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11-23-2007, 01:13 AM   #1
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Looking for suggestions!

Hi, I'm looking for advices.
Recently I found out, that shooting indoors with flash is impossible if you don't have a wide angle lens. So I started to sniff around for some wide zoom, 16-45, sigma 18-50/2.8 etc. But the problem is that these lenses are too expensive for me. But looking from a bright side - I have Pentax-F 50mm 1.7 which I could sell (I have M1.4, which I love more) and add money to buy zoom; I guess no one would like to trade my 50mm and money for wide zoom .
How much could I get for my 50mm (paypaled and shipped) and how much $ should I add to get 16-45 or equal lens.

Thanks!

11-23-2007, 07:18 AM   #2
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I just sold my 50mm f1.7 for $200 shipped, and consequently when I was selling my 16-45mm f/4 I was going to sell it for $350 shipped.
11-23-2007, 08:31 PM   #3
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??? Not clear why you need a 'fast' lens to shoot indoors if you intend to use a flash? Me, I usually only shoot available light, so I need f/2.8 or faster lenses (which means I never use my 12-24 f/4 inside). But if you're going to use flash, can't you consider more economical, even non-fixed focal length lenses, such as one that goes from f4 - f5.6 through the zoom range? Plus, you need higher f/# stops to get more DOF if your subject will be close. So a lens like that will cost a lot less then a f/2.8 lens. Only saying this with economy in mind, and so you can keep that 50/1.7 lens!
11-24-2007, 02:07 AM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by skaktuss Quote
Hi, I'm looking for advices.
Recently I found out, that shooting indoors with flash is impossible if you don't have a wide angle lens.
Indoor flash with a 105mm lens:



Why is shooting indoors with flash impossible if you don't have a wide angle lens?

11-24-2007, 07:37 AM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by skaktuss Quote
Hi, I'm looking for advices.
Recently I found out, that shooting indoors with flash is impossible if you don't have a wide angle lens.
WHO are you talking to? That is the most bizare thing I have ever heard. You can use a flash with any lens. Well almost any lens.
11-24-2007, 03:23 PM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by skaktuss Quote
Recently I found out, that shooting indoors with flash is impossible if you don't have a wide angle lens.
Thanks!
Wrong.

And, some wides, such as the 16-45 or 12-24 have such a large lens hood, or protrude so far out, that it causes shadows.
11-24-2007, 04:22 PM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by SpecialK Quote
Wrong.

And, some wides, such as the 16-45 or 12-24 have such a large lens hood, or protrude so far out, that it causes shadows.
Just remove the lens hood..
11-24-2007, 07:41 PM   #8
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Ben, you are such a practicle person.

11-24-2007, 08:24 PM   #9
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If you can give us a little better description of the problem, we might be able to be a little more helpful
11-25-2007, 08:44 AM   #10
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some wides, such as the 16-45 or 12-24 have such a large lens hood, or protrude so far out, that it causes shadows.

In the case of the above mentioned I hav eonly found that top be tru when using the on board flash. With a hotshoe flash this has never been an issue for me.
11-26-2007, 12:17 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by clawhamemr:
If you can give us a little better description of the problem, we might be able to be a little more helpful
I'm sorry, guys, I didn't explain enough. I wanted to say, that photographing peaople indoors without wide lens is very hard. Parties, family shots, etc. Imagine room is full of young men and women and there are two lovely ladies sitting in a sofa, 50mm lens is ok for headshots, but if I'd like to capture both girls sitting in sofa, I have to step back 10 meters...
All this time I was only a portrait shooter and I didn't need a wide angle lens, but by force of circumstances it is time to consider something wider.
QuoteOriginally posted by m8o:
??? Not clear why you need a 'fast' lens to shoot indoors if you intend to use a flash?
Why I need fast lens? I have vivitar 285hv flash with cactus wireless trigger and I use it only with diffuser or bounce card. It is pretty powerfull flash but it is still too weak used with diffuser or bounce card, especially if the room is dark and without white walls and ceiling. The only way to get correct exposure is to use wider apertures or bump up iso. I can use a bounce card and f5.6 only at iso400 in a room with wooden walls and ceiling, but at iso400 noise is pretty noticable. So If I want to use a lower iso, I have to choose F2-F4. But most of the lenses has to be stopped down to achieve acceptable sharpness, so fast zoom at F4 should be ok. DA16-45 is very sharp even wide open. Perhaps the problem is that I'm a little bit sharpness freak and I like to look at 100% crops.
QuoteOriginally posted by Mike Cash:
Indoor flash with a 105mm lens:
Mike, those are realy nice pictures! Did You use fill flash?
QuoteOriginally posted by vievetrick:
WHO are you talking to? That is the most bizare thing I have ever heard. You can use a flash with any lens. Well almost any lens.
Sorry, my English is very poor, it is so hard to explain my thinking and it's even harder for you all to understand me, isn't it.

Thanks for reading!
11-26-2007, 03:35 AM   #12
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No, I didn't use fill flash. I used off-camera flash fired with radio remote triggers. In the first photo, I used a flash slightly less powerful than the 285HV about 10 meters from the stage, ISO400, and shot everything at f4. In the second photo, same flash and triggers, but the flash was about 6~7 meters away and I used f5.6.

To control the noise better: Shoot in RAW, convert to TIFF, run the TIFF through noise reduction software (I use NoiseWare), and then do your further post-processing (levels, curves, contrast, etc) on the TIFF file and save it as JPG.

Just please understand that the issue of the wide-angle of the lens is not related to the use of flash at all. You are correct that a faster lens gives you more options. But with the 285HV inside a normal sized room you should easily be able to get f4 or f5.6. Instead of bouncing the light (you lose a lot of power that way), just experiment with where you set the off-camera flash and light directly. The separation of the flash position and the camera position will eliminate the problem of the harsh, flat, ugly light that comes from on-camera direct flash.
11-26-2007, 06:11 AM   #13
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I understand it... I just need a wide angle lens to get everything in the frame, 50mm is too long for indoor party shots.
Only I don 't get this
QuoteOriginally posted by Mike Cash Quote
The separation of the flash position and the camera position will eliminate the problem of the harsh, flat, ugly light that comes from on-camera direct flash.
Why off camera direct flash light doesn't make pictures look flat and ugly? It is the same harsh light that comes from on camera flash, the only difference is that flash unit is placed somewhere else, there is still the same not-softened light. Do You use just a streight pointed flash without any reflectors or diffusers? ccodiac2600, for exaple uses whale tale diffuser.
11-26-2007, 06:31 AM   #14
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Pentax F50 f1.7 is usually sold between 140-175 USD (or 200$ if you are lucky like Budha Jones). You can find the 16-45 in ebay for 250-275 if you are lucky to win the auction. You might wait until the Tamron 17-50 f2.8 is released (althought this is uncertain). There are also some sigma lenses that I never used but they are fast (20,24,30 f1.8 and so on). You can also consider the Tokina 19-35 f3.5-4.5 it is cheaper than the F50 f1.7 and you can use it with your new K1000 but it is not very fast.

Hope it helps
11-26-2007, 06:55 AM   #15
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Thanks, Gruoso! I was waitng for such an answer. More lens choices would be much appreciated
QuoteOriginally posted by Gruoso:
and you can use it with your new K1000
My new love - fantastic K1000 is married with M50mm 1.4 and it is not easy to part them
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