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05-10-2011, 05:21 AM   #16
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Also check on the newly set up extreme macro thread for examples of setup and results: Macro by any means necessary club - PentaxForums.com

05-10-2011, 08:00 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by lars.o Quote
So much good information. You guys are awesome!
Hit some reputations, eh?

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I think I'll have a try with a bellows setup. I am also dabbling in B&W film photography and happen to have an enlarger with some Rodenstock optics (50mm APO, 80mm and 120mm). I'll let you know how it goes when I'm able to get my hands on a usable bellows thingy...
New and used bellows are fairly inexpensive on eBay. A few months ago I got an M42 Bellowscope with Steinheil Culminar 105/4.5 plus hood for US$41 shipped. Yes, I was lucky! New Chinese M42's go for around US$35 I think. Be aware that most enlarger lenses (EL's) are 39mm thread, but M39-M42 adapter rings are dirt cheap. I have bought those adapters in batches of 10 for US$15 shipped. Beware of the cheapest aluminum Ukranian adapters -- rough trash!

On most bellows, you will find that EL's longer than 80mm can reach infinity focus and so can be used for general non-macro photography. Your 80 and 50 will likely be for close work only, and the 50 APO should be pretty great REAL close! With longer EL's I often uses bellows AND cheap macro tubes. Your 120 may require a tube-boost to reach significant magnification.

Reversed camera lenses can also be used on bellows. Reversed Pentax-type camera primes will have a working distance of around 45.5mm, whereas an EL's minimum focus distance is its focal length. Also, projector lenses and magnifiers and eyeglass lenses and faceted crystals and almost any optical material that fits can be stuck into bellows for amazing (sometimes lousy!) effects.

Bellows are the greatest fun!
05-10-2011, 11:14 AM   #18
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you've got an APO 50mm F/2.8????
05-10-2011, 11:29 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by RioRico Quote
The definition of 1:1 is that the size of the image on the frame (film or sensor) is the same as the size of the subject.

Let's say I have a lens setup for 1:1, and I'm shooting a ruler. On a full-frame 36x24mm camera (film or digital), I'll see ~1.5 inches in the viewfinder. On a half-frame 24x18mm film camera, or ~25x16mm APS-C camera, I'll see ~1 inch in the viewfinder. The recorded image magnification remains the same. The cropped frame chops off the edges of the projected image, that's all.

I can rig my KW G&T Patent Etui 6.5x9cm folder (with groundglass back) for 1:1 also, and I'll see ~3.25 inches on the groundglass. If I were shooting film in all those, and I stacked the various-sized negatives on top of the ruler, everything would line up. The recorded details are all the same size. The ruler ticks are all the same distance apart. The larger frames just capture more of the projected image.

And the focal length of the lens makes no difference to magnification. A longer lens just allows/forces you to work further from the subject. A non-reversed lens can't focus closer than its focal length. So, on any camera, working distance for 1:1 with a 24mm lens is one inch; for a 50mm lens, two inches; for a 100mm lens, four inches; etc. (Note: I refer to non-reversed non-zoom lenses. Reversal and zooms have different working distances.)

To really get into this, read the BIBLE (old testament, anyway) of close-up and technical shooting [ Field Photography: Beginning and Advanced Techniques by Alfred A. Blaker ] which is still an incredible deal at Amazon.
The one "advantage" crop-sensors have is that they generally have higher pixel pitch. For macro, if you illuminate the subject above the noise threshold, higher pixel density == higher detail recorded at 1:1. Of course, you have to have optics that resolve sufficient detail to utilize the pixel pitch's detail.

05-10-2011, 06:55 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by yeatzee Quote
you've got an APO 50mm F/2.8????
If that's the Rodagon, he's got a nice little treasure there! Especially the Rodagon-N.

QuoteOriginally posted by jstevewhite Quote
The one "advantage" crop-sensors have is that they generally have higher pixel pitch... Of course, you have to have optics that resolve sufficient detail to utilize the pixel pitch's detail.
Quite right. My example specified film; the same emulsion in each frame size would have the same resolution. A digital FF cam would have advantages in DOF and FOV for general shooting, which would NOT be advantages for macro work, compared to an APS-C sensor.
05-11-2011, 02:09 AM   #21
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When you go behond 1:1 is is no longer macro by micro.....that is what I was taught by photographers that did a lot of macro and micro photography during the film age...A bellows unit with a reversal lens adaptor plus a 50 manual lens reversed will do the job very well.

Just rmembered something a coluler that will coulper a 50 in reverse to a 135 gets one really close, I did this in the past with a Spotmaitc, belows, 135 and reversed 55...a very steady tripod is a must as well as some flash. This set up wold be great today with digital as one can get the exposure spot on. I tok photos of different broken glass with back lighting many years ago with this setup, I do nothave that equipment anymore...sadely.
05-11-2011, 06:50 AM   #22
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I have found a nice combination of a Kiron 105mm f2.8 PK/A lens + the Tokina AT-X Macro Extender PK/A that goes from 1:25 to 2.25:1 ( roughly) I use this combination with a flash and when at maximum magnification I have about 9cm from the front glass to the subject. Its much simpler to use something like this compared to bellows or extension tubes since you get a better working distance and you can focus wide open without having to stop down manually before the shot.

Here is an example of a tiny baby jumping spider shot at 2.25:1 ( cropped and scaled down to 1024 )
I estimated his size to about 2mm in length.
[IMG]
[/IMG]
05-12-2011, 03:16 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by RioRico Quote
If that's the Rodagon, he's got a nice little treasure there! Especially the Rodagon-N.
Yes it is. I'm really curious how it will perform in its new role once I got bellows and adapters acquired...

05-12-2011, 06:42 AM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by lars.o Quote
Yes it is. I'm really curious how it will perform in its new role once I got bellows and adapters acquired...
Reverse it. It will be noticeably better.
05-12-2011, 08:26 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by yeatzee Quote
Reverse it. It will be noticeably better.
Does it really make a difference when your using an enlarger lens made for well.. enlarging?
05-12-2011, 11:44 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by aliasant Quote
Does it really make a difference when your using an enlarger lens made for well.. enlarging?
Yes, yes it does.
05-12-2011, 11:51 AM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by yeatzee Quote
Yes, yes it does.
Thanx
Is that because we use small frame sensors and the lens was made for something much bigger?
It seems a bit weird that they would design enlarger lenses that works better backwards......
05-12-2011, 03:24 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by aliasant Quote
Thanx
Is that because we use small frame sensors and the lens was made for something much bigger?
It seems a bit weird that they would design enlarger lenses that works better backwards......
I don't have the time to search for the info, but its all on here:

www.photomacrography.net :: Index
05-12-2011, 03:33 PM   #29
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The problem of reversing enlarger lenses: many don't have front threads! And, especially with older USA-made EL's like Wollensack, Apos, and Eastman, if they do have front threads, they may not be metric! Reversal may require dremeling a hole in a body cap, then gluing or taping the lens to the cap.
05-12-2011, 03:35 PM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by RioRico Quote
The problem of reversing enlarger lenses: many don't have front threads! And, especially with older USA-made EL's like Wollensack, Apos, and Eastman, if they do have front threads, they may not be metric! Reversal may require dremeling a hole in a body cap, then gluing or taping the lens to the cap.
Yup, but in the case of most of the ones worth buying for reversal, adapters are readily available on ebay

I just got my reversing ring for my new el nikkor 50mm F/2.8N ($20) and it smoked my Pentax M 50mm F/1.7 stacked with my Pentax F 135mm which I normally use
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