New kit lens for top of the line camera!

**luftfluss** · 07-09-2011, 07:50 AM

Originally posted by RonHendriks1966

Well a kitlens is for the person who is new to the brand and not all off them are well known with dslr's in real life. Just coming from a P&S having some sparecash and buying into a system. For those people a good kitlens should be provided when they slap down $1000 on a camera body to have a good start.

DA 20-100mm/f3.2-5.0 WR
DA 25-100mm/f4.0 WR
DA 17-70mm/f4 WR
Combo DA 16-45mm/f4 WR and DA 45-125mm/f4 WR
New reviseted DA 18-55mm/f2.8-4.0 WR
Just a voucher for lenspurchase with body-only.
Leave current kitlenses, they are fine.

Or anything else?

My personal startkit with Pentax and dslr was K20D with grip and DA*16-50mm and DA*50-135mm. So I do see that people will start with a highend lens, only that is no longer a real kitlens.

Pricing?

RonHendriks1966 · 07-09-2011, 09:02 AM

Originally posted by RonHendriks1966

Well a kitlens is for the person who is new to the brand and not all off them are well known with dslr's in real life. Just coming from a P&S having some sparecash and buying into a system. For those people a good kitlens should be provided when they slap down $1000 on a camera body to have a good start.

DA 20-100mm/f3.2-5.0 WR 400euro
DA 25-100mm/f4.0 WR 400 euro
DA 17-70mm/f4 WR 400 euro
Combo DA 16-45mm/f4 WR and DA 45-125mm/f4 WR 500euro
New reviseted DA 18-55mm/f2.8-4.0 WR 150 euro
Just a voucher for lenspurchase with body-only.
Leave current kitlenses, they are fine.

Or anything else?

My personal startkit with Pentax and dslr was K20D with grip and DA*16-50mm and DA*50-135mm. So I do see that people will start with a highend lens, only that is no longer a real kitlens.

Originally posted by luftfluss

Pricing?

Always a difficult question. The current kitlenses in WR are costing 318 euro bought separate and 270 euro extra for the double kit extra to a body only. You only pay 70 euro extra for a 18-55mm lenskitpack to a body only.

So making the budget bigger gives a lot off room for improved quality in lensdesign. Ofcourse, metal mount and a lenshood and pouch, since this is not the plastic fantastic world.

**luftfluss** · 07-09-2011, 09:20 AM

Originally posted by RonHendriks1966

Always a difficult question. The current kitlenses in WR are costing 318 euro bought separate and 270 euro extra for the double kit extra to a body only. You only pay 70 euro extra for a 18-55mm lenskitpack to a body only.

So making the budget bigger gives a lot off room for improved quality in lensdesign. Ofcourse, metal mount and a lenshood and pouch, since this is not the plastic fantastic world.

I think part of the issue regarding the K-5 and high-quality kit lenses is that even though the K-5 is Pentax's flagship DSLR, it's not a real flagship in the sense that it could compete with, say, a Nikon D3x. At $1300 USD it's affordable enough for many people who know absolutely nothing about photography, but simply want a "top of the line" kind of camera. But once the price is bumped close to $2000, it will lose the demographic at which kit lenses are generally aimed. Hence my idea about offering to separate kit lens packages, one with DA 35 f/2.4 & the other with the 18-135WR.

I think (again) that people who do know Pentax, in a modern sense, look at Pentax as the brand with affordable weather-sealing and/or the brand with the neat primes. IMO that should be exploited.

Given all that, based on your list, I would say the kit lens should be either the DA 17-70mm/f4 WR or DA 20-100mm/f3.2-5.0 WR. The DA 25-100mm/f4.0 WR doesn't strike me as being wide enough, the Combo DA 16-45mm/f4 WR and DA 45-125mm/f4 WR seems awkward, and I don't think Pentax could do DA 18-55mm/f2.8-4.0 WR for 150.

**Aristophanes** · 07-09-2011, 12:45 PM

Originally posted by RonHendriks1966

Combo DA 16-45mm/f4 WR and DA 45-125mm/f4 WR
New reviseted DA 18-55mm/f

Do the math. These are effectively the DA*16-50 and 50-135 in size, or so close it makes no practical difference.

Splitting hairs.

RonHendriks1966 · 07-09-2011, 12:53 PM

Originally posted by Aristophanes

Do the math. These are effectively the DA*16-50 and 50-135 in size, or so close it makes no practical difference.

Splitting hairs.

Really? I don't think so. The difference is in the max apperture going from f2.8 to f4 wich would probably half the size and weight of these lenses.

Didn't knew it was made before:
K 45-125/4 running on a smaller frontglass (I think 49mm is even possible). Quality is a second diference between them.

Blue · 07-09-2011, 01:16 PM

Originally posted by RonHendriks1966

. . .

DA 20-100mm/f3.2-5.0 WR
DA 25-100mm/f4.0 WR

. . .

R&D on these would have to be from scratch optically and mechanically meaning you would be looking at some time to even see these.

RonHendriks1966 · 07-09-2011, 01:31 PM

Originally posted by Blue

R&D on these would have to be from scratch optically and mechanically meaning you would be looking at some time to even see these.

well and if they where kitlenses for the next 5 years, that wouldn't be a problem.

GeneV · 07-09-2011, 02:32 PM

The only "kit" lenses I have purchased have been lenses that were basically free with the body. I'm with the others in believing that many purchasers of a $1,200 K5 are not likely to need a "kit." Unless they get production of any replacement up to the point of the 18-55, they can't really make a lens "kit" cheap. My thought would be instead to offer a discount on a lens purchased with the body.

I do like the idea of making the 17-70 WR, though. This is the unsung hero of the "kit-ish" zooms, and it is my go-to all-purpose zoom. I'd update it if some features were added. Its size is at the limit of my comfort for a walk-around lens, though. That aspect of the 18-55 is often overlooked. It is really tiny for what it does.

07-09-2011, 07:50 AM	#46
luftfluss Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: NJ Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,627	Originally posted by RonHendriks1966 Well a kitlens is for the person who is new to the brand and not all off them are well known with dslr's in real life. Just coming from a P&S having some sparecash and buying into a system. For those people a good kitlens should be provided when they slap down $1000 on a camera body to have a good start. DA 20-100mm/f3.2-5.0 WR DA 25-100mm/f4.0 WR DA 17-70mm/f4 WR Combo DA 16-45mm/f4 WR and DA 45-125mm/f4 WR New reviseted DA 18-55mm/f2.8-4.0 WR Just a voucher for lenspurchase with body-only. Leave current kitlenses, they are fine. Or anything else? My personal startkit with Pentax and dslr was K20D with grip and DA16-50mm and DA50-135mm. So I do see that people will start with a highend lens, only that is no longer a real kitlens. Pricing?

07-09-2011, 09:02 AM	#47
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675 Original Poster	Originally posted by RonHendriks1966 Well a kitlens is for the person who is new to the brand and not all off them are well known with dslr's in real life. Just coming from a P&S having some sparecash and buying into a system. For those people a good kitlens should be provided when they slap down $1000 on a camera body to have a good start. DA 20-100mm/f3.2-5.0 WR 400euro DA 25-100mm/f4.0 WR 400 euro DA 17-70mm/f4 WR 400 euro Combo DA 16-45mm/f4 WR and DA 45-125mm/f4 WR 500euro New reviseted DA 18-55mm/f2.8-4.0 WR 150 euro Just a voucher for lenspurchase with body-only. Leave current kitlenses, they are fine. Or anything else? My personal startkit with Pentax and dslr was K20D with grip and DA16-50mm and DA50-135mm. So I do see that people will start with a highend lens, only that is no longer a real kitlens. Originally posted by luftfluss Pricing? Always a difficult question. The current kitlenses in WR are costing 318 euro bought separate and 270 euro extra for the double kit extra to a body only. You only pay 70 euro extra for a 18-55mm lenskitpack to a body only. So making the budget bigger gives a lot off room for improved quality in lensdesign. Ofcourse, metal mount and a lenshood and pouch, since this is not the plastic fantastic world.

07-09-2011, 09:20 AM	#48
luftfluss Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: NJ Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,627	Originally posted by RonHendriks1966 Always a difficult question. The current kitlenses in WR are costing 318 euro bought separate and 270 euro extra for the double kit extra to a body only. You only pay 70 euro extra for a 18-55mm lenskitpack to a body only. So making the budget bigger gives a lot off room for improved quality in lensdesign. Ofcourse, metal mount and a lenshood and pouch, since this is not the plastic fantastic world. I think part of the issue regarding the K-5 and high-quality kit lenses is that even though the K-5 is Pentax's flagship DSLR, it's not a real flagship in the sense that it could compete with, say, a Nikon D3x. At $1300 USD it's affordable enough for many people who know absolutely nothing about photography, but simply want a "top of the line" kind of camera. But once the price is bumped close to $2000, it will lose the demographic at which kit lenses are generally aimed. Hence my idea about offering to separate kit lens packages, one with DA 35 f/2.4 & the other with the 18-135WR. I think (again) that people who do know Pentax, in a modern sense, look at Pentax as the brand with affordable weather-sealing and/or the brand with the neat primes. IMO that should be exploited. Given all that, based on your list, I would say the kit lens should be either the DA 17-70mm/f4 WR or DA 20-100mm/f3.2-5.0 WR. The DA 25-100mm/f4.0 WR doesn't strike me as being wide enough, the Combo DA 16-45mm/f4 WR and DA 45-125mm/f4 WR seems awkward, and I don't think Pentax could do DA 18-55mm/f2.8-4.0 WR for 150. Last edited by luftfluss; 07-09-2011 at 09:26 AM.

07-09-2011, 01:16 PM	#51
Blue Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Florida Hill Country Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,377	Originally posted by RonHendriks1966 . . . DA 20-100mm/f3.2-5.0 WR DA 25-100mm/f4.0 WR . . . R&D on these would have to be from scratch optically and mechanically meaning you would be looking at some time to even see these.

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07-09-2011, 12:45 PM	#49
Aristophanes Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Rankin Inlet, Nunavut Photos: Albums Posts: 3,948	Originally posted by RonHendriks1966 Combo DA 16-45mm/f4 WR and DA 45-125mm/f4 WR New reviseted DA 18-55mm/f Do the math. These are effectively the DA*16-50 and 50-135 in size, or so close it makes no practical difference. Splitting hairs.

07-09-2011, 12:53 PM	#50
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675 Original Poster	Originally posted by Aristophanes Do the math. These are effectively the DA*16-50 and 50-135 in size, or so close it makes no practical difference. Splitting hairs. Really? I don't think so. The difference is in the max apperture going from f2.8 to f4 wich would probably half the size and weight of these lenses. Didn't knew it was made before: K 45-125/4 running on a smaller frontglass (I think 49mm is even possible). Quality is a second diference between them.

07-09-2011, 01:31 PM	#52
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675 Original Poster	Originally posted by Blue R&D on these would have to be from scratch optically and mechanically meaning you would be looking at some time to even see these. well and if they where kitlenses for the next 5 years, that wouldn't be a problem.

07-09-2011, 02:32 PM	#53
GeneV Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Albuquerque NM Photos: Albums Posts: 9,830	The only "kit" lenses I have purchased have been lenses that were basically free with the body. I'm with the others in believing that many purchasers of a $1,200 K5 are not likely to need a "kit." Unless they get production of any replacement up to the point of the 18-55, they can't really make a lens "kit" cheap. My thought would be instead to offer a discount on a lens purchased with the body. I do like the idea of making the 17-70 WR, though. This is the unsung hero of the "kit-ish" zooms, and it is my go-to all-purpose zoom. I'd update it if some features were added. Its size is at the limit of my comfort for a walk-around lens, though. That aspect of the 18-55 is often overlooked. It is really tiny for what it does.