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07-12-2011, 05:51 PM   #31
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The Pentax/Tokina lenses in Nikon mount have to sell at a discount compared to Nikkors because their "chip" is reverse engineered, rather than genuine Nikon. That is perceived as reduced value by customers, due to the risk that the chip won't work with their next (new) camera.

The dealer markups at places like B&H and Adorama are modest, maybe $20 to $50 a lens. Nothing big. It's the importers and distributors.

Also, remember that Euro prices include something like 18% VAT, where US prices are listed before any sales taxes. Of course, Internet sales in the US are generally free of sales taxes.

07-12-2011, 06:13 PM   #32
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I think it's easy to work out which lenses are over priced, just look at the resale value of them compared to their new prices.

By that definition then the FA31 is a bargain at it barely seems discounted in the market place compared to new, and lenses like the DA16-50 are overpriced because people have to discount them heavily to off load them it seems.
07-12-2011, 06:14 PM   #33
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I've quite often found that Sigma and Tamron lenses in the UK are quite often found to be 10-20 more in Pentax-mount than the same lens CaNikon-mount...

Hopefully Ricoh will sell more cameras than Hoya and the prices of both Pentax and third-party lenses will drop in line with CaNikon offerings...
07-12-2011, 06:21 PM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by twitch Quote
I think it's easy to work out which lenses are over priced, just look at the resale value of them compared to their new prices.

By that definition then the FA31 is a bargain at it barely seems discounted in the market place compared to new, and lenses like the DA16-50 are overpriced because people have to discount them heavily to off load them it seems.
The only problem I see with that argument is that there are other factors to consider.

In the case of a new 16-50 vs a used 16-50, there is a higher value associated with the warranty that comes with a new 16-50 than there is for the warranty that comes with a new 31. In other words, the value of the warranty that is included with the new 16-50 is worth more to people than the warranty that comes with the new 31 (primarily because you are significantly more likely to use it with the 16-50 than the 31). Hence, on the used market, where there is no warranty, the 31 commands a price closer to new while the 16-50 has a larger spread due to the missing value of the warranty that is lacks.

07-12-2011, 06:33 PM   #35
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Good point. Perhaps the DA21 is a better exmaple.
07-12-2011, 06:43 PM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by twitch Quote
Good point. Perhaps the DA21 is a better exmaple.
Well, in the case of the 21 vs 31, I'd probably cite the fact that there is an inflated market for the MIJ copies of the 31 (which on average sell for $100-200 more than the AIV copies, at least here in the US). Now, I'm taking a position on whether or not that is justified (or right), but that is the reality of the used market right now. So the more fair comparison is the price of a new (AIV) 31 vs the price of a used (AIV) 31 as compared to the price difference between the new and used 21. In this case, the markdown for a used copy is about the same (~20% off in each instance).

But I do agree with and understand your original point. And I certainly feel that (for the most part), the prices of lenses on the used market are neither over nor under-priced. They are the prices that people are willing to pay for the lens, hence they are exactly "right". They might be more than a similar Nikon or Canon lens, but we're not talking about apples and apples in most cases. A lens that is truly over-priced, whether new or used, simply won't sell well and the price is usually adjusted accordingly.
07-12-2011, 06:44 PM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by creampuff Quote
Singapore's prices are on par and occasionally cheaper than the US.
Do you know a Singapore online store that would ship a K-5 to New Zealand? Would be great to hear about such an opportunity.


QuoteOriginally posted by John Shriver Quote
The Pentax/Tokina lenses in Nikon mount have to sell at a discount compared to Nikkors because their "chip" is reverse engineered, rather than genuine Nikon. That is perceived as reduced value by customers, due to the risk that the chip won't work with their next (new) camera.
I've read that you can take a lens to Sigma and have it re-chiped in case a new camera refuses to work with it.

My understanding is that a third party manufacturer must compensate the "original / genuine equipment" factor and must hence offer superior perfomance/price ratios in order to stand a chance with customers. Sometimes manufacturers favour their own equipment -- e.g., only Pentax lenses enable "lens corrections" on Pentax cameras / you can only send in a Pentax lens for calibration with your Pentax body -- but even without such preferential treatment, many customers / sales people will prefer to buy / sell "genuine" equipment.

If there were no advantage to buying third-party equipment, why not get the original manufacture equipment?

Last edited by Class A; 07-13-2011 at 12:10 AM.
07-13-2011, 03:29 AM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
Do you know a Singapore online store that would ship a K-5 to New Zealand? Would be great to hear about such an opportunity.



I've read that you can take a lens to Sigma and have it re-chiped in case a new camera refuses to work with it.

My understanding is that a third party manufacturer must compensate the "original / genuine equipment" factor and must hence offer superior perfomance/price ratios in order to stand a chance with customers. Sometimes manufacturers favour their own equipment -- e.g., only Pentax lenses enable "lens corrections" on Pentax cameras / you can only send in a Pentax lens for calibration with your Pentax body -- but even without such preferential treatment, many customers / sales people will prefer to buy / sell "genuine" equipment.

If there were no advantage to buying third-party equipment, why not get the original manufacture equipment?
You are correct that Sigma and (for other mounts) Tokina support their lenses nicely. However, if you get a new camera and suddenly a couple of your lenses are focusing off enough that you can't adjust for it with normal camera adjustments, if your lenses are third party you are in quandry. If they are Pentax lenses, you can send your camera and lenses off and have the lot adjusted.

I personally have chosen only to buy Pentax lenses to this point, but Sigma does make some awfully nice glass. I do worry about the support after the fact.

07-13-2011, 05:09 AM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
You are correct that Sigma and (for other mounts) Tokina support their lenses nicely. However, if you get a new camera and suddenly a couple of your lenses are focusing off enough that you can't adjust for it with normal camera adjustments, if your lenses are third party you are in quandry. If they are Pentax lenses, you can send your camera and lenses off and have the lot adjusted.

I personally have chosen only to buy Pentax lenses to this point, but Sigma does make some awfully nice glass. I do worry about the support after the fact.
In Canada Sigma provides for a 10 year warranty so you are good for that length of time, after that though....
07-13-2011, 06:53 AM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
In Canada Sigma provides for a 10 year warranty so you are good for that length of time, after that though....
But do you send in the camera, or the lenses, or both and who do you send them to?
07-13-2011, 08:14 AM - 1 Like   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
Do you know a Singapore online store that would ship a K-5 to New Zealand? Would be great to hear about such an opportunity.
not sure if they ship to NZ but this is one of the online stores that Singaporean pentax users buy from

Gizmobuy.com - The Online Electronics Mall
07-13-2011, 02:43 PM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by deadwolfbones Quote
Nevertheless, Tokina sells them substantially cheaper.

I know, I know... WR, "special coatings," etc...
Sure, there's all that, but then there is also basic economics. Pentax has to recoup the cost of designing those lenses, and selling to a much smaller market, they need larger margins to make the same profit. Tokina has no coss to recover and they sell to a much larger market, allowing them to be profitable at a smaller markup.
07-13-2011, 07:50 PM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by Yamakasi Quote
not sure if they ship to NZ but this is one of the online stores that Singaporean pentax users buy from
Thanks!
I've sent them an enquiry.

P.S.: You've earned your first "Like".
07-14-2011, 12:29 AM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
If they are Pentax lenses, you can send your camera and lenses off and have the lot adjusted.
You can do the same with Sigma lenses, they adjust them to your cam for free. If you do the same with Pentax, you usually get everything back unaltered with a note "within tolerances"...
07-14-2011, 08:34 AM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
Thanks!
I've sent them an enquiry.

P.S.: You've earned your first "Like".
thank you
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