will the da*50-135 become a '$900 doorstop' when full-frame is released?

photographyrich1965 · 11-14-2007, 03:09 PM

Full frame is not the holy grail. I sold my 5D and several "L" lenses after being a hardcore Canon user for several years. The 50-135/ K10D is a sweet setup. The images I get with it have tooth. A certain film like quality that's hard to quantify but has prompted me to tackle photography with more zeal than I've had in years.

richwindowk111207.jpg on Flickr - Photo Sharing!

DAP · 11-15-2007, 06:40 PM

Just as a side note to everybody out there who goes out of their way to hunt down ff lenses in the off chance that Pentax might release a ff camera anytime soon - what makes you think that the older pentax "screwdriver" in-camera AF motor/mechanism will continue to be supported in the future? They seem to be going the way of USM. They dropped the aperture simulator in the lens mount a couple of years ago to save costs - I'm willing to bet the screwdriver af motor costs a lot more to build into cameras than the simulator did. Just think - All those coveted FA and FA* lenses might become "doorstops" down the road.

Just playing devils advocate

hll · 11-16-2007, 04:19 AM

Originally posted by roy

my main reason for not buying DA lenses.. eventually threre will be a FF. it'll probably have an option to shoot in aps-c format tho.

what about this idea??? isn't it possible???

halil

roentarre · 11-16-2007, 03:38 PM

Originally posted by DAP

Just as a side note to everybody out there who goes out of their way to hunt down ff lenses in the off chance that Pentax might release a ff camera anytime soon - what makes you think that the older pentax "screwdriver" in-camera AF motor/mechanism will continue to be supported in the future? They seem to be going the way of USM. They dropped the aperture simulator in the lens mount a couple of years ago to save costs - I'm willing to bet the screwdriver af motor costs a lot more to build into cameras than the simulator did. Just think - All those coveted FA and FA* lenses might become "doorstops" down the road.

Seems rather scary. You scared me a lot there.

But Fa Fa* might be obsolete after another 10 years at least?

thePiRaTE!! · 11-16-2007, 06:04 PM

Not to worry. Pentax just ran an ad here in Canada touting their body mount anti-shake makes '40,000' lenses anti-shake. It seems they know their strengths and are playing into them (ie long history and lots of old lenses out there, and the fact they can all benefit at least somewhat from modern technology).

I think we all know a Pentax FF will happen someday, and also that it would seem illogical to leave any lenses behind, be they m42, APS-C or otherwise. Life is good and its getting better

rvannatta · 11-16-2007, 07:45 PM

Originally posted by thePiRaTE!!

Not to worry. Pentax just ran an ad here in Canada touting their body mount anti-shake makes '40,000' lenses anti-shake. It seems they know their strengths and are playing into them (ie long history and lots of old lenses out there, and the fact they can all benefit at least somewhat from modern technology).

I think we all know a Pentax FF will happen someday, and also that it would seem illogical to leave any lenses behind, be they m42, APS-C or otherwise. Life is good and its getting better

FF only has value if it means better photos. With 14mp and then 20 mp possible with the current frame larger offers no value. There is no problem recording on the current sensor,
or at least by the time of the next sensor, all the detail the optics will resolve.

The range between the maximum capacity of the optics and the customer needed resolution
provides working space for future 'electronic zoom' aka in camera cropping.

The next generation digital camera will surely come with an electronic viewfinder and electronic zoom --With electronic cropping/zoom a high quality lens such as the 50-135
and even a 14 mp sensor on the APS-C format, that lens can become effectively an extreme telephoto while still providing mp count of the K100 today.

The electronic zoom is an obvious feature waiting tohappen, but to make it work and still produce high quality photos we need high quality glass, and Mp's to burn.

The DA* optics are the high quality glass, and the MP's are getting there. I would venture
to say that the K family of pentax bodies will the the last withOUT an electronic zoom
Once you dump the optical viewing and go to an electronic view finder, and electronic zoom is almost a no brainer and with a 14 or 20 mp sensor it could produce photos with a 2 or 3 x
electronic zoom as good as we get today. with our K series products.

*isteve · 11-16-2007, 08:34 PM

Originally posted by 123K10D

i'm seriously thinking of investing the $ in a da*50-135, but i really don't like the thought of getting something this expensive that will become unusable when full-frame (eventually) comes to pentax.

is there a full-frame alternative available that has the same optical magnificence?

cheers.

If a larger format sensor comes to Pentax it will be their top-of-the-range model. APSC format cameras will still exist alongside. Its more likely that APSC and FF formats will each nestle into their own little niche with FF being aimed at pros and the APSC format for the rest of us. Whether FF will ever become mainstream (eg will hit the $1000 mark) is another issue but you will get a lot of use out of your DA* lenses in the meantime.

rvannatta · 11-16-2007, 10:44 PM

Originally posted by *isteve

If a larger format sensor comes to Pentax it will be their top-of-the-range model. APSC format cameras will still exist alongside. Its more likely that APSC and FF formats will each nestle into their own little niche with FF being aimed at pros and the APSC format for the rest of us. Whether FF will ever become mainstream (eg will hit the $1000 mark) is another issue but you will get a lot of use out of your DA* lenses in the meantime.

I suppose part of that depends on what happens to the 645, but 35mm happened in the first place not because it was the best size on the planet for film, but rather because someone had the idea of making a still camera that would take sections of movie film.

Once we quit buying scraps of unused movie film to use in our 35m camera, the size was only a tradition. With an electronic sensor the physical size of the sensor is irrelevant. As the technology to make the sensors more dense develops it makes sense for the sensors to get smaller not larger. PResently the APS-C larger format provides a quality edge over the P & S cameras, but what future is there for the APS-C format if the P & S evolves to where
it can consistently provide quality as good as the APS-C.

portrait studios don't use 8x10" view cameras much because smaller formats will do the job.
The paparazzi don't need to carry speed Graphics and full frame is an ego trip. Granted the 35mm format has served us well for around 70 years and I have used it for 40 of those years
and have a collection of FF lenses ranging from a 15mm SMC-A to a 600MM SMC-A and most of the primes inbetween. But shucks, I"ve got a collection of 8" floppy disks too....

thePiRaTE!! · 11-17-2007, 11:08 AM

I think we see the value of a larger sensor differently. By having it be 35mm, you get all the resolution available and more image to work with. I'd rather decide myself if I wanted my pics cropped, rather than having it imposed by the sensor. The more real estate I can capture the better! If I could sling a large format camera around my neck and run amok, I would switch in an instant. So perhaps its simply preferrence.

I disagree that digital zoom will be a factor for SLRs. On P&S, sure, a big 'x' factor will push units out the door, but I would generalize that SLR users aren't motivated by such trickery. In this era of RAW shooting, many of the 'features' even in the K10 are bypassed (all the internal post editing features) Its an extremely easy thing to do to crop ones photos afterwards, along with all the other standard adjustments. Even if a lens has silly, silly IQ and you have 58MP, your still going to be working with a finite ability to 'see' things far away, based on the glass or we would all just have a wide angle on and crop everything we didn't need.

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11-14-2007, 03:09 PM	#31
photographyrich1965 Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 33	Full frame is not the holy grail. I sold my 5D and several "L" lenses after being a hardcore Canon user for several years. The 50-135/ K10D is a sweet setup. The images I get with it have tooth. A certain film like quality that's hard to quantify but has prompted me to tackle photography with more zeal than I've had in years. richwindowk111207.jpg on Flickr - Photo Sharing!

11-15-2007, 06:40 PM	#32
DAP Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 151	Just as a side note to everybody out there who goes out of their way to hunt down ff lenses in the off chance that Pentax might release a ff camera anytime soon - what makes you think that the older pentax "screwdriver" in-camera AF motor/mechanism will continue to be supported in the future? They seem to be going the way of USM. They dropped the aperture simulator in the lens mount a couple of years ago to save costs - I'm willing to bet the screwdriver af motor costs a lot more to build into cameras than the simulator did. Just think - All those coveted FA and FA* lenses might become "doorstops" down the road. Just playing devils advocate

11-16-2007, 04:19 AM	#33
hll Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: new york Photos: Gallery Posts: 297	Originally posted by roy my main reason for not buying DA lenses.. eventually threre will be a FF. it'll probably have an option to shoot in aps-c format tho. what about this idea??? isn't it possible??? halil

11-16-2007, 03:38 PM	#34
roentarre Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 11,783	Originally posted by DAP Just as a side note to everybody out there who goes out of their way to hunt down ff lenses in the off chance that Pentax might release a ff camera anytime soon - what makes you think that the older pentax "screwdriver" in-camera AF motor/mechanism will continue to be supported in the future? They seem to be going the way of USM. They dropped the aperture simulator in the lens mount a couple of years ago to save costs - I'm willing to bet the screwdriver af motor costs a lot more to build into cameras than the simulator did. Just think - All those coveted FA and FA* lenses might become "doorstops" down the road. Seems rather scary. You scared me a lot there. But Fa Fa* might be obsolete after another 10 years at least?

11-16-2007, 06:04 PM	#35
thePiRaTE!! Inactive Account Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Calgary, AB Photos: Gallery Posts: 942	Not to worry. Pentax just ran an ad here in Canada touting their body mount anti-shake makes '40,000' lenses anti-shake. It seems they know their strengths and are playing into them (ie long history and lots of old lenses out there, and the fact they can all benefit at least somewhat from modern technology). I think we all know a Pentax FF will happen someday, and also that it would seem illogical to leave any lenses behind, be they m42, APS-C or otherwise. Life is good and its getting better

11-16-2007, 07:45 PM	#36
rvannatta Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Apiary, Oregon Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,181	Originally posted by thePiRaTE!! Not to worry. Pentax just ran an ad here in Canada touting their body mount anti-shake makes '40,000' lenses anti-shake. It seems they know their strengths and are playing into them (ie long history and lots of old lenses out there, and the fact they can all benefit at least somewhat from modern technology). I think we all know a Pentax FF will happen someday, and also that it would seem illogical to leave any lenses behind, be they m42, APS-C or otherwise. Life is good and its getting better FF only has value if it means better photos. With 14mp and then 20 mp possible with the current frame larger offers no value. There is no problem recording on the current sensor, or at least by the time of the next sensor, all the detail the optics will resolve. The range between the maximum capacity of the optics and the customer needed resolution provides working space for future 'electronic zoom' aka in camera cropping. The next generation digital camera will surely come with an electronic viewfinder and electronic zoom --With electronic cropping/zoom a high quality lens such as the 50-135 and even a 14 mp sensor on the APS-C format, that lens can become effectively an extreme telephoto while still providing mp count of the K100 today. The electronic zoom is an obvious feature waiting tohappen, but to make it work and still produce high quality photos we need high quality glass, and Mp's to burn. The DA* optics are the high quality glass, and the MP's are getting there. I would venture to say that the K family of pentax bodies will the the last withOUT an electronic zoom Once you dump the optical viewing and go to an electronic view finder, and electronic zoom is almost a no brainer and with a 14 or 20 mp sensor it could produce photos with a 2 or 3 x electronic zoom as good as we get today. with our K series products.

11-16-2007, 08:34 PM	#37
*isteve Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: London, England Posts: 1,187	Originally posted by 123K10D i'm seriously thinking of investing the $ in a da50-135, but i really don't like the thought of getting something this expensive that will become unusable when full-frame (eventually) comes to pentax. is there a full-frame alternative available that has the same optical magnificence? cheers. If a larger format sensor comes to Pentax it will be their top-of-the-range model. APSC format cameras will still exist alongside. Its more likely that APSC and FF formats will each nestle into their own little niche with FF being aimed at pros and the APSC format for the rest of us. Whether FF will ever become mainstream (eg will hit the $1000 mark) is another issue but you will get a lot of use out of your DA lenses in the meantime.

11-16-2007, 10:44 PM	#38
rvannatta Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Apiary, Oregon Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,181	Originally posted by isteve If a larger format sensor comes to Pentax it will be their top-of-the-range model. APSC format cameras will still exist alongside. Its more likely that APSC and FF formats will each nestle into their own little niche with FF being aimed at pros and the APSC format for the rest of us. Whether FF will ever become mainstream (eg will hit the $1000 mark) is another issue but you will get a lot of use out of your DA lenses in the meantime. I suppose part of that depends on what happens to the 645, but 35mm happened in the first place not because it was the best size on the planet for film, but rather because someone had the idea of making a still camera that would take sections of movie film. Once we quit buying scraps of unused movie film to use in our 35m camera, the size was only a tradition. With an electronic sensor the physical size of the sensor is irrelevant. As the technology to make the sensors more dense develops it makes sense for the sensors to get smaller not larger. PResently the APS-C larger format provides a quality edge over the P & S cameras, but what future is there for the APS-C format if the P & S evolves to where it can consistently provide quality as good as the APS-C. portrait studios don't use 8x10" view cameras much because smaller formats will do the job. The paparazzi don't need to carry speed Graphics and full frame is an ego trip. Granted the 35mm format has served us well for around 70 years and I have used it for 40 of those years and have a collection of FF lenses ranging from a 15mm SMC-A to a 600MM SMC-A and most of the primes inbetween. But shucks, I"ve got a collection of 8" floppy disks too....

11-17-2007, 11:08 AM	#39
thePiRaTE!! Inactive Account Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Calgary, AB Photos: Gallery Posts: 942	I think we see the value of a larger sensor differently. By having it be 35mm, you get all the resolution available and more image to work with. I'd rather decide myself if I wanted my pics cropped, rather than having it imposed by the sensor. The more real estate I can capture the better! If I could sling a large format camera around my neck and run amok, I would switch in an instant. So perhaps its simply preferrence. I disagree that digital zoom will be a factor for SLRs. On P&S, sure, a big 'x' factor will push units out the door, but I would generalize that SLR users aren't motivated by such trickery. In this era of RAW shooting, many of the 'features' even in the K10 are bypassed (all the internal post editing features) Its an extremely easy thing to do to crop ones photos afterwards, along with all the other standard adjustments. Even if a lens has silly, silly IQ and you have 58MP, your still going to be working with a finite ability to 'see' things far away, based on the glass or we would all just have a wide angle on and crop everything we didn't need.