[paperbag846]

The DA 35mm LTD is there with the DA 70mm

My apologies, I forgot about the 35. It's the only DA I have not had the pleasure to try yet .

[Blue]

Interesting update (note the LCA test -- and the DA70 is much better than the FA77 in this regard): Pentax SMC DA 70mm f/2.4 Limited - Review / Lab Test

Cheers!

Abbazz

Actually, this test is with the K-5 and the the FA 77mm test was on the K-10. Plus, in the original test, photozone torture tested the FA and did not run the same test on the DA 70mm. Photozone did state that the FA was tested in the extreme and in the original test, the LCA number were actually better than the DA on the K10d tests. The biggest problem they listed was the price and not the performance. People need to look at both the DA70 tests for the K10d and K-5. Plus, Pentax has since closed the price gap on the 2 lenses.

LensTip tends to be more objective and "honest" about how they do things.

[Blue]

My apologies, I forgot about the 35. It's the only DA I have not had the pleasure to try yet .

That would be the DA 15mm for me.

[subidoc]

While this thread began as a need for a protriait lens for a K20, and I know I am late to the party, what consideration should be given to the Voigtlander Ultron 40mm F2 SL II Aspherical or Nokton 58mm F1.4 SL II?

[Blue]

While this thread began as a need for a protriait lens for a K20, and I know I am late to the party, what consideration should be given to the Voigtlander Ultron 40mm F2 SL II Aspherical or Nokton 58mm F1.4 SL II?

I would think the Voigtlander 75 and 90 (both versions) would be better to compare to the DA 70 and FA 77.

[paperbag846]

photozone torture tested the FA and did not run the same test on the DA 70mm

In my experience, the DA 70 handles lateral CA and PF much better than the FA 77 at any given aperture. I think the tests, unfair as they may be, carry some weight.

[paperbag846]

I would think the Voigtlander 75 and 90 (both versions) would be better to compare to the DA 70 and FA 77.

Or if you want to do non-traditional portraits (i.e., more than just headshots) I think the 58 would be a great pick (based on reviews and focal length - never used the lens myself).

[Blue]

In my experience, the DA 70 handles lateral CA and PF much better than the FA 77 at any given aperture. I think the tests, unfair as they may be, carry some weight.

That may very well be, but in the numbers from pz, the FA did better in the lca category and kicked the crap out of the results they got with the Voightlander 75mm on an aps-c body regarding this. Yet they gave it a green thumbs up. Granted that was an 8 mp sensor and expect the resolution tests would go up on a newer sensor, but would guess the lca numbers would also. My point about pz is that they don't particularly like Pentax. It has also been my experience that in a high contrast situation, the 70 isn't going to fair much better in a practical since. Then again, I have to deal with the Florida sun. I can't justify owning both, so the FA 77mm won out for me. Folks can rent this lenses in the U.S. before buying them.

[Cambo]

I'm looking for a portrait lens to do some model shoots in near future. Main use would be close up head shots or head and shoulders with some full length body shots. I am torn between the FA 77m f1.8 Ltd, Da 70mm f2.4 and FA 100mm f2.8 Macro WR. I've read how 'magic' the 77mm lens is and how sharp the DA 70mm is. How does the 77mm AF speed compare to the Da 70mm? I have read coflicting reports on which is faster. The 100mm macro was a late entry but has the additional macro versatility. Is the 77mm truly that good and worth the extra cash?

actually, I lied! Mwah ha ha!

Cheers,
Cameron

[subidoc]

Or if you want to do non-traditional portraits (i.e., more than just headshots) I think the 58 would be a great pick (based on reviews and focal length - never used the lens myself).

Exactly what I was thinking, and cropping is very easy. Likewise, I have not used it myself, but the reviews and pics (even 100% crops) are stunning. Its a MF lens, though, and maybe, the thread was initiated with AF in mind. Everyone of the reviews, though, seem to love the MF.

[Abbazz]

My point about pz is that they don't particularly like Pentax.

If you think PZ is against Pentax, try Optyczne, a Polish site with reviews featuring very thorough optical tests:

Google Translate - FA77

Google Translate - DA70

Google Translate - Voigtländer90

Cheers!

Abbazz

[Blue]

If you think PZ is against Pentax, try Optyczne, a Polish site with reviews featuring very thorough optical tests:

Google Translate - FA77

Google Translate - DA70

Google Translate - Voigtländer90

Cheers!

Abbazz

The da 70 and fa 77 review seem to be the same as Lenstip which is also Polish.

[DogLover]

The da 70 and fa 77 review seem to be the same as Lenstip which is also Polish.

I always thought they were sister sites.

[Marc Sabatella]

Wow, looks I missed a bit more back and forth here. While I agree this thread has long outlived its usefulness, since when were Internet forums just about usefulness? I don't see any reason we can't continue to banter on these issues without getting personal.

So, with that in mind, a couple of observations:

- I personally would never claim the 70 was "better" than the 77. My whole point has been that most of the things that matter are subjective, and hence there is no such thing as "better" in any objective sense. Even though we can measure certain traits objectively, we cannot *weigh* those traits objectively. So if one lens wins on some of the objectively measurable counts and the other on other counts - which is the case here - there is simply no way to declare a winner. The fact that the one trait many people weigh most highly - "rendering" - is itself inherently subjective just further seals the deal.

- I would agree that the 70/77 decision is a closer call than the 40/43 decision, at least when not considering price. However, even here, there is some element of subjectivity in the weighing of the other relevant factors. For instance, 40mm is already at the upper limit of usability for me as a "normalish" lens; the extra length of the FA43 scares me a bit. I essentially never use my kit lens above 42mm except right at 55mm where I'm clearly wishing it were long still, but I use it a *ton* between 38 and 42 - mostly right at 40. If I'm going to buy a prime, I want to know I'm getting the FOV I really want. Buying a lens at the wrong focal length because the IQ is better strikes me like looking for a dropped set of keys on the wrong side of the street because the light is better there. And quick shift is still valuable to me. But really, in both the 70/77 and 40/43 cases, if prices were the same, I might have chosen the 77 and 43 for speed alone.

- As for the DA70 being the best of the DA Limiteds, the 35 is the one I haven't tried. But for me, the DA15 would be the one DA Limited I'd put up with the 70 overall. Despite the love that is showered on the 15 by some, I think in other circles it is still quite underrated.

- Really, the 40/43 and 70/77 are the only places where competition exists. It doesn't make sense to talk about whether the DA21 is as good as other Limited lenses, because there is nothing like the DA21 in either Limited line to compare it to. Same with DA15. I personally think the same is also true of the FA31 and DA35, although of course, in focal length alone they are pretty close.

[Class A]

Even though we can measure certain traits objectively, we cannot *weigh* those traits objectively.

Exactly. The hierarchy of "best" lenses will differ largely between different people, not because people don't "get" particular lenses, but everyone attaches different weights to the various traits of a lens. It is just fine if one's best lens, is not someone else's best lens.

Controversy starts when people are trying to explain to each other that their observations are incorrect or their value systems are wrong.

Lot's of good other points in your post, Marc. I (literally) "liked" it.