55mm vs. 77mm for portraits on a crop sensor

paperbag846 · 03-11-2011, 07:55 PM

title says it all.

concerned about possibly too much compression with the 77 for portraits (unflattering)?

NicoleAu · 03-11-2011, 08:18 PM

The 77mm is 'the' portrait lens for Pentax. I had a play with one last weekend, but it's owner refused to let me steal it

I loved it and if I could afford it, I would get it. This was taken with that 77mm.

TOUGEFC · 03-11-2011, 09:46 PM

Ummm are you talking about comparing the focal length in general?
Or lens vs lens? If so what lens of 55mm?

KxBlaze · 03-11-2011, 09:56 PM

My opinion is that you can shoot portraits with most any focal length from 28-150 in the right conditions, lower even but it's all about the set up. If you are doing an in-studio set up then I would go with a 77. If casual (no studio) then the 55 will do just fine.

paperbag846 · 03-11-2011, 10:09 PM

Originally posted by TOUGEFC

Ummm are you talking about comparing the focal length in general?
Or lens vs lens? If so what lens of 55mm?

Just the focal length. I have no doubts that the FA 77 is one of the best primes available for pentax. However, I do also wonder if it would be a little long for some subjects, in that it might flatten someone's features out too much. (If used on film this would not happen).

Laurentiu Cristofor · 03-11-2011, 10:15 PM

Originally posted by paperbag846

concerned about possibly too much compression with the 77 for portraits (unflattering)?

You mean, like the unflattering portraits that this guy took?

dgaies · 03-11-2011, 10:18 PM

It's certainly not too long for portraits IMO.

paperbag846 · 03-11-2011, 10:30 PM

Originally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor

You mean, like the unflattering portraits that this guy took?

Interesting!

I was only curious because of images like this one...

(My personal favorite here is at about 100mm).

You have got me thinking otherwise now...

Jewelltrail · 03-11-2011, 10:51 PM

Originally posted by paperbag846

Interesting!

I was only curious because of images like this one...

(My personal favorite here is at about 100mm).

You have got me thinking otherwise now...

Holy Smokes Paoerbag, you may have just set off a whole new trend in portrait shooting. Surely, with the various effects achieved in your demostration at various focal lengths, every woman could find a shot of herself with which she was happy--Think of It!!!

stevebrot · 03-11-2011, 11:02 PM

I have used my 50mm, 55mm, and 58mm lenses as well as my 77mm Limited and 85mm Jupiter-8 for portraits on APS-C and feel that they all work well. The shorter lenses allow for a little closer working distance, but the two longer lenses are just fine, particularly if you need shallow DOF. Back in the day, portrait lenses for 35mm film started at 75mm and went up to 135mm. 50mm was also an option, but was a pain for tight cropping due to volume anamorphosis.

Translation...if it works, use it.

Steve

TOUGEFC · 03-11-2011, 11:06 PM

Originally posted by paperbag846

Interesting!

I was only curious because of images like this one...

(My personal favorite here is at about 100mm).

You have got me thinking otherwise now...

From those samples, everything from 70mm upwards look best to me.
I know you didnt take those, but were they shot with a crop sensor or full frame?

Pentaxor · 03-12-2011, 12:13 AM

personally, on a tight APS-C sensor, anything from 28mm and above should be fine. although at wider focal lengths, you need to work out the lens a bit due to distortion and other shortcomings that a wide lens would create. DOF varies and depends on your preference. longer lenses are shallower as you may have already known, plus the difference on bokeh illustration.
I wouldn't worry about the image being flat due to focal length, and I'm not quite sure how would it flatten the features of the subject unless you made it look flat?

cheers · 03-12-2011, 01:44 AM

focal length doesn't flatten the features, standing further away from the subject does. so you see what you do in the above pics. the photographer moved further and further away from the subject to get the same number of pixels on the head and shoulders of the subject and it resulted in further flattening the further away teh photog got.

newarts · 03-12-2011, 05:08 AM

Originally posted by cheers

focal length doesn't flatten the features, standing further away from the subject does. so you see what you do in the above pics. the photographer moved further and further away from the subject to get the same number of pixels on the head and shoulders of the subject and it resulted in further flattening the further away teh photog got.

True. But it is most convenient to use a lens that lets you compose in the viewfinder rather than cropping later.

Here's a well controlled study by Steve Easterwood. He used a full frame camera so adjust the focal lengths appropriately (his 100mm -> your 67mm)

There may be cultural or personal preference for one perspective over another based on how far people tend to stand from each other when face-to-face. After many years in a research university environment I noticed that sometimes students (often from Asia) would stand "too close" for my comfort when engaged in casual conversation; this may influence what looks like a natural perspective to them - ie they might prefer portraits taken with shorter lenses?

**Rondec** · 03-12-2011, 05:36 AM

I don't own the FA 77, but the DA 70 is close enough that I will comment. I own the DA 70 and DA *55 and I must confess, I don't see a lot of difference between them as far as "flattering features." The biggest thing is that I have to get a little closer to get the same photos with the 55 than with the 70. The lenses themselves render differently as well. I like the bokeh a little better on the 55 than the 70 (at similar apertures), but the 70 is pretty smooth in most situations. The 55 is also sharper at similar apertures.

Photo of my daughter with the 55 at f2.

My daughter again, but with the DA 70 at f2.4.

Obviously, theses are very different photos. However, the biggest differences in these lenses have to do with colors and rendering (particularly colors). 55 seems to be a little warmer than the DA limited lens, which seems more neutral. Both are quite sharp from wide open, although the 55 opens 1 and a half stops wider.

03-11-2011, 07:55 PM	#1
paperbag846 Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,395	55mm vs. 77mm for portraits on a crop sensor title says it all. concerned about possibly too much compression with the 77 for portraits (unflattering)?

03-11-2011, 08:18 PM	#2
NicoleAu Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Central Coast, NSW, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 539	The 77mm is 'the' portrait lens for Pentax. I had a play with one last weekend, but it's owner refused to let me steal it I loved it and if I could afford it, I would get it. This was taken with that 77mm. Last edited by NicoleAu; 03-11-2011 at 10:17 PM.

03-12-2011, 05:08 AM	#14
newarts Inactive Account Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Ames, Iowa, USA Photos: Albums Posts: 2,965	Originally posted by cheers focal length doesn't flatten the features, standing further away from the subject does. so you see what you do in the above pics. the photographer moved further and further away from the subject to get the same number of pixels on the head and shoulders of the subject and it resulted in further flattening the further away teh photog got. True. But it is most convenient to use a lens that lets you compose in the viewfinder rather than cropping later. Here's a well controlled study by Steve Easterwood. He used a full frame camera so adjust the focal lengths appropriately (his 100mm -> your 67mm) There may be cultural or personal preference for one perspective over another based on how far people tend to stand from each other when face-to-face. After many years in a research university environment I noticed that sometimes students (often from Asia) would stand "too close" for my comfort when engaged in casual conversation; this may influence what looks like a natural perspective to them - ie they might prefer portraits taken with shorter lenses? Last edited by newarts; 03-12-2011 at 05:23 AM.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Possible to make a tilt shift lens out of a 50mm on a crop sensor?	Abstract	Pentax SLR Lens Discussion	10	02-07-2011 03:47 PM
DA* 55mm or FA 77mm	WRB	Pentax SLR Lens Discussion	23	12-30-2010 04:12 PM
FA* 85mm F1.4 and DA* 55mm F1.4 portraits	Asahiflex	Pentax SLR Lens Discussion	21	06-16-2010 05:56 PM
DOF for 6 x 7 on Crop Sensor	Jewelltrail	Pentax Medium Format	46	04-12-2009 01:29 PM
For Sale - Sold: 55mm and 77mm filters	sholtzma	Sold Items	1	04-13-2008 06:53 PM

03-11-2011, 09:46 PM	#3
TOUGEFC Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Brisbane Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,561	Ummm are you talking about comparing the focal length in general? Or lens vs lens? If so what lens of 55mm?

03-11-2011, 09:56 PM	#4
KxBlaze Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: California Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,602	My opinion is that you can shoot portraits with most any focal length from 28-150 in the right conditions, lower even but it's all about the set up. If you are doing an in-studio set up then I would go with a 77. If casual (no studio) then the 55 will do just fine.

03-11-2011, 10:09 PM	#5
paperbag846 Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,395 Original Poster	Originally posted by TOUGEFC Ummm are you talking about comparing the focal length in general? Or lens vs lens? If so what lens of 55mm? Just the focal length. I have no doubts that the FA 77 is one of the best primes available for pentax. However, I do also wonder if it would be a little long for some subjects, in that it might flatten someone's features out too much. (If used on film this would not happen).

03-11-2011, 10:15 PM	#6
Laurentiu Cristofor Banned Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: WA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,055	Originally posted by paperbag846 concerned about possibly too much compression with the 77 for portraits (unflattering)? You mean, like the unflattering portraits that this guy took?

03-11-2011, 10:18 PM	#7
dgaies Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Maryland / Washington DC Posts: 3,917	It's certainly not too long for portraits IMO.

03-11-2011, 10:30 PM	#8
paperbag846 Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,395 Original Poster	Originally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor You mean, like the unflattering portraits that this guy took? Interesting! I was only curious because of images like this one... (My personal favorite here is at about 100mm). You have got me thinking otherwise now...

03-11-2011, 10:51 PM	#9
Jewelltrail Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Rhode Island Photos: Albums Posts: 4,180	Originally posted by paperbag846 Interesting! I was only curious because of images like this one... (My personal favorite here is at about 100mm). You have got me thinking otherwise now... Holy Smokes Paoerbag, you may have just set off a whole new trend in portrait shooting. Surely, with the various effects achieved in your demostration at various focal lengths, every woman could find a shot of herself with which she was happy--Think of It!!!

03-11-2011, 11:02 PM	#10
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	I have used my 50mm, 55mm, and 58mm lenses as well as my 77mm Limited and 85mm Jupiter-8 for portraits on APS-C and feel that they all work well. The shorter lenses allow for a little closer working distance, but the two longer lenses are just fine, particularly if you need shallow DOF. Back in the day, portrait lenses for 35mm film started at 75mm and went up to 135mm. 50mm was also an option, but was a pain for tight cropping due to volume anamorphosis. Translation...if it works, use it. Steve

03-11-2011, 11:06 PM	#11
TOUGEFC Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Brisbane Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,561	Originally posted by paperbag846 Interesting! I was only curious because of images like this one... (My personal favorite here is at about 100mm). You have got me thinking otherwise now... From those samples, everything from 70mm upwards look best to me. I know you didnt take those, but were they shot with a crop sensor or full frame?

03-12-2011, 12:13 AM	#12
Pentaxor Veteran Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Vancouver, B.C. Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,513	personally, on a tight APS-C sensor, anything from 28mm and above should be fine. although at wider focal lengths, you need to work out the lens a bit due to distortion and other shortcomings that a wide lens would create. DOF varies and depends on your preference. longer lenses are shallower as you may have already known, plus the difference on bokeh illustration. I wouldn't worry about the image being flat due to focal length, and I'm not quite sure how would it flatten the features of the subject unless you made it look flat?

03-12-2011, 01:44 AM	#13
cheers New Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 9	focal length doesn't flatten the features, standing further away from the subject does. so you see what you do in the above pics. the photographer moved further and further away from the subject to get the same number of pixels on the head and shoulders of the subject and it resulted in further flattening the further away teh photog got.

03-12-2011, 05:36 AM	#15
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,653	I don't own the FA 77, but the DA 70 is close enough that I will comment. I own the DA 70 and DA *55 and I must confess, I don't see a lot of difference between them as far as "flattering features." The biggest thing is that I have to get a little closer to get the same photos with the 55 than with the 70. The lenses themselves render differently as well. I like the bokeh a little better on the 55 than the 70 (at similar apertures), but the 70 is pretty smooth in most situations. The 55 is also sharper at similar apertures. Photo of my daughter with the 55 at f2. My daughter again, but with the DA 70 at f2.4. Obviously, theses are very different photos. However, the biggest differences in these lenses have to do with colors and rendering (particularly colors). 55 seems to be a little warmer than the DA limited lens, which seems more neutral. Both are quite sharp from wide open, although the 55 opens 1 and a half stops wider.