Sigma 85mm 1.4, A game changer???

outsider · 03-22-2011, 09:55 PM

Very good point! I hadn't thought of it like that. Thank you Sigma. It was a long time coming.

Asahiflex · 03-23-2011, 01:29 AM - **1 Like**

As an owner of the FA* 85/1.4 and the FA* 80-200, I'd like to chime in as well

Are the FA*'s overpriced? Yes, for sure. I probably would not have bought them if I did not have the funds. Do I like them to death? Yes, for sure!

It's hard to say if the Sigma 85/1.4 is better than the FA*. I do know that wide open, my FA* 85/1.4 is sharper than any FA 50/1.4 I've tried. So if the Sigma is even sharper: wow. But "sharper" is not the same as "better". I'd like to see which lens gives an overall more pleasing picture - at portrait distances. The FA* 85/1.4 is a specialty lens and it should be treated as such.

For a zoom, the FA* 80-200 is plain superb. Every time I show my shots to Nikon and Canon shooters, I receive comments about the smooth bokeh (which they consider smoother than the bokeh of their brand's equivalents, without the apparent double-lining or "nisen bokeh"). I used it extensively on my vacation to Italy and I'm still blown away when looking at the pictures.

I tried a few of my FA*'s and F*'s on fullframe (through an extension tube as to avoid mirror collision problems) and I must say that I still don't regret that I bought them.

1.

2.

3.

4.

5.

pinholecam · 03-23-2011, 01:33 AM

The 3rd party options have always been a good option if money was tight.
Tamron 28-75/2.8, Tamron/Sigma 70-200/2.8, various macros, all give perhaps 90% of the performance for 70% of the price.
This does vary from lens to lens though.

FA*85 is about $1100-$1200, Sigma is about $1000 (in fact its only difference of $130 where I'm from)
Sigma is new with warranty for what its worth and plastic.
FA*85 is solid, very good performance that is hard to beat and SMC coating against flare and SMC colors/contrast. Not to mention its OOP status.
I won't bat an eyelid getting the Pentax over the Sigma for the price difference.

FA*80-200 vs Tamron 70-200 is another story for me altogether. Its almost twice the price of the Tamron and certainly for me the better build and SMC coating does not make up for the $600-$700 difference.
Same line of logic for the Tamron 28-75 vs FA*28-70

The Sigma 85mm looks nice, and perhaps its a challenger to the FA77ltd which is in production. But the 77ltd is finer built, SMC coated and small which is its ultimate strength imo. A smaller package that delivers 85mm 'like' performance, that easily gets taken out for a day out.

I can see those who believe (and the word is 'believe'), that original lenses offer a better deal continue buying Pentax lenses for what it is worth to them. Those who think otherwise will continue buying some 3rd party lenses.
An additional option perhaps, but not a game changer.

Tommot1965 · 03-23-2011, 01:58 AM

Originally posted by Asahiflex

As an owner of the FA* 85/1.4 and the FA* 80-200, I'd like to chime in as well

Are the FA*'s overpriced? Yes, for sure. I probably would not have bought them if I did not have the funds. Do I like them to death? Yes, for sure!

It's hard to say if the Sigma 85/1.4 is better than the FA*. I do know that wide open, my FA* 85/1.4 is sharper than any FA 50/1.4 I've tried. So if the Sigma is even sharper: wow. But "sharper" is not the same as "better". I'd like to see which lens gives an overall more pleasing picture - at portrait distances. The FA* 85/1.4 is a specialty lens and it should be treated as such.

For a zoom, the FA* 80-200 is plain superb. Every time I show my shots to Nikon and Canon shooters, I receive comments about the smooth bokeh (which they consider smoother than the bokeh of their brand's equivalents, without the apparent double-lining or "nisen bokeh"). I used it extensively on my vacation to Italy and I'm still blown away when looking at the pictures.

I tried a few of my FA*'s and F*'s on fullframe (through an extension tube as to avoid mirror collision problems) and I must say that I still don't regret that I bought them.

1.

2.

3.

4.

5.

thanks for sharing the performance of you Fa*'s..they are quite something...every time Ive seen a special image ..its normally got a fa 85mm between it and the camera....you are very lucky indeed

axl · 03-23-2011, 04:09 AM

Originally posted by StephenMerola

From everything that I have seen, I would pick the Sigma EX DG 24mm f/1.8 over the FA* 24mm every time.

And you would make the wrong choice. I tried both and winner was clear despite 2x the price...

Asahiflex · 03-23-2011, 04:21 AM

Originally posted by axl

And you would make the wrong choice. I tried both and winner was clear despite 2x the price...

Sample variation or different tastes?

danielausparis · 03-23-2011, 05:25 AM

Most modern lenses are well corrected and very sharp. To me the real issue is rendering i.e. if a lens "has it" - pixie dust or the like. This is mostly subjective, of course, however the community (this forum, among other) quite often converges in this matter.

Pixie dust distribution is not proportional to lens price.

If i would be the OP, i would try to compare the offerings in his target market from this perspective and make my choice from my subjective feelings towards the aesthetic and artistic value of images as rendered by the compared lenses. A useful source might be pbase.com and, to a lesser extend, pixel-peeper.com - next to renting lenses, of course.

GeneV · 03-23-2011, 06:13 AM

Originally posted by deadwolfbones

Note that those are on the D700, but I've seen similar results from Pentax dSLRs using it.

Ben, terrific shots. I especially like seeing places and people I've seen first hand.

Are those crops? The overall effect of the small DOF on the larger sensor would, I think be very different.

deadwolfbones · 03-23-2011, 08:14 AM

Originally posted by GeneV

Ben, terrific shots. I especially like seeing places and people I've seen first hand.

Are those crops? The overall effect of the small DOF on the larger sensor would, I think be very different.

Mostly not crops. If so, they're very minor ones.

I can provide some 100% samples later if you like.

Also, I'm receiving my D300 today, so I can get some crop-sensor samples from the same lens and see what the DoF differences are like.

Pentaxor · 03-23-2011, 09:42 AM

Originally posted by pinholecam

The 3rd party options have always been a good option if money was tight.
Tamron 28-75/2.8, Tamron/Sigma 70-200/2.8, various macros, all give perhaps 90% of the performance for 70% of the price.
This does vary from lens to lens though.

FA*85 is about $1100-$1200, Sigma is about $1000 (in fact its only difference of $130 where I'm from)
Sigma is new with warranty for what its worth and plastic.
FA*85 is solid, very good performance that is hard to beat and SMC coating against flare and SMC colors/contrast. Not to mention its OOP status.
I won't bat an eyelid getting the Pentax over the Sigma for the price difference.

FA*80-200 vs Tamron 70-200 is another story for me altogether. Its almost twice the price of the Tamron and certainly for me the better build and SMC coating does not make up for the $600-$700 difference.
Same line of logic for the Tamron 28-75 vs FA*28-70

The Sigma 85mm looks nice, and perhaps its a challenger to the FA77ltd which is in production. But the 77ltd is finer built, SMC coated and small which is its ultimate strength imo. A smaller package that delivers 85mm 'like' performance, that easily gets taken out for a day out.

I can see those who believe (and the word is 'believe'), that original lenses offer a better deal continue buying Pentax lenses for what it is worth to them. Those who think otherwise will continue buying some 3rd party lenses.
An additional option perhaps, but not a game changer.

We don't know that for certain unless we begin to get our own copy. although at Canikon land it seemed to have created a real stir much to the disgust of a few fanboys. "L" is not that as coveted anymore, the f1.8's are not that on par in terms of IQ. although the fast AF and cheap price would still attractive to those who are on a budget, much as we with the Samyang and cheap MF 85/f2 lenses. too bad we don't have a cheap AF 85, and the closest one we've got (FA77) cost near as much as the new Sigma, which is much to our dismay.

although I do have to argue about Pentax having SMC advantage and I don't believe that Sigma nor any modern lenses don't have their own SMC. I think it is a false belief to say that it is. colors may vary though and is indeed made Pentax lenses attractive, but not because they are the only ones that have it. the 77 is a great lens on it's own but is wary to use wide open under harsh conditions, considering it's already f1.8. at much wider aperture (f.1.4) and similar opening (1.8), the 77mm could not compete if one would point out the pf and ca it displays. this has somehow reminded me of the M85/2 blue-fringing glow problem as well, which can be a pain for colored images.

outsider · 03-23-2011, 10:01 AM

Yes, thank you very much for sharing your FA pictures. Such is quite rare to come by. It would be nice to have a wide open face portrait with the 85. From what i've seen of the sigma 85, I still don't have any reason to think that the FA 85 would be sharper in the middle than the Sigma. It's too bad I can't just get both without breaking bank.

**nater** · 03-23-2011, 10:10 AM

Originally posted by pinholecam

Sigma is new with warranty for what its worth and plastic.

Plastic? Are you sure? Three months ago when I handled the Canon mount version of the lens it felt like metal with a smooth rubber coating to me (came across a as a more durable variant of their past EX body finishes).

hoanpham · 03-23-2011, 10:34 AM

Originally posted by axl

Quote Originally posted by StephenMerola [Quote
From everything that I have seen, I would pick the Sigma EX DG 24mm f/1.8 over the FA* 24mm every time.
And you would make the wrong choice. I tried both and winner was clear despite 2x the price...

[/quote]

Every time I compare the images between a sigma and a pentax smc, the pentax smc always strikes and clear winner. Color rending is fantastic, no post processing needed, especially taking photos in winter in the north.

Sigma is a cheaper option or not-existing option, but where there is a choice, I go with smc.

**nater** · 03-23-2011, 11:35 AM

Originally posted by hoanpham

Every time I compare the images between a sigma and a pentax smc, the pentax smc always strikes and clear winner.

What's your comparison process?

hoanpham · 03-23-2011, 11:52 AM

It's just my personal choice of color results.

I have a calibrated monitor, neutral everything in-camera, two K20d bodies, one with sigma lens, one with pentax lens, then shoot at the same location same time with same color temperature.

I currently have 7 sigma lenses that I keep; sold several of them earlier due to duplicates, but have 30+ pentax lenses. If you give me one single photo, I can't tell the different. Perhaps I trained my self to like color rending of smc better?

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03-22-2011, 09:55 PM	#31
outsider Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Photos: Albums Posts: 416 Original Poster	Very good point! I hadn't thought of it like that. Thank you Sigma. It was a long time coming.

03-23-2011, 01:29 AM - 1 Like	#32
Asahiflex Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Netherlands Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,795	As an owner of the FA* 85/1.4 and the FA* 80-200, I'd like to chime in as well Are the FA's overpriced? Yes, for sure. I probably would not have bought them if I did not have the funds. Do I like them to death? Yes, for sure! It's hard to say if the Sigma 85/1.4 is better than the FA. I do know that wide open, my FA* 85/1.4 is sharper than any FA 50/1.4 I've tried. So if the Sigma is even sharper: wow. But "sharper" is not the same as "better". I'd like to see which lens gives an overall more pleasing picture - at portrait distances. The FA* 85/1.4 is a specialty lens and it should be treated as such. For a zoom, the FA* 80-200 is plain superb. Every time I show my shots to Nikon and Canon shooters, I receive comments about the smooth bokeh (which they consider smoother than the bokeh of their brand's equivalents, without the apparent double-lining or "nisen bokeh"). I used it extensively on my vacation to Italy and I'm still blown away when looking at the pictures. I tried a few of my FA's and F's on fullframe (through an extension tube as to avoid mirror collision problems) and I must say that I still don't regret that I bought them. 1. 2. 3. 4. 5.

03-23-2011, 01:33 AM	#33
pinholecam Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: North Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,706	The 3rd party options have always been a good option if money was tight. Tamron 28-75/2.8, Tamron/Sigma 70-200/2.8, various macros, all give perhaps 90% of the performance for 70% of the price. This does vary from lens to lens though. FA85 is about $1100-$1200, Sigma is about $1000 (in fact its only difference of $130 where I'm from) Sigma is new with warranty for what its worth and plastic. FA85 is solid, very good performance that is hard to beat and SMC coating against flare and SMC colors/contrast. Not to mention its OOP status. I won't bat an eyelid getting the Pentax over the Sigma for the price difference. FA80-200 vs Tamron 70-200 is another story for me altogether. Its almost twice the price of the Tamron and certainly for me the better build and SMC coating does not make up for the $600-$700 difference. Same line of logic for the Tamron 28-75 vs FA28-70 The Sigma 85mm looks nice, and perhaps its a challenger to the FA77ltd which is in production. But the 77ltd is finer built, SMC coated and small which is its ultimate strength imo. A smaller package that delivers 85mm 'like' performance, that easily gets taken out for a day out. I can see those who believe (and the word is 'believe'), that original lenses offer a better deal continue buying Pentax lenses for what it is worth to them. Those who think otherwise will continue buying some 3rd party lenses. An additional option perhaps, but not a game changer.

03-23-2011, 01:58 AM	#34
Tommot1965 Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Perth Western Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,026	Originally posted by Asahiflex As an owner of the FA* 85/1.4 and the FA* 80-200, I'd like to chime in as well Are the FA's overpriced? Yes, for sure. I probably would not have bought them if I did not have the funds. Do I like them to death? Yes, for sure! It's hard to say if the Sigma 85/1.4 is better than the FA. I do know that wide open, my FA* 85/1.4 is sharper than any FA 50/1.4 I've tried. So if the Sigma is even sharper: wow. But "sharper" is not the same as "better". I'd like to see which lens gives an overall more pleasing picture - at portrait distances. The FA* 85/1.4 is a specialty lens and it should be treated as such. For a zoom, the FA* 80-200 is plain superb. Every time I show my shots to Nikon and Canon shooters, I receive comments about the smooth bokeh (which they consider smoother than the bokeh of their brand's equivalents, without the apparent double-lining or "nisen bokeh"). I used it extensively on my vacation to Italy and I'm still blown away when looking at the pictures. I tried a few of my FA's and F's on fullframe (through an extension tube as to avoid mirror collision problems) and I must say that I still don't regret that I bought them. 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. thanks for sharing the performance of you Fa*'s..they are quite something...every time Ive seen a special image ..its normally got a fa 85mm between it and the camera....you are very lucky indeed

03-23-2011, 04:09 AM	#35
axl Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Nove Zamky, Slovakia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 7,183	Originally posted by StephenMerola From everything that I have seen, I would pick the Sigma EX DG 24mm f/1.8 over the FA* 24mm every time. And you would make the wrong choice. I tried both and winner was clear despite 2x the price...

03-23-2011, 04:21 AM	#36
Asahiflex Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Netherlands Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,795	Originally posted by axl And you would make the wrong choice. I tried both and winner was clear despite 2x the price... Sample variation or different tastes?

03-23-2011, 05:25 AM	#37
danielausparis Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 94	Most modern lenses are well corrected and very sharp. To me the real issue is rendering i.e. if a lens "has it" - pixie dust or the like. This is mostly subjective, of course, however the community (this forum, among other) quite often converges in this matter. Pixie dust distribution is not proportional to lens price. If i would be the OP, i would try to compare the offerings in his target market from this perspective and make my choice from my subjective feelings towards the aesthetic and artistic value of images as rendered by the compared lenses. A useful source might be pbase.com and, to a lesser extend, pixel-peeper.com - next to renting lenses, of course.

03-23-2011, 06:13 AM	#38
GeneV Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Albuquerque NM Photos: Albums Posts: 9,830	Originally posted by deadwolfbones Note that those are on the D700, but I've seen similar results from Pentax dSLRs using it. Ben, terrific shots. I especially like seeing places and people I've seen first hand. Are those crops? The overall effect of the small DOF on the larger sensor would, I think be very different.

03-23-2011, 08:14 AM	#39
deadwolfbones Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: La Crescenta, CA Posts: 7,450	Originally posted by GeneV Ben, terrific shots. I especially like seeing places and people I've seen first hand. Are those crops? The overall effect of the small DOF on the larger sensor would, I think be very different. Mostly not crops. If so, they're very minor ones. I can provide some 100% samples later if you like. Also, I'm receiving my D300 today, so I can get some crop-sensor samples from the same lens and see what the DoF differences are like.

03-23-2011, 09:42 AM	#40
Pentaxor Veteran Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Vancouver, B.C. Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,513	Originally posted by pinholecam The 3rd party options have always been a good option if money was tight. Tamron 28-75/2.8, Tamron/Sigma 70-200/2.8, various macros, all give perhaps 90% of the performance for 70% of the price. This does vary from lens to lens though. FA85 is about $1100-$1200, Sigma is about $1000 (in fact its only difference of $130 where I'm from) Sigma is new with warranty for what its worth and plastic. FA85 is solid, very good performance that is hard to beat and SMC coating against flare and SMC colors/contrast. Not to mention its OOP status. I won't bat an eyelid getting the Pentax over the Sigma for the price difference. FA80-200 vs Tamron 70-200 is another story for me altogether. Its almost twice the price of the Tamron and certainly for me the better build and SMC coating does not make up for the $600-$700 difference. Same line of logic for the Tamron 28-75 vs FA28-70 The Sigma 85mm looks nice, and perhaps its a challenger to the FA77ltd which is in production. But the 77ltd is finer built, SMC coated and small which is its ultimate strength imo. A smaller package that delivers 85mm 'like' performance, that easily gets taken out for a day out. I can see those who believe (and the word is 'believe'), that original lenses offer a better deal continue buying Pentax lenses for what it is worth to them. Those who think otherwise will continue buying some 3rd party lenses. An additional option perhaps, but not a game changer. We don't know that for certain unless we begin to get our own copy. although at Canikon land it seemed to have created a real stir much to the disgust of a few fanboys. "L" is not that as coveted anymore, the f1.8's are not that on par in terms of IQ. although the fast AF and cheap price would still attractive to those who are on a budget, much as we with the Samyang and cheap MF 85/f2 lenses. too bad we don't have a cheap AF 85, and the closest one we've got (FA77) cost near as much as the new Sigma, which is much to our dismay. although I do have to argue about Pentax having SMC advantage and I don't believe that Sigma nor any modern lenses don't have their own SMC. I think it is a false belief to say that it is. colors may vary though and is indeed made Pentax lenses attractive, but not because they are the only ones that have it. the 77 is a great lens on it's own but is wary to use wide open under harsh conditions, considering it's already f1.8. at much wider aperture (f.1.4) and similar opening (1.8), the 77mm could not compete if one would point out the pf and ca it displays. this has somehow reminded me of the M85/2 blue-fringing glow problem as well, which can be a pain for colored images.

03-23-2011, 10:01 AM	#41
outsider Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Photos: Albums Posts: 416 Original Poster	Yes, thank you very much for sharing your FA pictures. Such is quite rare to come by. It would be nice to have a wide open face portrait with the 85. From what i've seen of the sigma 85, I still don't have any reason to think that the FA 85 would be sharper in the middle than the Sigma. It's too bad I can't just get both without breaking bank.

03-23-2011, 10:10 AM	#42
nater Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: New England Photos: Albums Posts: 706	Originally posted by pinholecam Sigma is new with warranty for what its worth and plastic. Plastic? Are you sure? Three months ago when I handled the Canon mount version of the lens it felt like metal with a smooth rubber coating to me (came across a as a more durable variant of their past EX body finishes).

03-23-2011, 10:34 AM	#43
hoanpham Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Strand Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,366	Originally posted by axl Quote Originally posted by StephenMerola [Quote From everything that I have seen, I would pick the Sigma EX DG 24mm f/1.8 over the FA* 24mm every time. And you would make the wrong choice. I tried both and winner was clear despite 2x the price... [/quote] Every time I compare the images between a sigma and a pentax smc, the pentax smc always strikes and clear winner. Color rending is fantastic, no post processing needed, especially taking photos in winter in the north. Sigma is a cheaper option or not-existing option, but where there is a choice, I go with smc.

03-23-2011, 11:35 AM	#44
nater Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: New England Photos: Albums Posts: 706	Originally posted by hoanpham Every time I compare the images between a sigma and a pentax smc, the pentax smc always strikes and clear winner. What's your comparison process?

03-23-2011, 11:52 AM	#45
hoanpham Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Strand Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,366	It's just my personal choice of color results. I have a calibrated monitor, neutral everything in-camera, two K20d bodies, one with sigma lens, one with pentax lens, then shoot at the same location same time with same color temperature. I currently have 7 sigma lenses that I keep; sold several of them earlier due to duplicates, but have 30+ pentax lenses. If you give me one single photo, I can't tell the different. Perhaps I trained my self to like color rending of smc better?