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08-02-2011, 04:51 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by TOUGEFC Quote
Maybe, but it doesnt need more discipline than a prime.
None of that discipline is needed with a prime, because you have no other option, so yes, more discipline is needed with zooms.

08-02-2011, 04:55 PM   #17
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Ok mate if you say so
08-03-2011, 12:31 AM   #18
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Two bodies + 2 primes, pretty much all I need...
Yes, there is a need for new 24-26mm prime around f2, idealy SDM & WR, so basically DA*. $700 is not an issue for lens of those specs... It would still be 2/3 of price of Nikon 24/1.4G. So I think we'd be getting good compromise, especially if the new design would be based on FA*24 (hinting FF capability). Frankly, I wouldn't mind even DA* remake of FA*24/2.

And than none of discipline is needed with primes?!? You don't shoot primes too often do you....
08-03-2011, 12:38 AM   #19
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A DA* remake of the FA*24 would be a great idea and Pentax wouldnt even have to sink much $$$ into it to get it going, no R&D would be needed as they already have the opitic's, all they would have to do is wrap them in a DA* barrell.

08-03-2011, 06:04 AM   #20
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Primes may require more contemplation, consideration, and creativity, but I'm not sure if discipline is the right word.
08-03-2011, 12:11 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by axl Quote
And than none of discipline is needed with primes?!? You don't shoot primes too often do you....
Whatever discipline is needed with primes is also needed with zooms once you select a focal length to use them at. I use primes mostly, but I also use a few zooms at fixed focal lengths - usually the longest.

You may want to say that with primes you have some technical difficulties when shooting at wider apertures, but that is just a matter of training and technique. Discipline is about self control, not about how you control tools. And the discipline in using zooms is about not giving in to the zooming temptation. There is no such temptation with primes. You may say that primes require discipline at purchase time (you refrain from purchasing a zoom), but that is only needed once - zooms require you to refrain from zooming each time you use them.
08-03-2011, 12:24 PM   #22
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I would be an early adopter of any 24-30mm DA* prime. I would like it for times when I don't feel comfortable using the FA31 due to weather or environmental conditions. $700 would be a fair price for moderate wide/normal DA* F2, assuming it has good optical qualities. I have the 16-50 DA*, which serves as my general purpose WR lens now, but could live without the telescopic zoom and weight.

I would expect:
- WR
- SDM (& full time manual focus)
- Internal focus (no dust vaccuum, please)
08-03-2011, 12:49 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
Primes may require more contemplation, consideration, and creativity, but I'm not sure if discipline is the right word.
A prime imposes discipline at the moment you mount it on the camera, not later when you're out shooting. A prime removes the temptation of varifocusing. (I didn't say "the temptation of zooming" because we'll be foot-zooming, eh?) Resisting that temptation is easier when it's not available. Oh sure, we can always tape-down the zoom to a specific focal length, right? Right...

We could quibble about "free will" here. Instead, I'll cite an entirely different zoom that imposes a different discipline: the heavy, brutally sharp Schneider Betavaron 50-125/4-5.6 enlarger zoom, which I mount on ~32mm of extension. Zooming changes not only the focal length but the focus distance too. I'm at 50mm for infinity, 125mm for 1m shots. Any change requires reframing, a dance with the lens and subject. One of these days I'll fall into sin and get a focusing helicoid for it. Ob topic: Too bad it's not WR.

08-03-2011, 01:35 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by RioRico Quote
Zooming changes not only the focal length but the focus distance too.
Is it a varifocal lens or do you mean that for a given focal length the lens can only focus at one distance?

Btw, the existence of the terms varifocal and parfocal make the use of the term "varifocusing" a bit confusing.

QuoteOriginally posted by RioRico Quote
We could quibble about "free will" here.
Discipline can be meaningful even in the absence of free will - we can just look at it as the ability to follow certain rules.
08-03-2011, 02:42 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Quote
Is it a varifocal lens or do you mean that for a given focal length the lens can only focus at one distance?
Yes to both -- it's a vario-macro whose focus distance changes with focal length. See the Schneider Betavaron page. The link is for an older model -- I have the 3,5...11/0.08 version. Those numbers refer to enlargement ratio / physical aperture size, I think. (Documentation is sparse and unclear -- gargle for more.) Very soon now, I'll have a focusing helicoid to mount it on, and then some of the weird magic will evaporate. But it will be easier to use.

Sorry about 'varifocusing', I just made that up.

Last edited by RioRico; 08-03-2011 at 02:50 PM.
08-03-2011, 04:40 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by RioRico Quote
Yes to both -- it's a vario-macro whose focus distance changes with focal length. See the Schneider Betavaron page. The link is for an older model -- I have the 3,5...11/0.08 version. Those numbers refer to enlargement ratio / physical aperture size, I think. (Documentation is sparse and unclear -- gargle for more.)
I looked a bit on those pages but I don't see a clear answer, so I just wanted to confirm - with this lens, once you pick a focal length, you can't focus with it other than by moving the lens with respect to the subject, right?
08-03-2011, 05:04 PM - 1 Like   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Quote
I looked a bit on those pages but I don't see a clear answer, so I just wanted to confirm - with this lens, once you pick a focal length, you can't focus with it other than by moving the lens with respect to the subject, right?
That is correct -- until the focusing helicoid arrives in a few days. Then I'll be able to focus without zooming and vice-versa. But as it is now, at any given focal length, I must be at the right camera-subject distance to achieve focus. I definitely depend on CIF!
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