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07-07-2011, 06:21 AM   #16
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My K200d and the 18-135 was not a great match - the lens can use the in-cam corrections that K-7 and K-5 offer, unless you like post-proc work a lot. Once the K-7 left the 18-135 went soon after. I've had nice results from the kit lens but I don't scrutinize the corners in search of perfection - if you want across-the-frame sharpness you'll need to pay for it. While it doesn't feel as sturdy or have WR, the 16-45 has some magic within for imaging; after several kit-like tests with the k-x that's where I stopped. See my blog (sig.line @ bottom of post) for my informal 'contest'.

07-07-2011, 07:30 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
I think that the image quality coming from the kitlenses 18-55 and 50-200 isn't up to the camera's performance for the K-5. People buy a >1000$ camera so they have to expect that there is a lens to it that does the trick.

So a new lens can be designed, but I see alsoo a already excisting option:
DA 16-45mm/f4 WR as a new kitlens

How do you think about it?
People have been clamoring about this for years. When the K20D was announced, there was speculation that the 16-45 would be the kit lens.

QuoteOriginally posted by Raffwal Quote
I think the whole kit lens idea is to provide the camera with a cheap lens that can be used to get some pictures. But anyone and everyone interested beyond that is expected to buy better ones.
Here's the thing, though: the Pentax 18-55 has fallen behind the competition. There are plenty of consumers and "reviewers" - that is, bloggers - who will gauge the camera based on the kit lens. These days, there are more folks buying DSLRs who aren't interested in "photography" so much as "picture taking". Folks will stay away if they become convinced Pentax has the worst kit lens.

Besides, IMO, a really could kit lens would prove inspiring, and maybe spur sales of additional lenses.

QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
I had a Pentax 16-45mm f/4 ED AL once, and the impression I got was that it is a middle of the road lens, it isn't spectacular but it does passably well for most applications.

If pentax wants to play with the rest of it's competitors on equal footing than pentax is going to have to do something about the 16-50mm f/2.8 SDM - compared to the Nikkor 17-55mm f/2.8G ED VR and the Canon EF 17-55mm f/2.8 IS the Pentax lens is found wanting.
But neither Nikkor nor Canon lenses you mention are typical kit lenses, so Pentax does not need to compete there.
07-07-2011, 07:32 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by JHD Quote
Rather than assigning a lens to a body and naming it a "kit lens", wouldn't it be nice if Pentax offered a rebate on any lens you desire? This way you could choose the lens you want - when you want it.
That would be nice, but some DSLR n00bies would get confused, brick & mortar stores might not like it, and it just wouldn't be as "neat & complete" as a kit.
07-07-2011, 07:36 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
The Nikon kit lens for the D7000 is the 18-105 VR.

The 105 has less optical compromises than the Pentax 135. The original 18-105 VR had a rep for soft at 18mm, but apparently that has been tweaked and it is not a higher quality lens.

Technically the 18-135 from Pentax is their top-end "kit" zoom. There is no way they would bundle the DA* series as those have much larger after-market sales margins than as a kit.
Heck, Nikon even had a standard kit bundle of the D90 + 18-105 VR. I thought that was really neat.

A non-WR 18-135 + K5 for ~ $200 over a body-only K5 might do it. The Nikon lens may be sharper, but Pentax could get the tick-box checked for longest kit zoom.


Last edited by luftfluss; 07-07-2011 at 08:07 AM.
07-07-2011, 08:28 AM   #20
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I don't know. I just don't get the concept of superzooms paired with this level of camera. Even the Nikon 18-105 (which is the cream of the superzoom crop) is slow at the long end and soft in spots. It makes a lot more sense to have a constant zoom of some kind (probably f4) and also the possibility of a DA * zoom instead.
07-07-2011, 08:40 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by luftfluss Quote
People have been clamoring about this for years. When the K20D was announced, there was speculation that the 16-45 would be the kit lens.
Won't happen. This would compete too closely on WA with the 16-50.

The 18-55WR is an excellent, inexpensive lens. by design it is a good backup for a shooter who then up-markets to the DA*'s. That's the whole point.

The all-in-one kit is the 18-135. I make the point that for some time the Nikon 18-105 VR has been the equivalent kit lens for the D80/90/7000 series to great success and with less optical compromises than the Pentax 18-135 (a step too far IMO).
07-07-2011, 09:22 AM   #22
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My kit lenses with my K20D were the DA10-17 and DA18-250. Feh! on everything lesser. (The rest of my original kit were the FA50/1.4 and AF360.) But yeah, there's this unwarranted view that the 18-55 sucks, which it doesn't -- but that view helps sell many 'upgrade' lenses and put many cast-off 18-55's on eBay cheap. Those are quickly snapped-up, have you noticed? Buyers there know they've gotten bargain glass. (That's where I got mine!)

IMHO those whining about the 18-55 are 1) newbs who don't know how to use it, (and who don't understand the differences between P&S's and dSLRs), and 2) those who believe criticism from the (1) group. And the very few who have received bad copies. I'm not about to re-fight the kit.lens wars now, but maybe Ricoh-Pentax can bypass the bogus perception just with some spin. Rename the 18-55. Recast it as a general-purpose zoom, as THE utility lens. Tightening QC a little wouldn't hurt either.
07-07-2011, 05:15 PM   #23
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I think there should have been an option to go for;

prime, DA 35mm f2.4
or zoom, DA 17-70mm

As a kit lens both are relatively inexpensive and have interesting options to offer, or both for a decent price!

07-07-2011, 06:56 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by daniel deus Quote
I think there should have been an option to go for;

prime, DA 35mm f2.4
or zoom, DA 17-70mm

As a kit lens both are relatively inexpensive and have interesting options to offer, or both for a decent price!
The only downside to this option is the lack of weather sealing.
07-08-2011, 01:51 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by daniel deus Quote
I think there should have been an option to go for;

prime, DA 35mm f2.4
or zoom, DA 17-70mm

As a kit lens both are relatively inexpensive and have interesting options to offer, or both for a decent price!
QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
The only downside to this option is the lack of weather sealing.
I think that offering wheatersealing to the kitlens for a camera like K-5 (and it's successor) is a must.

Offering a kitlens is what you do for people who (mostly) enter new to the Pentax brand and have probably no other Pentax gear (of rescent date). So it has to be a descent lens that is up for the task that a camera like K-5 can do.

The current kitlens isn't good enough for that job.

I don't buy the kitlens, since the next camera will be my 6th Pentax body. Unless it is a descent lens that can have a task in my camerabag next to some fine primes.
07-08-2011, 04:36 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by luftfluss Quote
But neither Nikkor nor Canon lenses you mention are typical kit lenses, so Pentax does not need to compete there.
excuse me, but if pentax ever produces a top-of-the-line flagship camera the last thing it's users are going to want is a 18-55mm slow as hell consumer lens on it.
07-08-2011, 07:51 AM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
the provided kitlens is crap
All kit lenses are 'crap' tho aren't they?!

I was under the impression that Pentax's 'kit' 18-55 was better than most other brands... (?)

There are however already more options than just the 18-55 (or twin 18-55/50-200) kits...

One of the 'kit' options for K5 in the UK is with the 18-135wr lens... I think this is the best available one...
Gives user a fairly massive 'wr' range without having to switch lenses past the '55' mark and has reasonable IQ...

One has also to assume that anyone going for a(ny) pentax dslr system plans at some point to invest in better glass in the future... If not... What was the point of buying into the pentax (or any other brand) dslr system???

I shoot mosly with a K-x... K5 looks nice but for the time being I'll spend my pennies on lenses and flash equipment until something even better (K3? K-FF?) comes along...
07-08-2011, 07:53 AM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
excuse me, but if pentax ever produces a top-of-the-line flagship camera the last thing it's users are going to want is a 18-55mm slow as hell consumer lens on it.
Correct... They'll want to choose their own glass for it so will most likely buy 'body-only' and supply or buy lenses separately
07-08-2011, 08:33 AM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
excuse me, but if pentax ever produces a top-of-the-line flagship camera the last thing it's users are going to want is a 18-55mm slow as hell consumer lens on it.
I agree

personally, I think a K5 (or any future flagship) + DA 40 kit, would attract a lot of people to the brand

isn't this sexy?

07-08-2011, 08:37 AM   #30
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OR give us 3 separate Limited kits
a DA 15, DA 40 and a DA 70.

and market it with something like: LIMITED, only by your imagination.
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