Originally posted by Todd Adamson Can a given photographer, of reasonable talent, produce more interesting images with one lens than another? If not, then I'll go all Ken Rockwell on your ass and trade all of my gear for the Nikon 18-200 VR. But if so, then your statement cannot be critically true.
Sorry, I'm not buying that syllogism. I think it's absolutely true that a talented photographer will make more interesting - "better" - images
with any lens than a less talented photographer can with the same lens. But if you give him the lens *he* wants to use - the one that matches his vision the best - he'll make the best images he can make. But art is an incredibly personal thing, and the artist chooses the tools *he* likes. Artists have painted with palette knives and made some striking work. Others have used very carefully graded brushes in fourteen different sizes and a particular flavor of linseed oil.
Back in high school, before carpal tunnel sidelined my pencil drawing, I used to draw with a technical pencil, a .3 with HB lead. My artist friends were horrified; they used "real" HB pencils. Yet, in the end, I got a better grade and won an art contest. Was the technical pencil better? Not at all. I could have *done* it with the regular pencils - I did, before I discovered the one I ended up using - but because I liked it more, I practiced more...
Quote: Just like a lens, a photographer, or a camera system, or the combination thereof, can have a gestalt, and when we talk about making great images, we can't leave any of that out of the equation. But you seem to be trying to ascribe a definite place of residence to something that many can't even agree exists. It's pretty ethereal. It just isn't that black and white. If we admit that "Pixie Dust" exists in some sense, but is merely a semantic qualification to something that eludes explicit defininition, then sure we can say photographers can have it, too. So can subjects. And days, and moods, and weather, and an infinite array of hypothetical and complex "gestalts." It's not either/or. It's everywhere, and nowhere. It's like the force. It may be here, it may be there. It's absolutely in the FA77, man. I'm not stoned, I swear.
I claim that art originates in the artist, not the tools. I have no problem with your idea of a gestalt, but I believe the system has a motivating force that's ultimately responsible for every decision in the production of the work... the artist. I don't see anything rational or logical that would lead me to believe that lenses are directing artists. There's a motive force that chooses the tools, and like any other art, may choose a pencil or a palette of oils.
This discussion started out about
lenses with "magical" characteristics. I've accepted jsherman's definition of 'pixie dust' as reasonable and objective in principle, and noted his acknowledgement that what constitutes "good bokeh" is subjective. Which was a good portion of my original point, that was
not to suggest that individual lenses do not have discrete characteristics, but that those characteristics are more or less desirable to different individuals, and contain *no magic* but the enthusiasm they inspire in the mind of the artist, and that those discrete differences are far less apparent than many would like to believe.