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03-16-2011, 05:30 PM   #1
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Poor Pentax support at Tokina

Not sure if this was discussed before. My searches gave unrevealing results.

So, Hoya has owned Pentax for a few years (2008?) and they have owned Tokina for 25+ years. My question is, why is support for Pentax mount so poor over at sister company Tokina?

03-16-2011, 05:53 PM   #2
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Hoya wants you to buy Pentax branded lenses.
This presumes that you are correct about Hoya owning Tokina, which is very much open to debate from the short web search I just did.

Last edited by Wheatfield; 03-16-2011 at 06:12 PM.
03-16-2011, 06:19 PM   #3
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I'm guessing you're right, but I'm not sure itís a wise business decision. There are always going to be folks wanting a perceived better performance/price ratio. Taking a tack like this might drive those customers to Sigma, who seems to have great support for Pentax. Not to mention a better range of lenses in some categories than Pentax themselves.
03-16-2011, 06:22 PM   #4
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Pentax owns the patents for a significant number of Tokina lenses -- Tokina pays a licensing fee, but I suppose if they did things to anger Pentax, things wouldn't go as well. It is unclear as to whether or not Hoya truly owns Tokina. They are both a part of the Kenko group, but that isn't the same thing as Hoya owning Tokina.

As far as I can tell, Pentax own the patents for the DA 35, DA 50-135, DA 16-50, 100 mm macro, and 10-17 FE. That is a good portion of Tokina's catalogue of lenses. On the other hand, Tokina owns (and licenses) the optical formula for the DA 12-24 to Pentax.

Other than seeing Tokina's cheaper prices, the only lens I would like to see of Tokina's 11-16 f2.8.

03-16-2011, 06:24 PM   #5
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It isn't hard to figure out what a big company like Hoya owns - just go to their corporate information page; or specifically their Business Domains page. It lists the the things they're making products for with the names of the divisions that handle them (PENTAX obviously standing out there).

Hoya doesn't own Tokina, and Pentax may or may not be in some sort of partnership with Tokina (which is obviously different from being owned by Hoya).
03-16-2011, 06:24 PM   #6
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Isn't the current lineup of Tokina lenses designed with help from Pentax? I always thought that Tokina was really just Pentax glass in Canon/Nikon mount.
03-16-2011, 07:13 PM   #7
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On the Hoya owns Tokina thing, I'll stand by that.

I was told this years ago by the Candaian distributor, but if you look hard enough you can find evidence of this on Hoya's sites. They are not up-front about it.

Look at this site: HOYA FILTERS - The Difference is Clear

Specifically, look at the listings for Argentina and Mexico. See who the contacts are if you want to distribute Hoya in these countries.

BTW, Kenko owns Tokina and they make no bones about it. So Kenko is in this mix too. Strange how they just came out with a Pentax compatible body, no?

Last edited by BillO; 03-16-2011 at 07:18 PM.
03-16-2011, 07:22 PM   #8
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Looking at the board of Hoya and Tokina it looks like the same family runs both, but Hoya/Pentax is public and Tokina is private. They jointly own THK (Tokina, Hoya, Kenko). Pentax is still a new entity to the group and it might take awhile for Pentax to be fully integrated and deals to be worked out.

If Pentax could license more lens designs to Tokina it could spread out R&D cost and Pentax could be making money off of the Canon and Nikon mount.

03-16-2011, 08:10 PM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Pentax owns the patents for a significant number of Tokina lenses -- Tokina pays a licensing fee, but I suppose if they did things to anger Pentax, things wouldn't go as well. It is unclear as to whether or not Hoya truly owns Tokina. They are both a part of the Kenko group, but that isn't the same thing as Hoya owning Tokina.

As far as I can tell, Pentax own the patents for the DA 35, DA 50-135, DA 16-50, 100 mm macro, and 10-17 FE. That is a good portion of Tokina's catalogue of lenses. On the other hand, Tokina owns (and licenses) the optical formula for the DA 12-24 to Pentax.

Other than seeing Tokina's cheaper prices, the only lens I would like to see of Tokina's 11-16 f2.8.
I have read that the 12-24...Pentax/Tokina is actually a German Schneider design...in a British magazine a couple of years ago.

I have the 12-24....Pentax brand...love it.
03-16-2011, 09:35 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Other than seeing Tokina's cheaper prices, the only lens I would like to see of Tokina's 11-16 f2.8.
Ditto on that. I would love to have the 11-16 f/2.8 on a Pentax. It would probably put a big dent on DA 12-24mm sales, which I feel is over-priced.
03-17-2011, 12:47 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by Vylen Quote
It isn't hard to figure out what a big company like Hoya owns - just go to their corporate information page; or specifically their Business Domains page. It lists the the things they're making products for with the names of the divisions that handle them (PENTAX obviously standing out there).
Bad link -- use this: [ HOYA CORPORATION|About HOYA ]
03-17-2011, 01:06 AM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by BillO Quote
There are always going to be folks wanting a perceived better performance/price ratio. Taking a tack like this might drive those customers to Sigma, who seems to have great support for Pentax.
I agree. Clearly, as Wheatfield said, Pentax likes customers to buy the more expensive Pentax versions. However, I would very much hesitate to buy the Pentax 12-24 just because I'd feel ripped off considering that the Tokina version (same optical design) just costs 57% of the Pentax.

QuoteOriginally posted by einstrigger Quote
I would love to have the 11-16 f/2.8 on a Pentax. It would probably put a big dent on DA 12-24mm sales, which I feel is over-priced.
+1

With the current landscape, the Sigma 10-20s are pretty much a no-brainer unless one doesn't mind overpaying for a Pentax 12-24 (or for some reason needs the focal range of course).
03-17-2011, 05:00 AM   #13
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The reality is, if Hoya owned both Tokina and Pentax, they would be silly to undercut Pentax prices by releasing cheaper Tokina lenses in K Mount. The only thing they might do would be to push Tokina to license over some of their optical designs to Pentax to use in their own (still higher priced) lenses. However, from all indications, Pentax isn't really interested in Tokina designs and would rather use their own roadmap and design lenses accordingly to fit with that plan, otherwise, why would they release their own 18-135 lens when Tokina already has a 16.5 to 135 lens designed?

Third party lenses will always be cheaper than Pentax lenses, even when they are of excellent quality. Even so, many people will choose brand name lenses because of perceived benefit from them.
03-17-2011, 06:36 AM   #14
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The Pentax-Tokina deal (in which Tokina got access to severall Pentax lens designs and Pentax got access to one Tokina design) dates from before Hoya bought Pentax. So there may be contracts that Hoya cannot do much about independent of the other large questionmarks about the Hoya-Tokina relationship etc.
03-17-2011, 07:54 AM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
(or for some reason needs the focal range of course).
Then you should go for the Tamron 10-24 unless you want pentax brand and paying almost 3 times the price...

+1 with the 11-16 f 2,8 i would jump head first if that lens was available.
And then about the lens lineup and how they are the "same"..Thay are not: barrel design and coatings are not the same and those two things have a consequence in the resulting lens... The other day i read how the 12-24 Tokina was considered only a decent lens by canikonians while pentaxians considered pentax one to be sublime. The poster argued that Pentaxians overrated the lens but i started thinking that maybe coatings and barrel design made some difference here and that explained the difference in appreciation.

Independently of who owns who, what are the plans, etc, as a consumer i would love to see more Tokina K mount lenses out there, competition and choice are always good for us (price wise).
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