The cheapest wide angle lens?

woof · 07-26-2011, 08:54 AM

Originally posted by interested_observer

I have been lucky and carefully acquiring a lens setup aimed at landscapes. 10-17 FE, 12-24, 16-45, Contax 28, 31 Ltd, A 50, and another Contax 85 - all for landscapes, and I stitch with all of them - even the 55-300.

Rico has laid out the problem very well. At times there is a foreground that makes the shot - so go wide. Other times the foreground is garbage, but a great distant landscape shot, so you need to reach across the foreground - 50 and 85, and probably stitch a panorama together.

I will say, that the Contax 28 is a wonderful MANUAL equivalent to the 31 limited at 1/3 the price new, or 1/2 the price used.

So, I would suggest to pick you way through this list looking for lens suggestions that are high in quality, with reasonable costs, that could possibly be stitched...

Nice summary and agreed on all points... Well said. Let me add some amplifications here. The part about wide for good foreground, less so where foreground is not so good, and be prepared to stitch...

One of the most pure players that meets all of the criteria admirably really is the 16-45mm. Others have noted that it stitches well. This is true.

I own Sigma 8-16mm, DA 15mm, DA 16-45mm, F28mm, 28-75mm, FA50mm f/1.7, etc.

Point is, I have a lot of overlap right around 16mm.

There is a reason for that. I keep thinking I'll get rid of the 16-45mm, but when I do not KNOW what I am going to come across, it is ALWAYS in the bag. That is often. So it meets these three criteria...

Criteria 4. It is inexpensive. Far out of proportion to it's usefulness and quality. It has netted me several ribbons in juried shows, and one Monthly here. Since we are talking about stitching I'll trot this out again. DA 16-45 @ 16mm

Also, I agree with the assertion that 28mm is a very nice FL. I do a lot of Architecture. While you would imagine wide is essential, my best architecture shots are at 28mm. What they are is detail shots. Details of the architecture with a enough context to show or hint at the larger picture. This can be exceedingly effective in landscape as well. I have been meaning to bear down on just that.

Hope this helps.

Blue · 07-26-2011, 09:55 AM

Woof, is that 3 or 4 frames stitched? Also, I like the F 28/2.8 a lot on film and digital.

rhodopsin · 07-26-2011, 10:19 AM

"The cheapest wide angle lens?" -- pinhole?

woof · 07-26-2011, 12:18 PM

Originally posted by Blue

Woof, is that 3 or 4 frames stitched? Also, I like the F 28/2.8 a lot on film and digital.

Glad you asked.

It is five frames. I shot it in Portrait mode. There is some cropping occasioned by a not so level tripod, but five nonetheless.

I forgot to say that. I highly recommend this as it makes wide even wider.

The only thing about the F28mm is that the bokeh can be a bit busy sometimes... but for architecture and landscapes this rarely comes into the equation for me... Just an outstanding lens in most respects.

vrrattko · 07-26-2011, 03:16 PM

Originally posted by interested_observer

That said, there are Zeiss Jennas that are M42 (needs an adapter), that are pretty reasonable in cost and high in quality.

Contax Zeiss are excelent lenses, IMHO easily on par with the Limiteds or maybe even exceeding them in IQ. However I'd like to point out that CZJ (Carl Zeiss Jena) are generally of lesser quality than Zeiss produced in West Germany.

twitch · 07-26-2011, 03:34 PM

Not many people regret buying the DA15. I have quite a few nice lenses incl a couple of FA limiteds, but none of them I like more than my DA15 (although I may love my FA31 equally as much

)

Buy cheap, buy twice, so my 2c is to scrape up the coin to get the DA15. Then between that and your 35mm you've got a great quality super compact kit, you may never use your 18-55 again

RioRico · 07-26-2011, 03:52 PM

Originally posted by rhodopsin

"The cheapest wide angle lens?" -- pinhole?

A pinhole isn't WA on an SLR because the mirrorbox keeps it too far away. The focal length of a pinhole is its distance from the frame. My pinhole-in-a-PK-body-cap is ~45mm f/180. A thin 135/FF RF could take an inset pinhole but still wouldn't reach UWA territory. This isn't like the traditional oatmeal-carton pinhole using 8x10in paper, which on a 5.5in-thick carton is FOV-equivalent to a 12mm lens on APS-C.

Yeah, a pinhole is the cheapest WA but only if you eat oatmeal.

kenafein · 07-26-2011, 04:59 PM

Originally posted by twitch

Not many people regret buying the DA15. I have quite a few nice lenses incl a couple of FA limiteds, but none of them I like more than my DA15 (although I may love my FA31 equally as much

)

Buy cheap, buy twice, so my 2c is to scrape up the coin to get the DA15. Then between that and your 35mm you've got a great quality super compact kit, you may never use your 18-55 again

My personal fear is buying expensive and buying twice. I want the 12-24 and the 15 ltd.

steve1307 · 07-26-2011, 07:09 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by twitch

Not many people regret buying the DA15. I have quite a few nice lenses incl a couple of FA limiteds, but none of them I like more than my DA15 (although I may love my FA31 equally as much

)

Buy cheap, buy twice, so my 2c is to scrape up the coin to get the DA15. Then between that and your 35mm you've got a great quality super compact kit, you may never use your 18-55 again

Yep, totally agree. First make sure that what you already have doesnt meet your needs then....
If you want the DA15 then just save up the extra couple of hundred bucks to get it. If you have a job, how hard can that be?
If you are a student then participate in medical experinents at uni. Dont sell one of your kidneys though, its always good to keep a spare one of those if can.

I have a job and I saved 600 bucks by NOT buying one of those stupid ipad thingys. see ... Easy. A DA15 will last 30years+ , an Ipad2 will be obselete within a year when the Ipad3 comes out.

twitch · 07-26-2011, 08:37 PM

Originally posted by kenafein

My personal fear is buying expensive and buying twice. I want the 12-24 and the 15 ltd.

There's no cure to LBA, but buying a cheap lens instead of the one you actually want will make things worse not better in my (rather costly) experience

woof · 07-27-2011, 07:01 AM

Originally posted by twitch

Not many people regret buying the DA15...

Buy cheap, buy twice, so my 2c is to scrape up the coin to get the DA15. Then between that and your 35mm you've got a great quality super compact kit, you may never use your 18-55 again

"Buy cheap, buy twice"... since I advocated the 16-45mm based on it meeting price and other criteria, I should respond....

Let me be clear. The 16-45mm WAS the gateway "drug" that led to purchasing the DA15mm.

twitch has a point...

woof!

kenafein · 07-27-2011, 08:02 AM

Originally posted by twitch

There's no cure to LBA, but buying a cheap lens instead of the one you actually want will make things worse not better in my (rather costly) experience

If you had to choose between your 12-24 or your 15ltd, which would you keep? And why?

RioRico · 07-27-2011, 08:35 AM

Originally posted by kenafein

If you had to choose between your 12-24 or your 15ltd, which would you keep? And why?

And why should you be forced to choose between them?

telly0050 · 07-27-2011, 01:45 PM

looks like this already turned into a wide angle discussion thread.
after reading so much, i gave up the idea for a cheap wide angle, and is going to save money for the 15 lmt

paperbag846 · 07-27-2011, 01:52 PM

Originally posted by telly0050

after reading so much, i gave up the idea for a cheap wide angle, and is going to save money for the 15 lmt

15 is good for those who like to travel light and don't shoot a tonne of wide angles.

12-24 is vastly superior for those who like to shoot a lot of wide angles. Same IQ, much more versatile.

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07-26-2011, 08:54 AM	#31
woof Inactive Account Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: In the present Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,870	Originally posted by interested_observer I have been lucky and carefully acquiring a lens setup aimed at landscapes. 10-17 FE, 12-24, 16-45, Contax 28, 31 Ltd, A 50, and another Contax 85 - all for landscapes, and I stitch with all of them - even the 55-300. Rico has laid out the problem very well. At times there is a foreground that makes the shot - so go wide. Other times the foreground is garbage, but a great distant landscape shot, so you need to reach across the foreground - 50 and 85, and probably stitch a panorama together. I will say, that the Contax 28 is a wonderful MANUAL equivalent to the 31 limited at 1/3 the price new, or 1/2 the price used. So, I would suggest to pick you way through this list looking for lens suggestions that are high in quality, with reasonable costs, that could possibly be stitched... Nice summary and agreed on all points... Well said. Let me add some amplifications here. The part about wide for good foreground, less so where foreground is not so good, and be prepared to stitch... One of the most pure players that meets all of the criteria admirably really is the 16-45mm. Others have noted that it stitches well. This is true. I own Sigma 8-16mm, DA 15mm, DA 16-45mm, F28mm, 28-75mm, FA50mm f/1.7, etc. Point is, I have a lot of overlap right around 16mm. There is a reason for that. I keep thinking I'll get rid of the 16-45mm, but when I do not KNOW what I am going to come across, it is ALWAYS in the bag. That is often. So it meets these three criteria... Criteria 4. It is inexpensive. Far out of proportion to it's usefulness and quality. It has netted me several ribbons in juried shows, and one Monthly here. Since we are talking about stitching I'll trot this out again. DA 16-45 @ 16mm Also, I agree with the assertion that 28mm is a very nice FL. I do a lot of Architecture. While you would imagine wide is essential, my best architecture shots are at 28mm. What they are is detail shots. Details of the architecture with a enough context to show or hint at the larger picture. This can be exceedingly effective in landscape as well. I have been meaning to bear down on just that. Hope this helps.

07-26-2011, 09:55 AM	#32
Blue Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Florida Hill Country Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,377	Woof, is that 3 or 4 frames stitched? Also, I like the F 28/2.8 a lot on film and digital.

07-26-2011, 10:19 AM	#33
rhodopsin Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Deep Forest Posts: 643	"The cheapest wide angle lens?" -- pinhole?

07-26-2011, 12:18 PM	#34
woof Inactive Account Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: In the present Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,870	Originally posted by Blue Woof, is that 3 or 4 frames stitched? Also, I like the F 28/2.8 a lot on film and digital. Glad you asked. It is five frames. I shot it in Portrait mode. There is some cropping occasioned by a not so level tripod, but five nonetheless. I forgot to say that. I highly recommend this as it makes wide even wider. The only thing about the F28mm is that the bokeh can be a bit busy sometimes... but for architecture and landscapes this rarely comes into the equation for me... Just an outstanding lens in most respects.

07-26-2011, 03:16 PM	#35
vrrattko Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Photos: Albums Posts: 753	Originally posted by interested_observer That said, there are Zeiss Jennas that are M42 (needs an adapter), that are pretty reasonable in cost and high in quality. Contax Zeiss are excelent lenses, IMHO easily on par with the Limiteds or maybe even exceeding them in IQ. However I'd like to point out that CZJ (Carl Zeiss Jena) are generally of lesser quality than Zeiss produced in West Germany.

07-26-2011, 03:34 PM	#36
twitch Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 4,571	Not many people regret buying the DA15. I have quite a few nice lenses incl a couple of FA limiteds, but none of them I like more than my DA15 (although I may love my FA31 equally as much ) Buy cheap, buy twice, so my 2c is to scrape up the coin to get the DA15. Then between that and your 35mm you've got a great quality super compact kit, you may never use your 18-55 again

07-26-2011, 03:52 PM	#37
RioRico Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Limbo, California Posts: 11,263	Originally posted by rhodopsin "The cheapest wide angle lens?" -- pinhole? A pinhole isn't WA on an SLR because the mirrorbox keeps it too far away. The focal length of a pinhole is its distance from the frame. My pinhole-in-a-PK-body-cap is ~45mm f/180. A thin 135/FF RF could take an inset pinhole but still wouldn't reach UWA territory. This isn't like the traditional oatmeal-carton pinhole using 8x10in paper, which on a 5.5in-thick carton is FOV-equivalent to a 12mm lens on APS-C. Yeah, a pinhole is the cheapest WA but only if you eat oatmeal.

07-26-2011, 04:59 PM	#38
kenafein Veteran Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: Southern California Photos: Albums Posts: 4,082	Originally posted by twitch Not many people regret buying the DA15. I have quite a few nice lenses incl a couple of FA limiteds, but none of them I like more than my DA15 (although I may love my FA31 equally as much ) Buy cheap, buy twice, so my 2c is to scrape up the coin to get the DA15. Then between that and your 35mm you've got a great quality super compact kit, you may never use your 18-55 again My personal fear is buying expensive and buying twice. I want the 12-24 and the 15 ltd.

07-26-2011, 07:09 PM - 1 Like	#39
steve1307 Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Sydney Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,130	Originally posted by twitch Not many people regret buying the DA15. I have quite a few nice lenses incl a couple of FA limiteds, but none of them I like more than my DA15 (although I may love my FA31 equally as much ) Buy cheap, buy twice, so my 2c is to scrape up the coin to get the DA15. Then between that and your 35mm you've got a great quality super compact kit, you may never use your 18-55 again Yep, totally agree. First make sure that what you already have doesnt meet your needs then.... If you want the DA15 then just save up the extra couple of hundred bucks to get it. If you have a job, how hard can that be? If you are a student then participate in medical experinents at uni. Dont sell one of your kidneys though, its always good to keep a spare one of those if can. I have a job and I saved 600 bucks by NOT buying one of those stupid ipad thingys. see ... Easy. A DA15 will last 30years+ , an Ipad2 will be obselete within a year when the Ipad3 comes out.

07-26-2011, 08:37 PM	#40
twitch Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 4,571	Originally posted by kenafein My personal fear is buying expensive and buying twice. I want the 12-24 and the 15 ltd. There's no cure to LBA, but buying a cheap lens instead of the one you actually want will make things worse not better in my (rather costly) experience

07-27-2011, 07:01 AM	#41
woof Inactive Account Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: In the present Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,870	Originally posted by twitch Not many people regret buying the DA15... Buy cheap, buy twice, so my 2c is to scrape up the coin to get the DA15. Then between that and your 35mm you've got a great quality super compact kit, you may never use your 18-55 again "Buy cheap, buy twice"... since I advocated the 16-45mm based on it meeting price and other criteria, I should respond.... Let me be clear. The 16-45mm WAS the gateway "drug" that led to purchasing the DA15mm. twitch has a point... woof!

07-27-2011, 08:02 AM	#42
kenafein Veteran Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: Southern California Photos: Albums Posts: 4,082	Originally posted by twitch There's no cure to LBA, but buying a cheap lens instead of the one you actually want will make things worse not better in my (rather costly) experience If you had to choose between your 12-24 or your 15ltd, which would you keep? And why?

07-27-2011, 08:35 AM	#43
RioRico Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Limbo, California Posts: 11,263	Originally posted by kenafein If you had to choose between your 12-24 or your 15ltd, which would you keep? And why? And why should you be forced to choose between them?

07-27-2011, 01:45 PM	#44
telly0050 Senior Member Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 233 Original Poster	looks like this already turned into a wide angle discussion thread. after reading so much, i gave up the idea for a cheap wide angle, and is going to save money for the 15 lmt

07-27-2011, 01:52 PM	#45
paperbag846 Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,395	Originally posted by telly0050 after reading so much, i gave up the idea for a cheap wide angle, and is going to save money for the 15 lmt 15 is good for those who like to travel light and don't shoot a tonne of wide angles. 12-24 is vastly superior for those who like to shoot a lot of wide angles. Same IQ, much more versatile.