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asdf · 05-31-2011, 03:18 PM

Originally posted by v5planet

I'm not sure whether your first comment was directed at pixie dust or at aikido, but I would take less offense at the former, since it is an aesthetic notion rather than a practical one. Curious to know what your background in aikido is since you are so dismissive of both its efficacy and value to its practitioners.

As for Simon's image -- I agree, the bokeh in it is a bit distracting, and the 43 is clearly best used without a busy background. Regarding the vignetting, I'd be curious to know if it was added in PP or if it was present from GO. Sometimes people enjoy adding those to strengthen their images

I was talking about pixie dust not aikido. Also, I add vignetting in PP sometimes, as well.

asdf · 05-31-2011, 03:20 PM

Originally posted by jstevewhite

So the photographer can't know what lens he's using?

Hmm...How about asking a Canon photographer who hasn't heard of pixie dust to take the shots?

jstevewhite · 05-31-2011, 03:21 PM

Originally posted by asdf

Hmm...How about asking a Canon photographer who hasn't heard of pixie dust to take the shots.

Yeah, but what if he *noticed* it? Wouldn't that contaminate the cohort?

EDIT: Not to mention ruin him for all other marques forever?

v5planet · 05-31-2011, 03:22 PM

Originally posted by asdf

Hmm...How about asking a Canon photographer who hasn't heard of pixie dust to take the shots.

I'm pretty sure Canon users would be too scared of Pentax cooties for that. Probably would be doubly so if you mentioned it was for studying pixie dust.

asdf · 05-31-2011, 03:24 PM

Originally posted by jstevewhite

Yeah, but what if he *noticed* it? Wouldn't that contaminate the cohort?

EDIT: Not to mention ruin him for all other marques forever?

Hmm...as you mentioned before, the task does sound like a PITA.

jstevewhite · 05-31-2011, 03:27 PM

Originally posted by asdf

I was talking about pixie dust not aikido. Also, I add vignetting in PP sometimes, as well.

Oh, yeah? Well, I don't vignette in PP... I use COKIN CREATIVE FILTERS!!!!

( lol... couldn't resist. The other day I came across my cokin set from the late 80s; the only filter I used more than once was the graduated ND - heh! )

For the record, Cokin Creative Filters DO NOT have pixie dust in any form.

Blue · 05-31-2011, 03:47 PM

Originally posted by paperbag846

The FA 43 was designed as a "normal" lens and was bokeh was not its top priority. It should not be surprising, therefore, that they opted to create a lens which sacrifices smooth bokeh for extreme sharpness. I don't quite understand why they went in the totally opposite direction with the FA 50, but it's clear to be which of these two is sharper, and which one has the better bokeh (and how no lens will be the best of both worlds).

You will notice they did the *exact opposite* for the FA 77, which is not the sharpest, but has very pleasing bokeh (it's application as a portrait lens demands this compromise).

Best I can tell and remember, the term bokeh (or boke) have been in use since at least~ 1998 or 1996 for boke. Given the FA 43 was released in 1997, I would say it is safe to say that regardless if it was a 'normal' lens or not, it wouldn't have been designed around the term. I remember these terms being argued about in much the same way this Pixie Dust argument is going.

http://users.rider.edu/~suler/photopsy/bokeh.htm

Faeries, Brownies and Pixies, Oh My!

Last edited by Blue; 05-31-2011 at 03:58 PM.

jstevewhite · 05-31-2011, 03:49 PM

Originally posted by Blue

Best I can tell and remember, the term bokeh (or boke) have been in use since at least~ 1998 or 1996 for boke. Given the FA 43 was released in 1997, I would say it is safe to say that regardless if it was a 'normal' lens or not, it wouldn't have been designed around the term. I remember these terms being argued about in much the same way this Pixie Dust argument is going.

Faeries, Brownies and Pixies, Oh My!

Bokeh! Bah, humbug. It's all in your head! Get off my lawn!

NicoleAu · 05-31-2011, 03:51 PM

When I was looking for portraits done with the 77mm I came across a thread in a forum from a canon user who was over the moon about the results he got from using the 77mm. Actually, here's the link after a quick search Katie, a portrait. Why you should own an FA77 - Steve's Digicams Forums

Todd Adamson · 05-31-2011, 03:51 PM

Originally posted by jstevewhite

Get off my lawn!

This is about the best summation I've seen thus far for the anti-PD movement.

jstevewhite · 05-31-2011, 04:00 PM

Originally posted by Todd Adamson

This is about the best summation I've seen thus far for the anti-PD movement.

Oh, it's a movement? Wow, I didn't even realize.

Blue · 05-31-2011, 04:01 PM

Originally posted by jstevewhite

Oh, it's a movement? Wow, I didn't even realize.

In a few years or sooner, P.D. will be the new bokeh (boke).

Edit: It is well on the way.

Nikon from From 2005:

A magic want and pixie dust: Nikon D3 - D1 / D700 Forum: Digital Photography Review

Canon from 2008: God's Creation - Chris's lens: Pixie Dust

2011: A long-winded dissertation for discussion - learning - Steve's Digicams Forums

asdf · 05-31-2011, 04:09 PM

Originally posted by Blue

In a few years or sooner, P.D. will be the new bokeh (boke).

There is a lens with a bokeh knob (released in 1993):

Nikkor AF 105mm f/2 D DC - Review / Test Report

So are you saying there is a lens with a pd pump on the Pentax roadmap?

v5planet · 05-31-2011, 04:29 PM

Originally posted by asdf

There is a lens with a bokeh knob (released in 1993):

Nikkor AF 105mm f/2 D DC - Review / Test Report

So are you saying there is a lens with a pd pump on the Pentax roadmap?

PD wand.

Blue · 05-31-2011, 04:32 PM

Originally posted by asdf

There is a lens with a bokeh knob (released in 1993):

Nikkor AF 105mm f/2 D DC - Review / Test Report

So are you saying there is a lens with a pd pump on the Pentax roadmap?

I thought SP stood for Super Pixie.

Was that knob actually called the bokeh nob in 1993? They called it the 'Defocus Control.' I have been under the impression that the term was first used by John Kernerdell after that lens was released.

05-31-2011, 04:01 PM	#357
Blue Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Florida Hill Country Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,377	Originally posted by jstevewhite Oh, it's a movement? Wow, I didn't even realize. In a few years or sooner, P.D. will be the new bokeh (boke). Edit: It is well on the way. Nikon from From 2005: A magic want and pixie dust: Nikon D3 - D1 / D700 Forum: Digital Photography Review Canon from 2008: God's Creation - Chris's lens: Pixie Dust 2011: A long-winded dissertation for discussion - learning - Steve's Digicams Forums Last edited by Blue; 05-31-2011 at 04:09 PM.

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05-31-2011, 03:18 PM	#346
asdf Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Canada Posts: 1,252	Originally posted by v5planet I'm not sure whether your first comment was directed at pixie dust or at aikido, but I would take less offense at the former, since it is an aesthetic notion rather than a practical one. Curious to know what your background in aikido is since you are so dismissive of both its efficacy and value to its practitioners. As for Simon's image -- I agree, the bokeh in it is a bit distracting, and the 43 is clearly best used without a busy background. Regarding the vignetting, I'd be curious to know if it was added in PP or if it was present from GO. Sometimes people enjoy adding those to strengthen their images I was talking about pixie dust not aikido. Also, I add vignetting in PP sometimes, as well.

05-31-2011, 03:20 PM	#347
asdf Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Canada Posts: 1,252	Originally posted by jstevewhite So the photographer can't know what lens he's using? Hmm...How about asking a Canon photographer who hasn't heard of pixie dust to take the shots?

05-31-2011, 03:21 PM	#348
jstevewhite Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Midwest Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,407	Originally posted by asdf Hmm...How about asking a Canon photographer who hasn't heard of pixie dust to take the shots. Yeah, but what if he noticed it? Wouldn't that contaminate the cohort? EDIT: Not to mention ruin him for all other marques forever?

05-31-2011, 03:22 PM	#349
v5planet Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Seattle Photos: Albums Posts: 1,915	Originally posted by asdf Hmm...How about asking a Canon photographer who hasn't heard of pixie dust to take the shots. I'm pretty sure Canon users would be too scared of Pentax cooties for that. Probably would be doubly so if you mentioned it was for studying pixie dust.

05-31-2011, 03:24 PM	#350
asdf Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Canada Posts: 1,252	Originally posted by jstevewhite Yeah, but what if he noticed it? Wouldn't that contaminate the cohort? EDIT: Not to mention ruin him for all other marques forever? Hmm...as you mentioned before, the task does sound like a PITA.

05-31-2011, 03:27 PM	#351
jstevewhite Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Midwest Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,407	Originally posted by asdf I was talking about pixie dust not aikido. Also, I add vignetting in PP sometimes, as well. Oh, yeah? Well, I don't vignette in PP... I use COKIN CREATIVE FILTERS!!!! ( lol... couldn't resist. The other day I came across my cokin set from the late 80s; the only filter I used more than once was the graduated ND - heh! ) For the record, Cokin Creative Filters DO NOT have pixie dust in any form.

05-31-2011, 03:47 PM	#352
Blue Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Florida Hill Country Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,377	Originally posted by paperbag846 The FA 43 was designed as a "normal" lens and was bokeh was not its top priority. It should not be surprising, therefore, that they opted to create a lens which sacrifices smooth bokeh for extreme sharpness. I don't quite understand why they went in the totally opposite direction with the FA 50, but it's clear to be which of these two is sharper, and which one has the better bokeh (and how no lens will be the best of both worlds). You will notice they did the exact opposite for the FA 77, which is not the sharpest, but has very pleasing bokeh (it's application as a portrait lens demands this compromise). Best I can tell and remember, the term bokeh (or boke) have been in use since at least~ 1998 or 1996 for boke. Given the FA 43 was released in 1997, I would say it is safe to say that regardless if it was a 'normal' lens or not, it wouldn't have been designed around the term. I remember these terms being argued about in much the same way this Pixie Dust argument is going. http://users.rider.edu/~suler/photopsy/bokeh.htm Faeries, Brownies and Pixies, Oh My! Last edited by Blue; 05-31-2011 at 03:58 PM.

05-31-2011, 03:49 PM	#353
jstevewhite Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Midwest Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,407	Originally posted by Blue Best I can tell and remember, the term bokeh (or boke) have been in use since at least~ 1998 or 1996 for boke. Given the FA 43 was released in 1997, I would say it is safe to say that regardless if it was a 'normal' lens or not, it wouldn't have been designed around the term. I remember these terms being argued about in much the same way this Pixie Dust argument is going. Faeries, Brownies and Pixies, Oh My! Bokeh! Bah, humbug. It's all in your head! Get off my lawn!

05-31-2011, 03:51 PM	#354
NicoleAu Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Central Coast, NSW, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 539	When I was looking for portraits done with the 77mm I came across a thread in a forum from a canon user who was over the moon about the results he got from using the 77mm. Actually, here's the link after a quick search Katie, a portrait. Why you should own an FA77 - Steve's Digicams Forums

05-31-2011, 03:51 PM	#355
Todd Adamson Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Iowa Posts: 722	Originally posted by jstevewhite Get off my lawn! This is about the best summation I've seen thus far for the anti-PD movement.

05-31-2011, 04:00 PM	#356
jstevewhite Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Midwest Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,407	Originally posted by Todd Adamson This is about the best summation I've seen thus far for the anti-PD movement. Oh, it's a movement? Wow, I didn't even realize.

05-31-2011, 04:09 PM	#358
asdf Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Canada Posts: 1,252	Originally posted by Blue In a few years or sooner, P.D. will be the new bokeh (boke). There is a lens with a bokeh knob (released in 1993): Nikkor AF 105mm f/2 D DC - Review / Test Report So are you saying there is a lens with a pd pump on the Pentax roadmap?

05-31-2011, 04:29 PM	#359
v5planet Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Seattle Photos: Albums Posts: 1,915	Originally posted by asdf There is a lens with a bokeh knob (released in 1993): Nikkor AF 105mm f/2 D DC - Review / Test Report So are you saying there is a lens with a pd pump on the Pentax roadmap? PD wand.

05-31-2011, 04:32 PM	#360
Blue Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Florida Hill Country Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,377	Originally posted by asdf There is a lens with a bokeh knob (released in 1993): Nikkor AF 105mm f/2 D DC - Review / Test Report So are you saying there is a lens with a pd pump on the Pentax roadmap? I thought SP stood for Super Pixie. Was that knob actually called the bokeh nob in 1993? They called it the 'Defocus Control.' I have been under the impression that the term was first used by John Kernerdell after that lens was released.