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View Poll Results: Which lenses to develop in future?
DA 8mm/f4 WR fisheye 406.67%
DA-L 18mm/f4 294.83%
FA 20mm/f2.2 Ltd. 9215.33%
DA 24mm/f2.0 WR 18230.33%
DA 28mm/f2.8 Ltd. 6510.83%
DFA 50mm/f1.0 9315.50%
DA-L 60mm/f2.8 203.33%
DA* 85mm/f1.4 16527.50%
DA-L 90mm/f2.8 274.50%
DA 100mm/f2.4 Ltd. 244.00%
FA 105mm/f1.9 Ltd. 7312.17%
DA* 135mm/f2.0 13622.67%
DFA 200mm/f4 macro WR 10417.33%
DA* 300mm/f2.8 6110.17%
DA 400mm/f5.6 WR 7813.00%
DFA* 500mm/f5.6 9115.17%
DA 600mm/f5.6 WR 6210.33%
DA* 28-70/f2.8 9115.17%
DA 70-200mmf4 SDM WR to compliment 17-70 528.67%
DFA* 80-200mm/f2.8 8013.33%
DA* 135-270mm f2.8 to compliment 16-50/50-135 8013.33%
DA 135-400mm/f4-5.6 WR 10617.67%
DFA* TC 1.4x SDM topquality converter 19933.17%
DFA* TC 2.0x SDM topquality converter 8213.67%
SDM II with faster focussing, new lensversions current DA*. 19933.17%
Sigma lenses are fine for me completing the lens line-up. 254.17%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 600. You may not vote on this poll

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06-04-2011, 04:12 AM - 4 Likes   #1
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Wich lenses to put R&D money in?

Well it just comes up every few weeks. We want a new lens. To complete our lens line-up or just because we where standing somewhere not having the right lens in our bag (not allways due to Pentax, but also we didn't spend enough money).

So here's a big survey to our wishes. When everything would be in production along the current lensline that would make an impressive line-up.

Some of the terms used:
DA means (mainly) designed for APS-C where DFA and FA are designed for Full Frame. The DA-L is the cheap lensline made mainly ff plastics. The * in DA* is the top lens line with the best optics and SDM and top wheatersealing. WR is a medium degree off wheatersealing to resist a drizzle. Ltd says it is a lens in the Limited class, that means mostly designed in metal, there are two lines, the DA and the FA lensline. The 17-70 (and option 70-200) are different in the sence that they are SDM only lenses (as DA*55mm is).

If all where to be completed the lensline looks like:
  • DA 14mm
  • DA-L (all plastic lenses) 18mm – 35mm – 60mm – 90mm
  • DA Ltd 15mm – 21mm – 28mm – 40mm – 70mm – 100mm
  • FA Ltd 20mm – 31mm – 43mm – 77mm - 105mm
  • Macro 35mm – 50mm – 100mm – DFA*200mm
  • DA*primes 55mm – 85mm – 135mm – 200mm – 300mm/4 – 300mm/2.8
  • DA*zooms 16-50mm – 28-70mm – 50-135mm – 60-250mm – 135-270mm
  • DFA* 80-200mm – 500mm
  • DA zoom 12-24mm – 16-45mm – 17-70mm – 18-55mm – 18-135mm – 50-200mm – 55-300 – 135-400
  • WR primes 10mm - 24mm – 400mm – 600mm
  • fisheye 8mm – 10-17mm

As with all those groups, they also have their different pricetag. The FA Ltd serie is expensive, but also top of the line. Choose them if you are willing to pay the top price or just look at DA* or better even a DA lens. Going for a cheap but good lensline then a DA-L would be the best to choose.

You can select 5 different lenses/choices. Think off what you would want/buy or what would complete the Pentax lens line-up to make it attractive for new users off the Pentax dslr system.

As always, things change overtime. Here I will add new ideas that will pop-up in time:
  • Tilt/shift lens for architecture, like DA 18mm/f3.5 WR T/S.
  • DA 10mm/f4 WR, or a DA 10-16mm/f4 WR or DA*11-16mm/f2.8.
  • Updating FA Ltd series with quick shift and WR or turning them into FA* Ltd.
  • Making 17-70mm WR or updating it with a wider range like 15-85mm.
  • DA 45-125mm/f4 to compliment the DA 16-45mm/f4.
  • Superzoomlens like 18-250 or 24-175 or anything alike.
  • Portraitzoom of high quality DA*40-80mm/f2.0 or in that range.
  • DM lensline. Making a new lensline off manual focus lenses with chip, so all communication with camerabody.
  • Convert the TC 1,4x into an extensiontube with full contacts, it is the same product without glass.
  • Expanding the DA* prime's lensline from 20 to 35mm f1.4 with some lenses or a cheap 30 to 35mm f1.9.
  • A fast telelens like DA*400mm/f2.8 or DA*400mm/f4 to fit that bill.
  • Cheaper short tele like DA85mm/f2 WR or DA120mm/f2.8 WR.
  • Cheap DA-L series macro-lens with only 1:2 reach like DA-L 70mm/f4 1:2 macro.

Indicative pricerange for the listed lenses:
  • A < $ 250 -> these are ofcourse the three DA-L lenses.
  • B $ 250 – $ 500 -> 8mm/28mm/135-400mm/1,4xTC/2xTC
  • C $ 500 – $ 1000 -> 24mm/50mm/100mm/70-200
  • D $ 1000 – $ 1500 -> 20mm/85mm/105mm/135mm/400mm/28-70
  • E $ 1500 - $ 2500 -> 200macro/500mm/80-200
  • F > $ 2500 -> The long ends 300/600/135-270mm

For now a first start on conclusions coming out off the poll. This summary was made up at the time that 504 voters made there poll-entry's.

The easy answers:
One way to spend the R&D budget is to highest usergroup demand:
  1. DFA*1,4x Tele Converter. There is currently no TC available for Pentax digital camera..
  2. SDM-II design with more reliabillity and faster Auto Focus and implementing them into the current SDM lenses and future new SDM lenses.
  3. DA 24mm/f2.0 WR is the highest rated lens in the survey. There is some logic to it, since it is an old an good lensdesign and there is no other prime in the widerange that futures WR.
  4. DA*85mm/f1.4 is the second lens to stand out on the survey. An expensive lens, but with the FA*85mm/f1.4 as a predecessor it is to be expected that there is a demand for such a great lens.
  5. DA*135mm/f2.0 is the third lens to stand out in the survey. A fast telelens that is good for concert, long lens portrait and sports (especially indoor sportsarena's) to name. An expensive lens, but with some good prospects among the Pentax userbase. With limited demand from usergroup.
These five are among the readers of this forum favorite and there is a good reason to beleave that they will be appreciated among current and future Pentax DSLR users worldwide to some extend. Having an updated and improved SDM-II version to make up for shortcomings of the current SDM (AF-performance in current lenses on K-5 isn't up to the speed off the camera anymore) will be good for Pentax brand. The other four choices are specialty choices, but all are adding a complete new lenschoice (or the TC) to the Pentax lens-lineup.

Is this forum a good representation for the Pentax DSLR userbase? When you look at this https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-k-5-forum/119323-k-5-owners-where-do-you-live.html you can see that there is a real tendency to USA and Europe and that Asia (and Pentax's homeland Japan) is less active on this forum. So there may be well some other choices to make since the preference of Asian usergroup coult be different.


Discussion on the results: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-slr-lens-discussion/149081-results...velopment.html


Last edited by RonHendriks1966; 01-06-2012 at 05:53 AM.
06-04-2011, 04:31 AM   #2
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Interesting concept Ron, but I think you're mixing APS-C and FF focal lengths together, and adding in an FA ltd that doesn't seem feasible when there already is a decent DA ltd lineup.

DA L lenses might be expanded on by another lens or two, but by then beginners would be wanting a DA ltd, so I don't see much in adding DA Ls.

A 200mm macro sounds like something Pentax could implement, but sounds like it would follow the FA* formula and become a DA*.

An 85mm DA* lens seems unlikely as the 55 became the new 85 for APS-C, unless FF is coming in, but then it would be a DFA (or DFA*?). Same with the 28-70 and 135; but the 300/2.8 is another issue. If Pentax are willing to invest in its development, it would surely attract some wildlife and sports putners - they'd have to follow up with a 400 and 500mm prime, perhaps also with a modern 250-600...

A 135-270 sounds like it's not going to offer much more than what the 60-250 already does. Perhaps more range at the long end may be warranted for this DA* zoom...

Also don't know what to think about the DA 135-400 - doesn't sound like a consumer zoom with a consumer price tag...

Ambitious list, but interesting...
06-04-2011, 05:23 AM   #3
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The lenses I would like to see are not on the list!

Thay's part of the problem. Everyone has different ideas and so you end up with a catch all that doesn't please that many.

FWIW, history has generally shown that the zoom ranges are well covered by the independants. Look at any "advice" thread and so many people suggest Sigma, Tamron etc as being better/cheaper etc.

For me then, I would like some of the "holes" in the prime range plugged. After all it has been where Pentax has been the strongest.

I abstain!!! LOL

Kim
06-04-2011, 05:36 AM   #4
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Just made a walk with my dog and came to my sences. I didn't make a single picture of a building this year and that is why there is no tilt/shift lens on this list. Shame on me, because there are people who woult want such a lens!

QuoteOriginally posted by Ash Quote
Interesting concept Ron, but I think you're mixing APS-C and FF focal lengths together, and adding in an FA ltd that doesn't seem feasible when there already is a decent DA ltd lineup.

DA L lenses might be expanded on by another lens or two, but by then beginners would be wanting a DA ltd, so I don't see much in adding DA Ls.

A 200mm macro sounds like something Pentax could implement, but sounds like it would follow the FA* formula and become a DA*.

An 85mm DA* lens seems unlikely as the 55 became the new 85 for APS-C, unless FF is coming in, but then it would be a DFA (or DFA*?). Same with the 28-70 and 135; but the 300/2.8 is another issue. If Pentax are willing to invest in its development, it would surely attract some wildlife and sports putners - they'd have to follow up with a 400 and 500mm prime, perhaps also with a modern 250-600...

A 135-270 sounds like it's not going to offer much more than what the 60-250 already does. Perhaps more range at the long end may be warranted for this DA* zoom...

Also don't know what to think about the DA 135-400 - doesn't sound like a consumer zoom with a consumer price tag...

Ambitious list, but interesting...
Ash you are very good in seeing things. I did make a mix of different things, putting apples and pears together. But there is a little plan behind it to make it more plausible.

If you are a step-up photographer, coming from P&S or just new into dslr then you probably start with a K-r and maybe the 18-55 kitlens. For those newcomers (or people who just don't want to spend a fortune on their hobby) there is the DA-L lens range. At the time just the new 35mm/f2.4 wich is a real bang for the buck lens. I think it would be great to offer a larger range off lenses to those Pentax photographers that I would catagorise as hobby/family camera users. That's why there is as you also notice a market for a few extra lenses.

Then there is the Full Frame mission. When new lenses are designed, what about the compatability with Full Frame sensor. I think you are right that 28-70 and 85 should be DFA* to work with FF (see below). Mainly for FF the FA Ltd range is the lens line-up, that's why the new lenses. The FF camera is for people who are using it either proffessionally or are amateurs with deep pockets. Such a camera with the FA Ltd lensrange and the DFA* lenses make a good team, from 20mm to 500mm (or 700mm with TC) and will cost a fortune!

For APS-C I thought off mainly having a full system. Used on either now K-5 or K-r or future camera in that segment. Don't spoil glass designed for FF on a small sensor, but make the lenses small and off good quality (so making DA*28-70 and DA*85mm would be possible). Giving a pro-grade DA* lens line and below that the Ltd. series and for step-up the cheap DA-L. There are some lenses that are the same, like DFA*80-200 and DA*135-270, so make a choice there. The DA*135-270/f2.8 is an APS-C version of Sigma's 120-300mm/f2.8 with narrower reach and smaller circle for APS-C making this lens much smaller then the Sigma version and completing the DA*zoom lenses (covering from 16-to270mm in f2.8 or expanding it to 378mm/f4 with a 1.4x TC).

The DA135-400 is a different lens. Not to cheap, but not to expensive. Who is it for? I think it is for soccermoms and hockeydads who are beside a sportsfield every weekend and want a good but not to expensive super long zoom.

QuoteOriginally posted by Kim C Quote
The lenses I would like to see are not on the list!

Thay's part of the problem. Everyone has different ideas and so you end up with a catch all that doesn't please that many.

For me then, I would like some of the "holes" in the prime range plugged. After all it has been where Pentax has been the strongest.

Kim
Wich one's would you like to see?


Last edited by RonHendriks1966; 06-04-2011 at 05:44 AM.
06-04-2011, 06:21 AM   #5
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Most of these were "no brainers" for me.
I like to shoot wide so a good WA/WR lens would be very nice to have, maybe even wider than 24mm; but a 24mm fastish WR lens would be very nice.

Long range macro. I've been lusting after a FA*200mm macro for the longest time, so the DFA 200mm macro is definitely something I'd want. WR is nice too!

I love my K 135 f/2.5 lens. A newer AF version with WR would be perfect. F/2.0 makes it even more desireable.

The only thing about a f/2.8 135-270 that worries me is the size of the thing. I wouldn't mind if it was f/4.0 to make it more manageable. And increase the range to 300mm or 320mm to keep it from competing with the 60-250.

I think that everybody can agree that SDM needs some big time help...

NaCl(nice "wish list" Ron)H2O
06-04-2011, 06:28 AM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by NaClH2O Quote
The only thing about a f/2.8 135-270 that worries me is the size of the thing. I wouldn't mind if it was f/4.0 to make it more manageable. And increase the range to 300mm or 320mm to keep it from competing with the 60-250.

NaCl(nice "wish list" Ron)H2O
Funny, I read this just before you added the 60-250, that is why I looked into the f2.8 range. One off my lenses on the wishlist is Sigma's 120-300mm/f2.8 since I want a longer f2.8 lens to use in sportsarena's where f4.0 isn't the best option (like in a swimming arena). The sigma is 3 kg so having it smaller, less reach and only APS-C would make it mayby 2 kg and that is attractive to me. A 1,4x TC would complete that series of DA* zoomlenses.

This looks like going to produce a nice Lens roadmap when completed and like 100+ voters have contributed.
06-04-2011, 06:42 AM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote

Wich one's would you like to see?
Ones of my favourite Lens combinations I use with the film bodies is 15/20/24/35. Of these I can only really cover the 20 in APS ie 14mm for 20. I would like a fully corrected (rather than fisheye) 10mm to cver the 15 area, an 18 for the 24 and a 24mm for the the 35.

In reality I would be happy with the a 10 and perhaps the 18. I can cover the rest using FF lenses.

Kim
06-04-2011, 06:46 AM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kim C Quote
Ones of my favourite Lens combinations I use with the film bodies is 15/20/24/35. Of these I can only really cover the 20 in APS ie 14mm for 20. I would like a fully corrected (rather than fisheye) 10mm to cver the 15 area, an 18 for the 24 and a 24mm for the the 35.

In reality I would be happy with the a 10 and perhaps the 18. I can cover the rest using FF lenses.

Kim
Is that right to say you want a DA10mm/f4 rectangular. For 18 there is a DA-L on the list and a 24mm is also on the list. And your biggest wish is a FF body.

06-04-2011, 07:06 AM   #9
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I personally would like to see: (1) Fast wide angle around 20mm, (2) Real ring type in lens motors with better durability and speed and (3) Updates to the FA limiteds to make them have quick shift and weather sealing.
06-04-2011, 07:13 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I personally would like to see: (1) Fast wide angle around 20mm, (2) Real ring type in lens motors with better durability and speed and (3) Updates to the FA limiteds to make them have quick shift and weather sealing.
(1) Well fast 20mm would be a new FA Ltd lens.
(2) Investing in SDM II system.
(3) There are two options, having quick shift is nice, but turning them into FA* Ltd with SDM and wheater sealing is another option.
06-04-2011, 07:34 AM   #11
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I've got a warm feeling just thinking aboot a 135-270/2.8....and a Pentax sdm 1.4x TC.
06-04-2011, 07:40 AM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by cmohr Quote
I've got a warm feeling just thinking aboot a 135-270/2.8....and a Pentax sdm 1.4x TC.
That is my feeling aswell and why such a strange lens came to the list. Typical Pentax lens I think. Two times zoom makes the development easy and loosing 10 % on the long end compared to Sigma makes it still a very versatile tool with some cropping.
06-04-2011, 07:50 AM   #13
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If the sdm issues aren't conclusively and decisively addressed and possibly including a 3 year warranty I fail to see an sdm much less DA* lenses selling well. Now that Pentax has increased the market share, they can not afford a repeat of the DA* 16-50mm fiasco and sdm issues that are still rearing their ugly head.
06-04-2011, 08:53 AM   #14
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Yeah 18 DA-L so I may as well use one of the better zooms It's a shame, just a couple of weeks ago I hesited and missed out on a Zeiss 18mm. I think I'm going to regret that!

I think that is one of the problems with your list and almost the way Pentax is going. I can understand and support the need for "cheap" entry level zooms and even the 35/2.4 in the same way they used to have the 50/2 on the cheaper film bodies.

For the rest of the range, they had a set of primes which gradually went through K, M, A and then a reduced range in F and FA. Within the "popular" sizes there was generally a cheaper but slower alternative and a fast generally very good version. Adding a * to the premium lenses in A and F/FA's was fine but now the DA, DA*, DA-L, WR, Ltds etc makes things too complex. Why not just make all the lenses WR?

As to a FF body, I never asked for one I use FF lenses on the film bodies. So for the 24, I can use the 24/2.8K, the 24/2.8A or in the next day or so the Zeiss 25!

Kim

QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
Is that right to say you want a DA10mm/f4 rectangular. For 18 there is a DA-L on the list and a 24mm is also on the list. And your biggest wish is a FF body.
06-04-2011, 09:14 AM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kim C Quote
Yeah 18 DA-L so I may as well use one of the better zooms It's a shame, just a couple of weeks ago I hesited and missed out on a Zeiss 18mm. I think I'm going to regret that!

For the rest of the range, they had a set of primes which gradually went through K, M, A and then a reduced range in F and FA. Within the "popular" sizes there was generally a cheaper but slower alternative and a fast generally very good version. Adding a * to the premium lenses in A and F/FA's was fine but now the DA, DA*, DA-L, WR, Ltds etc makes things too complex. Why not just make all the lenses WR?

Kim
Well one thing that happened is the wider range of zoomlenses that most people just use, making the market smaller for primes. Having a small marketshare makes it for Pentax even harder to setup a good line off excellent prime-lenses.

The DA-L is a series of lenses costing like $200 at max. Bringing prime lenses back to starters in dslr. They are offcourse no comparison to Zeiss lenses. A shop in Germany still has some off those in stock and 18mm is 1199 euro. For that there is still a choice in the list and that is the FA 20mm/f2.2 Ltd wich should give topquality for a high price. This FA 20mm/2.2 Ltd is like the APS-C version FOV as that FA 31mm/f1.8 Ltd gives you on FF. As much as the FA Ltd series is wanted, most Pentax shooters will never own one.

Making all lenses WR? Well that is a good idea, but for starters Pentax should stop making non-WR camera's like K-r or P&S. Making the change to WR-only is a good marketingtool, but then also P&S, 645D, dslr and systemcamera's need to go that same direction.
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