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06-08-2011, 06:46 AM   #1
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New Lensline: Pentax DM-WR, manual focus only!

Well here a second new thread coming out off the lenssurvey. First off all to give credits to this to the starter of the subject:

QuoteOriginally posted by freewheeler Quote
Is it just me or would more people embrace a DM-WR series ?
Yes manual focus, with auto-aperture and APS-C format and modern lens disign and coating.
Could be even smaller than the m; better build than de A and maybe even WR
but at a reasonable price due the lack of AF.
Since Voigtländer stopt producing SL ii series and Zeiss forgot about us too,
we, MF lovers are depending on old and rare lenses for high quality.
This in the thread: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-slr-lens-discussion/146454-wich-le...r-d-money.html where the poll and discussion could still use your attention.

For me this is a rather new subject since I only run DA, DA* and FA* lenses in my camerabag. I have one M35mm/f2 lens but I hardly ever use it and the few times I did was only for movie with use off aperture.

So the question is:
Is there a demand for such a new lensline and with wich lens should it be started? Since this new Pentax DM - WR lensline is not the next hobby for Hoya, there should also be a return on investment. So there has to be a strong enough demand for such a lens and there has to be payed a high enough price to make te total concept profitable.

As with other concepts, like the latest DA 35mm/f2.4 lens made off plastic there is within Pentax room for making new choices and trying them out in the market. As long as the expectations are good enough. So there could be room for an experiment in this new DM line.

For wich users are these lenses? Are they current users of the Pentax DSLR series or are they coming from elsware and does this make the brand more attractive?

I make some guestions and expectations for the lens series. So I think it should be WR as stated. Should be chipped so fully functional on the camera (also aperture) only manual in focus. Is this a correct assumption? They should be hi-grade lenses to make a small sales volume profitable.

I looked around and see that Voigtlander and Zeiss are making these lenses, just not anymore for Pentax. The price for Zeiss is very high, but Voigtlander is to me more mediumpriced.

Wich lens to start off is very important, since that is the one lens to make a difference between a succes for the lensline or dying out after the first copy.

A quote from the survey:
QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
If they did that I would love to see a re-release of the SMCP-K 28mm f/2 - which is a zeiss design.
So I looked into this lens, no idea about what it is:
A store in Germany:
Audiophil-Foto - Objektive > Pentax asking 1099 euro for the zeiss.

Ebay prices for the old Pentax lens:

Wow 350 euro for an old lens.

Bdimitrov: K 28/2

So there is a lensdesign ready to use for Pentax.

Looking at the current lensline and the survey in the Poll there is a nice gap in the current lens line-up leaving space for such a lens at 28mm/f2!

What to improve on this lens? Only coatings, or is there a lot to bealtered to make it good for future use as a first DM lens? ED-glas or whatever? Is it easy to implement aperture stearing from the camera or does it mean just contact between lens and camera of knowing what aperture is chosen, but manual aperture settings?

Is this the first lens or should there be a different lens looked at?

The place to discuus this new DM-WR manual lensline.

06-08-2011, 07:07 AM   #2
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Well I brought up the 28mm f/2 lens because Zeiss(cosina) have stopped producing lenses for pentax K mount - so if pentax could re-tool and make use of designs they have used in the past. I think a move like that would be quite lucrative for pentax.

It would also mean pentax could re-release the SMCP-K 50mm f/1.2 and update it with ghostless coatings, fully chipped ( and perhaps cram in an aspherical lens in there, like nikon did with the Noct-nikkor) - the ghostless coating would be great because my SMCP-K 50mm f/1.2 ghosts really badly ( though it's always in the red channel, easy to correct with some channel shifting - but it's an annoying trait)

It would be AWESOME if pentax kept the aperture rings if they did produce a line of manual focus lenses, it's the thing I miss most with my DA15mm f/4.

Another thought is that since the lenses are manual focus, have distance scales and feature a manually controllable aperture you could put in a switch that could shift the ball bearing they use to make the click stops on the lenses aperture rings, and make the aperture movable in a smooth continuous fashion - i'm sure some movie makers with K-5's would just love lenses with features like that, especially if the lenses had rounded apertures with 9 blades...but why stop there? how about 12 blades?

Last edited by Digitalis; 06-08-2011 at 07:23 AM.
06-08-2011, 08:11 AM   #3
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How about using and improving the A28/2.0; A85/1.4, and indeed the 50/1.2 for a start ?
06-08-2011, 08:49 AM   #4
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theese are, indeed, to most use lense by us, the fellow pentaxian

06-08-2011, 08:59 AM   #5
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What does DM stand for? Digital Manual?
06-08-2011, 09:08 AM   #6
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Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by sajah Quote
What does DM stand for? Digital Manual?
Digital optimiced lenses with Manual focus only I guess. I'm not the inventor off the term.
06-08-2011, 09:46 AM   #7
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Yes indeed, that's the idea.
Zeiss lenses are too big and too expensive and not for PKA produced anymore.
Voigtlander produced the SL ii series of wich I have, and love, 3 lenses.
The demand for MF lenses may be not huge but is it big enough, thats the question.
Are there enough people out there that would like Pentax to produce affortable lenses,
not giving up on decent built but skipping AF instead.
Solid metal construction, APS-c format, modern coatings, WR, round diafragm, chip etc
but no AF, though smooth focussing and great handling.
06-08-2011, 03:42 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by freewheeler Quote
Are there enough people out there that would like Pentax to produce affortable lenses,
not giving up on decent built but skipping AF instead.
Solid metal construction, APS-c format, modern coatings, WR, round diafragm, chip etc
but no AF, though smooth focussing and great handling.

This is a contradiction. The problem is affordable. Manual focus lenses are probably more expensive for Pentax to manufacture.
Pentax chief lens designer said more than ten years ago that if Pentax started to remake the A* 135/1.8, without any modifications, it would cost at least $1600. Now that was ten years ago...
The only lenses that will be affordable are lenses manufactured in large series....

06-08-2011, 04:54 PM   #9
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People want metal lenses that are nice to manually focus, fast, etc.

That's an FA ltd. I don't think enough of us are buying them for them to consider expanding that lineup.

I also don't think many of us would buy a new MF lens when we could get a very similar thing on the used market for alot less.

That's what Ziess found... and their lenses are at least unique to the lineup!

I'd like to see DA ltd versions of the old primes... slightly slower apertures, vastly smaller lenses, snappy autofocus + quickshift... that's the future.

Remember... EVILs are going to get really good. We should value tiny, tiny lenses.
06-08-2011, 04:57 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
Well I brought up the 28mm f/2 lens because Zeiss(cosina) have stopped producing lenses for pentax K mount - so if pentax could re-tool and make use of designs they have used in the past. I think a move like that would be quite lucrative for pentax.

It would also mean pentax could re-release the SMCP-K 50mm f/1.2 and update it with ghostless coatings, fully chipped ( and perhaps cram in an aspherical lens in there, like nikon did with the Noct-nikkor) - the ghostless coating would be great because my SMCP-K 50mm f/1.2 ghosts really badly ( though it's always in the red channel, easy to correct with some channel shifting - but it's an annoying trait)

It would be AWESOME if pentax kept the aperture rings if they did produce a line of manual focus lenses, it's the thing I miss most with my DA15mm f/4.

Another thought is that since the lenses are manual focus, have distance scales and feature a manually controllable aperture you could put in a switch that could shift the ball bearing they use to make the click stops on the lenses aperture rings, and make the aperture movable in a smooth continuous fashion - i'm sure some movie makers with K-5's would just love lenses with features like that, especially if the lenses had rounded apertures with 9 blades...but why stop there? how about 12 blades?
^ this.

I would not buy one if it did not have an aperture ring....
06-08-2011, 05:07 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
This is a contradiction. The problem is affordable. Manual focus lenses are probably more expensive for Pentax to manufacture.
Pentax chief lens designer said more than ten years ago that if Pentax started to remake the A* 135/1.8, without any modifications, it would cost at least $1600. Now that was ten years ago...
The only lenses that will be affordable are lenses manufactured in large series....
I don't buy that argument. I would be no different than building the LTD lenses only they lack the af screw drive. Plus, I bet the labor costs have shifted etc. as has the glass manufacturing process. That A* 135/1.8 was a 7/6 lens just like the FA 77/1.8 only the elements were huge which was typical of the A* lenses.
06-08-2011, 07:21 PM   #12
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If a huge hunk of glass like the 50/1.2 was produced in a limited number, what would prevent it from being $500-1000 like the VL/Zeiss lenses were/are?

I'd LOVE a modern manual lens line with classic build quality and feel...but I can't imagine a 28/2 (the "Hollywood" Distagon) being less than a grand. And then why wouldn't I just seek out a K28/2 or an actual Zeiss Distagon (and modify the camera mount a bit) for what...$300-600?

But I didn't read the original thread on this topic so maybe I'm missing something
06-08-2011, 08:41 PM   #13
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Maybe I'm jumping in late on the conversation, but can somebody explain what the advantage would be to having a manual-focus-only lens? Because to me it certainly sounds like a great reason to NOT buy the lens. Is there a significant size/weight/cost/handling advantage? It seems like if the AF was screw-driven, it wouldn't require too much extra hardware to have autofocus.

Or is it primarily a romantic concept inspired by nostalgia that I don't really get because I never shot pre-digital? Kind of like getting a stick shift in a modern sports car when the automatic offers better performance?

Last edited by Edgar_in_Indy; 06-08-2011 at 09:05 PM.
06-08-2011, 09:03 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by Edgar_in_Indy Quote
Maybe I'm jumping in late on the conversation, but can somebody explain what the advantage would be to having a manual-focus-only lens? Because to me it certainly sounds like a great reason to NOT buy the lens. Is there a significant size/weight/cost/handling advantage? It seems like if the AF was screw-driven, it wouldn't require too much extra hardware to have autofocus.

Or is it primarily a romantic concept inspired by nostalgia that I don't really get because I never shot pre-digital? Kind of like getting a stick shift in a modern sports car when the automatic officers better performance?
I never shot film until after shooting digital. Check the differences between our signatures and that should reveal something

You need to try an old manual lens!
06-08-2011, 09:29 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
I would be no different than building the LTD lenses only they lack the af screw drive
Blue has a point, the FA limited lenses use helicoids just like the older pentax manual focus lenses do - they are made of aluminium and mechanically they aren't all that different from the construction of the A series lenses - apart from the FA electronics and AF couplings.
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