been taken with both lenses. That can help alot.

The DA LTD club is a great place and so is the FA LTD club thread

Or even flickr or the PPG

The problem with PPG and the "club" threads is that what you see has a lot more to do with the quality of the photographer, rather than the lens itself. FA limiteds and to a lesser extent DA limiteds tend to be used by higher level photographers who know what they are doing and so their photos look better.

Purchasing a bunch of expensive lenses will not necessarily make your photos better. Shooting a lot and studying the results will.

**amalongi** · 03-06-2011, 05:59 AM

Isn't that true with most lenses? I have seen stunning results with kit lenses, off-brand lenses, etc. While the lens might ultimately help, having an eye and maybe some PP skills.

johnmflores · 03-06-2011, 07:18 AM

Originally posted by Wheatfield

I'm on a regimen of enforced niceness, so even if I wanted it to end badly, it wouldn't.

TO THE ALIENS THAT HAVE INVADED WHEATFIELD'S BODY - WE SHALL NOT REST UNTIL HE IS RETURNED TO US!

Originally posted by andi

This is the most bizarre statement.
If you have both and prefer 70 over 77, you can as easily shoot
with the simplest P&S camera, you won't notice the difference, trust me.
It will be sharp everywhere, no purple ca, and it will be really light.

Never mind, we found him....

v5planet · 03-06-2011, 08:31 AM

Originally posted by Rondec

The problem with PPG and the "club" threads is that what you see has a lot more to do with the quality of the photographer, rather than the lens itself. FA limiteds and to a lesser extent DA limiteds tend to be used by higher level photographers who know what they are doing and so their photos look better.

Purchasing a bunch of expensive lenses will not necessarily make your photos better. Shooting a lot and studying the results will.

I think that's a true statement, but there is also value in looking at what good photographers are able to produce with given lenses -- that is, they have learned its strengths and are showing you what the lens is capable of. Anyone can take a bad picture with a great lens, and simply buying a bunch of great lenses without any technical proficiency or artistic vision in using them is sure to produce just that: bad images.

Still, seeing what talented people have done can show you the upper limits, strengths, and characteristics of a lens. Buying a lens is easy; producing those results is the tough part!

GeneV · 03-06-2011, 08:55 AM

Originally posted by Rondec

The problem with PPG and the "club" threads is that what you see has a lot more to do with the quality of the photographer, rather than the lens itself. FA limiteds and to a lesser extent DA limiteds tend to be used by higher level photographers who know what they are doing and so their photos look better.

Purchasing a bunch of expensive lenses will not necessarily make your photos better. Shooting a lot and studying the results will.

So true. I've seen few situations where a lens made a good shot look bad. On the other hand, many shots can make a good lens look bad.

8540tomg · 03-06-2011, 09:40 AM

Originally posted by GeneV

So true. I've seen few situations where a lens made a good shot look bad. On the other hand, many shots can make a good lens look bad.

Good point Gene as I've proven on so many occasions.

Tom G

Wheatfield · 03-06-2011, 10:45 AM

Originally posted by johnmflores

TO THE ALIENS THAT HAVE INVADED WHEATFIELD'S BODY - WE SHALL NOT REST UNTIL HE IS RETURNED TO US!

I'll be back next week. A month of purgatory ending.

Quote:

Never mind, we found him....

I wrote him off about the same time I read that post.
Anyone who has actually used both the 70 and 77 know how wrong that post is.
Those two lenses are so close WRT their imaging quality as to be a wash.

Class A · 03-06-2011, 11:58 PM

Originally posted by Wheatfield

Those two lenses are so close WRT their imaging quality as to be a wash.

So the 43% surcharge Pentax demands for the FA 77 is basically ripping customers off for a nice package that isn't needed for optical performance?

heasley · 03-07-2011, 12:26 AM

Originally posted by Class A

So the 43% surcharge Pentax demands for the FA 77 is basically ripping customers off for a nice package that isn't needed for optical performance?

And they managed to pack the same performance into half the size and weight? I know the DA70 is for a cropped sensor but it is much smaller than the FA77.

I think the extra half stop or so is one irrefutable advantage.

TOUGEFC · 03-07-2011, 03:16 AM

Put the hood on the DA70 and it aint that much smaller

Wheatfield · 03-07-2011, 06:14 AM

Originally posted by Class A

So the 43% surcharge Pentax demands for the FA 77 is basically ripping customers off for a nice package that isn't needed for optical performance?

You are paying for a bigger image circle, which, if you are still shooting film might mean something to you.
If you are shooting digital, then yes, you pretty much have it surrounded'
As for Pentax ripping people off, you, as a consumer get to decide if the product is worth the money.
If you don't, and still buy it, then you are ripping yourself off. Pentax is just putting the product out there and telling you what they think it is worth.

Originally posted by heasley

And they managed to pack the same performance into half the size and weight? I know the DA70 is for a cropped sensor but it is much smaller than the FA77.

I think the extra half stop or so is one irrefutable advantage.

That is the only advantage if you only intend to use a DSLR. If half a stop is worth half again more money, then the 77 is worth the money.

GeneV · 03-07-2011, 06:16 AM

Originally posted by TOUGEFC

Put the hood on the DA70 and it aint that much smaller

The hood comes off, and I use it a lot that way, just for that reason. It almost doubles the size of the lens, and a well placed hand will do the job of shading in a pinch or I carry the hood separately. I have both lenses, so I don't really have a dog in this fight, but one of the advantages to the DA70 is definitely size and weight.

A stop of speed comes at a fairly steep price in size as well as money. IMHO, the real issue between these two lenses on a DSLR is do you need the speed? (For film, the FA77 adds an aperture ring, which is almost essential)

WerTicus · 03-07-2011, 08:47 AM

DA70, a better lens in every way except for raw speed... IMO

les3547 · 03-07-2011, 12:58 PM

I have a question that is somewhat related to this thread (though not really), but I don't want to start a new thread just to ask it.

What is it all you 70mm or 77mm users like about that focal length? Before you answer, let me complicate the question a little more. I own a lens at FL 58mm and one at 90mm; I tell myself that between those two I should be able to cover my needs. If I did fill that gap, it would be with the 77mm, or the VL 75mm that shows up for sale occasionally on Ebay.

In my situation, would you still want a lens with FL 70-77mm?

03-07-2011, 12:26 AM	#85
heasley Forum Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Brisbane Posts: 99	Originally posted by Class A So the 43% surcharge Pentax demands for the FA 77 is basically ripping customers off for a nice package that isn't needed for optical performance? And they managed to pack the same performance into half the size and weight? I know the DA70 is for a cropped sensor but it is much smaller than the FA77. I think the extra half stop or so is one irrefutable advantage. Last edited by heasley; 03-07-2011 at 01:12 AM.

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03-05-2011, 08:59 PM	#76
builttospill Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Utah, Idaho Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,398	Another option is renting each lens, then making the decision which one to purchase. If you're leaning toward a cheaper lens this might not be worth the money, but if you're considering an expensive lens it may be worth a little money to rent it and see if it meets your expectations before spending that kind of money.

03-06-2011, 05:31 AM - 1 Like	#77
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,650	Originally posted by TOUGEFC Anyone who has a hard time deciding between the two, and cannot simply try them both out. Try and look at as many pictures as you that have been taken with both lenses. That can help alot. The DA LTD club is a great place and so is the FA LTD club thread Or even flickr or the PPG The problem with PPG and the "club" threads is that what you see has a lot more to do with the quality of the photographer, rather than the lens itself. FA limiteds and to a lesser extent DA limiteds tend to be used by higher level photographers who know what they are doing and so their photos look better. Purchasing a bunch of expensive lenses will not necessarily make your photos better. Shooting a lot and studying the results will.

03-06-2011, 05:59 AM	#78
amalongi Site Supporter Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: St. Paul, MN Posts: 167	Isn't that true with most lenses? I have seen stunning results with kit lenses, off-brand lenses, etc. While the lens might ultimately help, having an eye and maybe some PP skills.

03-06-2011, 07:18 AM	#79
johnmflores Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Somerville, NJ Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,361	Originally posted by Wheatfield I'm on a regimen of enforced niceness, so even if I wanted it to end badly, it wouldn't. TO THE ALIENS THAT HAVE INVADED WHEATFIELD'S BODY - WE SHALL NOT REST UNTIL HE IS RETURNED TO US! Originally posted by andi This is the most bizarre statement. If you have both and prefer 70 over 77, you can as easily shoot with the simplest P&S camera, you won't notice the difference, trust me. It will be sharp everywhere, no purple ca, and it will be really light. Never mind, we found him....

03-06-2011, 08:31 AM	#80
v5planet Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Seattle Photos: Albums Posts: 1,915	Originally posted by Rondec The problem with PPG and the "club" threads is that what you see has a lot more to do with the quality of the photographer, rather than the lens itself. FA limiteds and to a lesser extent DA limiteds tend to be used by higher level photographers who know what they are doing and so their photos look better. Purchasing a bunch of expensive lenses will not necessarily make your photos better. Shooting a lot and studying the results will. I think that's a true statement, but there is also value in looking at what good photographers are able to produce with given lenses -- that is, they have learned its strengths and are showing you what the lens is capable of. Anyone can take a bad picture with a great lens, and simply buying a bunch of great lenses without any technical proficiency or artistic vision in using them is sure to produce just that: bad images. Still, seeing what talented people have done can show you the upper limits, strengths, and characteristics of a lens. Buying a lens is easy; producing those results is the tough part!

03-06-2011, 08:55 AM	#81
GeneV Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Albuquerque NM Photos: Albums Posts: 9,830	Originally posted by Rondec The problem with PPG and the "club" threads is that what you see has a lot more to do with the quality of the photographer, rather than the lens itself. FA limiteds and to a lesser extent DA limiteds tend to be used by higher level photographers who know what they are doing and so their photos look better. Purchasing a bunch of expensive lenses will not necessarily make your photos better. Shooting a lot and studying the results will. So true. I've seen few situations where a lens made a good shot look bad. On the other hand, many shots can make a good lens look bad.

03-06-2011, 09:40 AM	#82
8540tomg Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Waterloo, Ontario Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,461	Originally posted by GeneV So true. I've seen few situations where a lens made a good shot look bad. On the other hand, many shots can make a good lens look bad. Good point Gene as I've proven on so many occasions. Tom G

03-06-2011, 10:45 AM	#83
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,975	Originally posted by johnmflores TO THE ALIENS THAT HAVE INVADED WHEATFIELD'S BODY - WE SHALL NOT REST UNTIL HE IS RETURNED TO US! I'll be back next week. A month of purgatory ending. Quote: Never mind, we found him.... I wrote him off about the same time I read that post. Anyone who has actually used both the 70 and 77 know how wrong that post is. Those two lenses are so close WRT their imaging quality as to be a wash.

03-06-2011, 11:58 PM	#84
Class A Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 11,251	Originally posted by Wheatfield Those two lenses are so close WRT their imaging quality as to be a wash. So the 43% surcharge Pentax demands for the FA 77 is basically ripping customers off for a nice package that isn't needed for optical performance?

03-07-2011, 03:16 AM	#86
TOUGEFC Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Brisbane Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,561	Put the hood on the DA70 and it aint that much smaller

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03-07-2011, 06:14 AM	#87
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,975	Originally posted by Class A So the 43% surcharge Pentax demands for the FA 77 is basically ripping customers off for a nice package that isn't needed for optical performance? You are paying for a bigger image circle, which, if you are still shooting film might mean something to you. If you are shooting digital, then yes, you pretty much have it surrounded' As for Pentax ripping people off, you, as a consumer get to decide if the product is worth the money. If you don't, and still buy it, then you are ripping yourself off. Pentax is just putting the product out there and telling you what they think it is worth. Originally posted by heasley And they managed to pack the same performance into half the size and weight? I know the DA70 is for a cropped sensor but it is much smaller than the FA77. I think the extra half stop or so is one irrefutable advantage. That is the only advantage if you only intend to use a DSLR. If half a stop is worth half again more money, then the 77 is worth the money.

03-07-2011, 06:16 AM	#88
GeneV Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Albuquerque NM Photos: Albums Posts: 9,830	Originally posted by TOUGEFC Put the hood on the DA70 and it aint that much smaller The hood comes off, and I use it a lot that way, just for that reason. It almost doubles the size of the lens, and a well placed hand will do the job of shading in a pinch or I carry the hood separately. I have both lenses, so I don't really have a dog in this fight, but one of the advantages to the DA70 is definitely size and weight. A stop of speed comes at a fairly steep price in size as well as money. IMHO, the real issue between these two lenses on a DSLR is do you need the speed? (For film, the FA77 adds an aperture ring, which is almost essential)

03-07-2011, 08:47 AM	#89
WerTicus Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Perth Australia Photos: Albums Posts: 1,514	DA70, a better lens in every way except for raw speed... IMO

03-07-2011, 12:58 PM	#90
les3547 Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Sebastopol, California Photos: Albums Posts: 2,020	I have a question that is somewhat related to this thread (though not really), but I don't want to start a new thread just to ask it. What is it all you 70mm or 77mm users like about that focal length? Before you answer, let me complicate the question a little more. I own a lens at FL 58mm and one at 90mm; I tell myself that between those two I should be able to cover my needs. If I did fill that gap, it would be with the 77mm, or the VL 75mm that shows up for sale occasionally on Ebay. In my situation, would you still want a lens with FL 70-77mm?