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04-14-2011, 01:12 PM   #1
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Sigma vs Pentax Lenses (& Pentax SDM problems?)

I'm about to invest in some fast glass and am soliciting feedback. I'm torn between Sigma and Pentax lenses. My Sigma 105 is currently the best glass in my kit and I've read a lot of horror stories on the Pentax SDM focus systems going out repeatedly, turning AF lenses into expensive manuals. In fact, there appears to be a consumer advocacy group petitioning Pentax to fix this problem.

These are the kits I'm considering:
  • Sigma 10-20mm F3.5 EX DC HSM
  • Sigma 24-70mm F2.8 IF EX DG HSM
  • Sigma 70-200mm F2.8 EX DG APO Macro HSM II (or Sigma 70-200mm 1:2.8 EX DG OS HSM)
  • Sigma 30mm F1.4 EX DC HSM
Total ~$3,400

- or -
  • smc PENTAX DA Star 16-50mm F2.8 ED AL (IF) SDM
  • smc PENTAX DA Star 50-135mm F2.8 ED (IF) SDM
  • smc PENTAX DA 35mm F2.4 AL
Total ~$2,500

Either way, I'll get the Sigma 10-20mm F3.5 EX DC HSM as a good wide for my APS-C sensor (K20D bodies)

The Sigma kit really has the range I want (10-200mm), but the price on the Pentax is a clear winner. Although, I suspect the 50mm "limit" with 2 lenses could get cumbersome. Another con against Pentax, although I really dig their older lenses, is the SDM problems.

Any voices of experience wanna' chime in here?

Thanks.

04-14-2011, 01:52 PM   #2
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QuoteOriginally posted by veezchick Quote
I'm about to invest in some fast glass and am soliciting feedback. I'm torn between Sigma and Pentax lenses. My Sigma 105 is currently the best glass in my kit and I've read a lot of horror stories on the Pentax SDM focus systems going out repeatedly, turning AF lenses into expensive manuals. In fact, there appears to be a consumer advocacy group petitioning Pentax to fix this problem.

These are the kits I'm considering:
  • Sigma 10-20mm F3.5 EX DC HSM
  • Sigma 24-70mm F2.8 IF EX DG HSM
  • Sigma 70-200mm F2.8 EX DG APO Macro HSM II (or Sigma 70-200mm 1:2.8 EX DG OS HSM)
  • Sigma 30mm F1.4 EX DC HSM
Total ~$3,400

- or -
  • smc PENTAX DA Star 16-50mm F2.8 ED AL (IF) SDM
  • smc PENTAX DA Star 50-135mm F2.8 ED (IF) SDM
  • smc PENTAX DA 35mm F2.4 AL
Total ~$2,500

Either way, I'll get the Sigma 10-20mm F3.5 EX DC HSM as a good wide for my APS-C sensor (K20D bodies)

The Sigma kit really has the range I want (10-200mm), but the price on the Pentax is a clear winner. Although, I suspect the 50mm "limit" with 2 lenses could get cumbersome. Another con against Pentax, although I really dig their older lenses, is the SDM problems.

Any voices of experience wanna' chime in here?

Thanks.
I really enjoy the 10-20 Sigma, even though I have an older instance without HSM. You'd have to have a gun to get my DA*50-135. The 70-200 doesn't have enough "extra" reach for me; I went with the 50-500 "Bigma" (and particularly now that I have a K-5, I am very happy with that decision). I have the Sigma 18-50 2.8; I had the Pentax DA* 16-50 2.8, and the image quality was indistinguishable. I had the Sigma 24-60 (the 24-70's predecessor) and it was a very, very good lens, but not quite wide enough for the "walking around" duty.

If I had it to do again, but wasn't going to buy Bigma, I would almost certainly go with the Sigma 100-300 f4 (discontinued!!) instead of the 70-200 f2.8. Nearly anything I can shoot with the 200, I can shoot with the 50-135, and it's a razor. It's probably the best zoom lens I've ever used, and I've had Canon L glass (on film cameras) and A* and DA* Pentax lenses, and used Nikon glass of all description (on film cameras - I used to work in a pro camera shop back in the late 80's).

I've read that the 35mm f2.4 AL is the same optical formula as the FA 35mm f2. If that's the case, it's a hands down winner for my money. That lens is incredible (the FA). Another one you'd have to fight me to get away from me. They've gone from $299 new (when I bought mine in 2009) to over $500 New (old stock). I can't say enough good things about that, and if, as they say, the 35mm f2.4 is anything like it, it's a winner with a bullet. It's also inexpensive, so that's a bonus. So my recommendation:

35mm Pentax of your choice (for a "normal" lens) ( ~ $200)
10-20 Sigma (great, fun lens) (~$650)
24-70 Sigma (if it's wide enough for you) (~$570)
Pentax 50-135mm 2.8 (must have) (~$959)
Sigma 100-300 f4 - Actually, I'd buy Bigma again, but you didn't offer that as a choice. Wait, you didn't offer the 100-300, either... And it looks like they discontinued it (as I discovered when I looked for a price). So let me offer as a substitute... the Sigma 120-400? It's a 4.5-5.6, not a 2.8 (which is half a stop faster than Bigma at 500), but it's $999. Or the 120-300 f2.8, at a whopping $2500 on its own. So either $3378 for 10-400mm, or $4879 for 10-300 with everything at 2.8 or faster.

That said, if money were no object, I'd probably buy all of those lenses, try them out, and sell the ones I didn't like. I've done that, to a large extent - the 24-60 f2.8 went away because 24 just wasn't wide enough. The 16-50 went away because it was valued at $600, and didn't outperform my Sigma 18-50, so I could use the cash for a different lens. And I lust over the Sigma 28mm f1.8 and 30mm f1.4, just not enough to actually buy 'em
04-14-2011, 01:57 PM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by veezchick Quote
I'm about to invest in some fast glass and am soliciting feedback. I'm torn between Sigma and Pentax lenses. My Sigma 105 is currently the best glass in my kit and I've read a lot of horror stories on the Pentax SDM focus systems going out repeatedly, turning AF lenses into expensive manuals. In fact, there appears to be a consumer advocacy group petitioning Pentax to fix this problem.

These are the kits I'm considering:
  • Sigma 10-20mm F3.5 EX DC HSM
  • Sigma 24-70mm F2.8 IF EX DG HSM
  • Sigma 70-200mm F2.8 EX DG APO Macro HSM II (or Sigma 70-200mm 1:2.8 EX DG OS HSM)
  • Sigma 30mm F1.4 EX DC HSM
Total ~$3,400

- or -
  • smc PENTAX DA Star 16-50mm F2.8 ED AL (IF) SDM
  • smc PENTAX DA Star 50-135mm F2.8 ED (IF) SDM
  • smc PENTAX DA 35mm F2.4 AL
Total ~$2,500

Either way, I'll get the Sigma 10-20mm F3.5 EX DC HSM as a good wide for my APS-C sensor (K20D bodies)

The Sigma kit really has the range I want (10-200mm), but the price on the Pentax is a clear winner. Although, I suspect the 50mm "limit" with 2 lenses could get cumbersome. Another con against Pentax, although I really dig their older lenses, is the SDM problems.

Any voices of experience wanna' chime in here?

Thanks.

Well, the thing about the SDM problems with lenses that lack screw drives is that if they fail/hiccup (Heard something about them sometimes at least not being *dead,* but kinda needing a bit of re-set, re-mount, restart sort of thing like a Windows crash, not sure how that panned out, cause I don't have one,) ...but the thing that makes a worry for me is not that they become MF, but unfocusable, ...as with anything, the problems stick out and become a bit of an inflated worry, but the lack of a mechanical connection to the focusing ring offends my Luddite streak pretty deeply.


Still real good lenses, though, the Pentaxes. I think I'd probably despite reservations choose based on FL and other qualities, though: (I understand that some QC problems aside, that 16-50 is a real gem, but all other things being equal, I'd rather have a 24-70, myself, just cause that's what I like in a standard zoom. (I liked the 35-105 when shooting film, and I guess it carried over. I'm kind of having fun with an old 28-105 2.8-4: it's maybe too inconsistent to want to shoot weddings or such with, (specially cause of variable aperture) but it's a fun range It's primes I usually take most seriously, anyway. I've done pretty well with a couple of Sigmas, though, I don't think they need be called 'Stigmas' anymore.

Got the aforementioned old zoom and the 28/1.8, which is big, a bit rattly, and perhaps doesn't have quite as much 'life' as Pentax glass can have, but it's technically great for what I do: the new little 35 interests me, actually, cause while it's not as fast, (And has a plastic mount,) has both smallness and 'life' as well as edge-to-edge sharpness the 30/1.4 Sigma isn't known for. I'm impressed with this Sigma, tire of carrying (and brandishing) the big thing sometimes, and generally enjoy the optical qualities. That 30 is somewhere between. Even faster than my 28, smaller, mostly sharp in the center, though there's a certain amount of over-pickiness about that out there. Stop it down and it's supposed to be fine. )

These are kind of different lens suites you're looking at, and I suggest choosing each piece individually rather than in terms of 'covering a range.' It's OK to have overlap or gaps, just think of how you'll use each lens. Where, when, and how you'll use it.


There's no points for numerical thoroughness: each lens must have a set of *jobs* it can do, and be suited for you-doing-those. What you most want with zooms is not to have to switch lenses more than necessary for a given 'job,' ...that's kind of what zooms are *for.*

Last edited by Ratmagiclady; 04-14-2011 at 02:06 PM.
04-14-2011, 02:43 PM   #4
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I wouldn't get the HSM version of the Sigma 10-20. autofocus speed is really not an issue with a UWA, and the older, non HSM version has been shown to have better IQ.

Some more suggestions (if you don't need the weatherproofing of the DA*zooms):
Tamron 17-50 2.8 - superb lens, inexpensive ~$400
Tamron or Sigma 28-75 2.8 - also excellent IQ ~400

The Pentax 50-135 is a great lens. The only other option in this area is the discontinued Sigma 50-150. If you were going with a 28-75, you could then get the Tamron or Sigma 70-200, both of which are excellent.

So the UWA and the 2 mid zooms would be about $1300, plus the Sigma 70-200 for another $950, or the Tamron version for $750.

04-14-2011, 03:47 PM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ratmagiclady Quote
Well, the thing about the SDM problems with lenses that lack screw drives is that if they fail/hiccup (Heard something about them sometimes at least not being *dead,* but kinda needing a bit of re-set, re-mount, restart sort of thing like a Windows crash, not sure how that panned out, cause I don't have one,) ...but the thing that makes a worry for me is not that they become MF, but unfocusable, ...as with anything, the problems stick out and become a bit of an inflated worry, but the lack of a mechanical connection to the focusing ring offends my Luddite streak pretty deeply.
It's true that there have been two times where I had to remove and re-mount my 50-135 in order for it to properly activate SDM. I suspect in my case it was contact-related.
04-14-2011, 05:34 PM   #6
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here are the possible combos I would suggest.

1. Tamron 17-50 ($450) or Sigma 17-50 HSM ($650)
2. Sigma 50-150 HSM ($600-$800)
3. FA31 ($1,000)

approx amount would be $2,000-$2,500

personally I would prefer HSM against SDM because it's much faster in operation and reliable, not to mention longtime warranty.

considering you have an additional budget of $1,500 if you are going for the cheapest combo, you could add 2-3 more lenses like the

Sigma 10-20 - $400
and a Sigma 100-300 - $1,000 or get a Sigma 85/1.4 for $1,000.
04-14-2011, 06:14 PM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by veezchick Quote
The Sigma kit really has the range I want (10-200mm), but the price on the Pentax is a clear winner.
You did not add the price of the 10-20 in the Pentax total as you did in the Sigma total, so it's not so dramatically different.

I would opt for the Sigma group, however. I would consider the Tamron 28-75 and 70-200 rather than the Sigmas though.
04-14-2011, 07:59 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by veezchick Quote

These are the kits I'm considering:
  • Sigma 10-20mm F3.5 EX DC HSM
  • Sigma 24-70mm F2.8 IF EX DG HSM
  • Sigma 70-200mm F2.8 EX DG APO Macro HSM II (or Sigma 70-200mm 1:2.8 EX DG OS HSM)
  • Sigma 30mm F1.4 EX DC HSM
Total ~$3,400

- or -
  • smc PENTAX DA Star 16-50mm F2.8 ED AL (IF) SDM
  • smc PENTAX DA Star 50-135mm F2.8 ED (IF) SDM
  • smc PENTAX DA 35mm F2.4 AL
Total ~$2,500

Either way, I'll get the Sigma 10-20mm F3.5 EX DC HSM as a good wide for my APS-C sensor (K20D bodies)

The Sigma kit really has the range I want (10-200mm), but the price on the Pentax is a clear winner. Although, I suspect the 50mm "limit" with 2 lenses could get cumbersome. Another con against Pentax, although I really dig their older lenses, is the SDM problems.

Any voices of experience wanna' chime in here?

Thanks.
Why not:
Sigma 10-20 f/3.5
Sigma 17-50 f/2.8 OS
Sigma 50-150 f/2.8

*Putting on flame suit*
I would take the Sigma 17-50 f/2.8 OS over the Pentax 16-50 unless I just had to have weather sealing. The Sigma is a better lens.

I would take the Tamron 70-200 over the Sigma. The Pentax 60-250 f/4 is an excellent lens, but it is 2x the price of the Tamaron.

Before you buy a 30mm prime check out the performance of the Sigma 17-50mm f/2.8 at 30mm. http://www.lenstip.com/256.4-Lens_review-Sigma_17-50_mm_f_2.8_EX_DC_OS_HSM_I...esolution.html
It is a very good lens at that focal length and compares very well against primes.

04-14-2011, 08:09 PM - 1 Like   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by veezchick Quote
I'm about to invest in some fast glass and am soliciting feedback. I'm torn between Sigma and Pentax lenses. My Sigma 105 is currently the best glass in my kit and I've read a lot of horror stories on the Pentax SDM focus systems going out repeatedly, turning AF lenses into expensive manuals. In fact, there appears to be a consumer advocacy group petitioning Pentax to fix this problem.

These are the kits I'm considering:
  • Sigma 10-20mm F3.5 EX DC HSM
  • Sigma 24-70mm F2.8 IF EX DG HSM
  • Sigma 70-200mm F2.8 EX DG APO Macro HSM II (or Sigma 70-200mm 1:2.8 EX DG OS HSM)
  • Sigma 30mm F1.4 EX DC HSM
Total ~$3,400
I've been in a similar position, and here are my experiences. I've got the:

Sigma 10-20mm F3.5 HSM
Sigma 17-50mm F2.8 OS HSM
Sigma 70-200mm F2.8 HSM II
Sigma 50mm F1.4 HSM

The 10-20/3.5 was to replace my Sigma 10-20/4-5.6. I always felt that my F4-5.6 wasn't the sharpest copy available, so I ended up replacing it with the F3.5 version. I could've gotten the Pentax 12-24/4, but it has no HSM, and the 2mm at the wide end makes quite a big difference.

The 17-50/2.8 won the choice between it, the DA*16-50/2.8 and the Tamron 17-50/2.8 as I was after an upgrade for my Sigma 17-70/2.8-4.5. The SDM issues steered me away from the DA*, while I had some reservations about the build quality of the Tamron, plus, the Tamron didn't have silent focusing, which the Sigma does with its HSM. I did also consider the Sigma 24-70/2.8 HSM, but I realised the 17-50mm focal range would have been more useful for the kind of work I do.

The 70-200/2.8 was a choice between it, the Tamron 70-200/2.8 and the DA*50-135/2.8 as I was after an upgrade for my Pentax DA 55-300/4-5.8 Once again, SDM issues meant the DA* quickly went out of the running. I think the Tamron is optically sharper, but reading of a few issues with it in terms of the aperture blades, and the fact that it didn't have silent focusing, meant I went with the Sigma.

The 50/1.4 was because I wanted a fast fifty, faster than the Pentax-F 50/1.7 that I had at the time. It was a choice between the Sigma 50/1.4, FA 50/1.4 or DA* 55mm/1.4. I ruled out the DA* due to price, and in the end went the Sigma route due to HSM, and it's performance.

In the ~30mm focal length range, I have the FA35/2, which is a fine lens, but I must admit, if the Sigma 30/1.4 in K-mount had HSM, I'd be saying goodbye to the FA and getting the Sigma. The Sigma 85/1.4 is out now, and that's something that I plan to be adding to my kit soon, with the FA* 85/1.4 not even in the running.

I've been shooting Pentax since the K10D, and had really high hopes about the DA*16-50/2.8 and DA*50-135/2.8 when they were announced and before they were released, both because they would be F2.8 zooms, and because they had silent focusing. But once they were out, their pricing, and the SDM failures really put me off. The pricing wasn't the major issue, since I was willing to save up for the lenses, but stories of SDM failures, repeated SDM failures, the failure of Pentax to even acknowledge that there was a problem, all added up. As for weather sealing, I have used my Sigma lenses in light rain, and haven't had any problems, although I try not to have to do that, and I try to keep the lenses as dry as possible.

And yes, I do love my HSM lenses. I used to be content with screw-driven lenses and their noisy focus, because I didn't know better and ignorance is bliss, but as I shot more, and had experiences shooting in quite environments where the focusing noise draws attention, and when the photographers I knew all had that Nikon SWM and Canon USM lenses, I've made the switch and haven't looked back since; most of my HSM lenses have been upgrades from non HSM lenses. If you do go the Sigma route though, make sure you buy from a store that has a good returns policy, or buy from a physical store where you can test the lens out first, because there is a slight chance of focusing accuracy issues. My personal experience is also that Pentax lenses give a slightly warmer and more saturated look, and the colours are slightly better, but with the advent of digital processing, it's never been an issue for me.

Last edited by pop4; 04-14-2011 at 08:33 PM.
04-14-2011, 10:35 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by pop4 Quote
My personal experience is also that Pentax lenses give a slightly warmer and more saturated look, and the colours are slightly better, but with the advent of digital processing, it's never been an issue for me.
I'd just like to add one thing to this. There is a certain image presence that no digital processing can add. Some lenses have it, others don't. Nearly all the Pentax primes that I've ever used do. Digital processing can compensate for some of that, but, for instance, you'll never make an image from a Sigma zoom look like an image from, say, the Pentax 100mm f2.8 Macro. Image processing is a very broad brush, and the differences between lenses can be very fine.

I own some Sigma zooms, and I like them. Like I said, my 18-50 is indistinguishable from the Pentax 16-50 I had. But there's a *very clear* difference between what I get from my 18-50 Sigma, or my Bigma, and what I get from my 50-135, which is very much like what I get (in presence) from my primes. Yes, the 100mm Macro has higher resolution, and is sharper @ 100%, but if I shoot an image with the 100mm and the 50-135 @100mm, and set them both to "fit" on the 24" Cinema display on my desk, they're indistinguishable. This is not true of the Sigma or Tamron lenses I have.

Besides, I chose Pentax for the glass.
04-14-2011, 11:13 PM   #11
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Once upon a time the only lens I had was a Sigma 17-70 zoom. Then I bought a DA70 and was just blown away by how much better it was; colour, contast, sharpness, everything. Silly I know because it's not even remotely a fair comparision, but ever since then I've only ever bought Pentax lenses, I like the quality and consistancy in colour I get from them. The Sig 17-70 sits unloved on a shelf.
04-15-2011, 12:55 AM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by veezchick Quote
Sigma 30mm F1.4 EX DC HSM
Just a note that this lens is not HSM in Pentax mount, despite all the shops telling so. It's HSM for all other mounts, but only screwdrive AF for Pentax K mount.

Regarding SDM: one of the reasons why I purchased Sigma 50-150 HSM instead of Pentax DA* 50-135 SDM. The HSM is faster, more reliable, plus the lens comes with a 3 year warranty vs Pentax's 1 year and it is also much cheaper here.

My current kit is:
Pentax DA* 16-50 f/2.8 (would trade it for a good copy of Tamron 17-50 or the new Sigma 17-50 HSM OS without hesitation)
Sigma 30 f/1.4
Sigma 50-150 f/2.8
Pentax A 100 f/4 Macro
04-15-2011, 03:59 AM   #13
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I personally own pretty much all Pentax lenses. The biggest question with HSM versus SDM is whether or not you need really fast focusing. HSM is quite a bit speedier than SDM, particularly when looking at the 70-200 versus the 50-135. Weather sealing is also a question. This is something that the 16-50 and 50-135 have that the Sigma lenses do not have. Finally, Pentax lenses tend to be smaller than their respective Sigma counterparts.

I own the 16-50 and it is a good lens, but I think any of the Sigma/Tamron equivalents are equal to it (if you don't want weather sealing). I would actually go for the Tamron 17-50 if you don't need weather sealing. I do like the 50-135 range better than 70-200 (also love the 50-135 lens in general). I'd probably get the DA 35 prime. Looks pretty good there.

A 24-70 lens on APS-C is not quite wide enough for a walk around shooter for me. Sort of starts normal and goes telephoto. I much prefer a 16/17/18-50 range.
04-15-2011, 06:11 AM   #14
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Whatever you decide, I would include the Pentax 50 - 135. It is simply stellar and the reviews support my opinion. My best piece of glass and perfect for portraits.
04-15-2011, 09:18 AM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxor Quote
here are the possible combos I would suggest.

1. Tamron 17-50 ($450) or Sigma 17-50 HSM ($650)
2. Sigma 50-150 HSM ($600-$800)
3. FA31 ($1,000)

approx amount would be $2,000-$2,500

personally I would prefer HSM against SDM because it's much faster in operation and reliable, not to mention longtime warranty.

considering you have an additional budget of $1,500 if you are going for the cheapest combo, you could add 2-3 more lenses like the

Sigma 10-20 - $400
and a Sigma 100-300 - $1,000 or get a Sigma 85/1.4 for $1,000.
I like your idea best, though maybe that's cause I'm a prime lens shooter and if I had that kind of budget, I'm sure the lion's share would go to primes, (Namely, Limiteds, mostly,) then maybe a couple of zooms of sufficientness. Though I might be inclined toward the Pentax 50-135 if the price isn't too much, those do seem really good for the job.

Last edited by Ratmagiclady; 04-15-2011 at 09:41 AM.
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