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08-17-2011, 08:33 PM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by selar Quote
The EU ROHS (Restriction of Hazardous Substances) directive prohibiting use of lead in camera lenses (among other goods) only took effect in 2006. The FA31 commenced production in 2001. It would be fair to say that all Lens manufacturers including Pentax used lens blanks that had lead before 2006, or atleast sometime between 2003 when the ROHS was agreed to in the EU and 2006, when it came into effect.
The copy of the FA31 MIJ I have was purchased in 2005, I believe there's a fair chance that my copy has leaded glass, the fact that it was bought in a non EU country, gives me more reason to believe so.
On a separate note, many people don't realize the FA 31 was released in 2001 and FA 77 1999. Some carry on like these designs are ancient. Kawakari Jun designed the FA 43 released in 97 and the DA 40 released in 2004.

Back on topic, most of the mythology about differences were with the 43 and based on serial numbers alleged changes were made by 1999. As I said earlier, I think only a few folks like Kwakari Jun would really be able to answer the question. Perhaps if there was a change, it was with the Ghostless Coating on the rear elements rather than the SMC or glass.

QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxor Quote
if that were the case, I think the old MIJ copies command a much higher premium compared to the new MIJ copies, much so with the AIV's. it's more like they are the LIMITED EDITION of the FA LTD's.
The low # FA 43 are sought after by some, mostly for the collector factor.


Last edited by Blue; 08-18-2011 at 12:25 PM.
08-18-2011, 12:26 PM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
Huhh? I'm pretty sure I bought my 77 in 1999 or thereabout.
It was just a typo. It was released in 1999.

Last edited by Blue; 08-18-2011 at 01:14 PM.
08-18-2011, 09:15 PM   #33
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To the OP... for $900 it will sell. Closer to $1,000... it will take a while. Under $900, probably sold that day. You might get more on eBay, true, but you might not, and you might get a headache. MIJ, with all papers and box, no damage to glass or exterior = a hot commodity.

There was a good thread a while back about the low-serial number FA43s, and it did have to do with a change in the glass. Might not have been true, but it sounded good.
08-19-2011, 10:57 AM   #34
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I'd sell it on Ebay, put it into an international auction, and make sure the postage has tracking and sufficient insurance. Use decent photos. That way you will get a bigger audience and a higher price. Forget the fact that its a Pentax and any allegiance to the forums. Once its gone, you will only have money in your pocket...why have less? No one on the forum is going to overpay, as they all know what its worth, whereas you might be able to sell it to a bored soviet metals tycoon on his lunch break on Ebay, bidding against a bloke sitting in a jaccuzzi at the top of a sky scraper in Shanghai.

08-19-2011, 11:48 AM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by hoojammyflip Quote
I'd sell it on Ebay, put it into an international auction, and make sure the postage has tracking and sufficient insurance. Use decent photos. That way you will get a bigger audience and a higher price. Forget the fact that its a Pentax and any allegiance to the forums. Once its gone, you will only have money in your pocket...why have less? No one on the forum is going to overpay, as they all know what its worth, whereas you might be able to sell it to a bored soviet metals tycoon on his lunch break on Ebay, bidding against a bloke sitting in a jaccuzzi at the top of a sky scraper in Shanghai.
That would make sense so long as you felt there was a good chance it would actually sell for 10% more on ebay than on the forum. Otherwise, the amount you'll net after the ebay fees will be less. Not to mention that all things equal, selling things on the forum is generally a very easy and pleasant experience. Just my $0.02 based on my experience selling lenses here in the marketplace.
08-19-2011, 12:48 PM   #36
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I saw one go on eBay a couple of weeks back, AIV for $810 with 2 bids only. If the seller were to have sold it on here, it would have gone for $850 easy.

Less the eBay fees the seller got less than $800 for his 31 Ltd.
08-19-2011, 11:17 PM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by dgaies Quote
That would make sense so long as you felt there was a good chance it would actually sell for 10% more on ebay than on the forum. Otherwise, the amount you'll net after the ebay fees will be less. Not to mention that all things equal, selling things on the forum is generally a very easy and pleasant experience. Just my $0.02 based on my experience selling lenses here in the marketplace.
The Ebay fee is restricted to GBP 40 in the UK or USD 60. So thats 6%. You're paying to reach a larger audience. Sure you can get away without paying for services like this, but you will end up with a much smaller market place. You pay the Paypal fees whether you sell on the forum or on ebay. Because ebay offers "buyer protection", it increases the confidence of buyers who are then prepared to bid more aggressively. Conversely, there is a mail in my inbox this morning about a chap called "philoo" or "philo" who is scamming on PF...how will this be resolved, what is the size of the PF resolution centre team who deal with problem sales....how would you respond as a buyer?
08-19-2011, 11:31 PM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by nah Quote
I saw one go on eBay a couple of weeks back, AIV for $810 with 2 bids only. If the seller were to have sold it on here, it would have gone for $850 easy.

Less the eBay fees the seller got less than $800 for his 31 Ltd.
This is purely anecdotal, and a sample size of one, and completely speculative about what the seller would have got on PF. I see astronomical sale prices on kit being sold internationally on Ebay. In particular, there are professional sellers on Ebay, selling Pentax lenses for double what they are worth, on a routine basis.

Its important that the listing looks good on Ebay. Just buy a light tent for USD 40, and you can sell everything for a premium. I bought a job lot recently for a single lens in the kit, and flipped the kit for double what I paid, just because I took some care over the listing, broke it apart into individual listings. This is not something I do to make money, but I do keep a spreadsheet for what I have bought and sold, and try to keep the balance at zero, after Ebay fees and postage, to appease the wife.

The disadvantage with Ebay is that there are morons using it, trying to scam sellers. However, Ebay's resolution centre is pretty effective.

08-20-2011, 04:28 AM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by hoojammyflip Quote
The Ebay fee is restricted to GBP 40 in the UK or USD 60. So thats 6%. You're paying to reach a larger audience. Sure you can get away without paying for services like this, but you will end up with a much smaller market place. You pay the Paypal fees whether you sell on the forum or on ebay. Because ebay offers "buyer protection", it increases the confidence of buyers who are then prepared to bid more aggressively. Conversely, there is a mail in my inbox this morning about a chap called "philoo" or "philo" who is scamming on PF...how will this be resolved, what is the size of the PF resolution centre team who deal with problem sales....how would you respond as a buyer?
Yes, it is true you are selling to a smaller market when you sell on PF as compared to eBay. On the other hand, there are many buyers on here who have no interest or desire to use eBay. So while you may reach more people selling on eBay, it is quite possible you may not reach some of the most important buyers, namely Pentax enthusiasts who prefer to shop in the marketplace on the forums.

As to scams, I have no doubt that you are substantially more likely to get scammed (as a seller) if you sell on eBay as compared to here. The seller protection on eBay is weak at best. Buyer's protection, on the other hand, is quite strong on eBay and does give a buyer more "confidence" when making their purchase. However, I disagree that the buyer is then willing to pay substantially more than they would from a seller on the forum, especially from a seller on the forum with a substantial amount of feedback.

Specifically addressing the email this morning about the individual trying to scam people on here, it is certainly unfortunate that something like that occurred, but it is extraordinarily uncommon here. I have no doubt, however, that if eBay sent out an email every time someone tried to scam someone on their site, you'd never get through a fraction of your inbox in the morning
08-20-2011, 05:38 AM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by dgaies Quote
it is quite possible you may not reach some of the most important buyers, namely Pentax enthusiasts who prefer to shop in the marketplace on the forums.
For such an expensive and relatively new lens, I'd be indifferent about the motivations of the buyer. I'd just care about receiving fair payment.

My argument stems from a buyers perspective. What is the resolution procedure on PF? I'd happily run the risk on a sale of a couple of hundred dollars on PF, but once its hitting triple figures, I'd want some kind of security, that in the end I could actually escalate legally against an entity which stood to lose something if it failed to compensate me. Ebay facilitates this, does the PF market place? When it all goes wrong, who do you call?

As a PF seller, you'd just take your money out of your Paypal account and disappear from PF. As a buyer, I'd be concerned about the financial ramifications of parting with USD1k without a well defined procedure to ensure I received my item. I could just end up losing USD 1k.
08-20-2011, 05:50 AM   #41
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In fact, thinking about Ebay favouring the buyer in terms of protection being called "Buyer protection", it means that the process is skewed to ensure more buyers and disuade dodgy sellers. This in turn means that prices will get shifted higher until demand is decreased to match supply. I guess Ebay do this to try to maximise auction prices.

Still, you could always find a reference price on Ebay and then list on PF. If you dont achieve that price, then list the lens on Ebay.

As a reference, here is a recently completed Ebay listing for a silver 31mm Ltd with original bits:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SILVER-Pentax-SMC-P-FA-31-mm-F-1-8-Lens-/200641582...item2eb72b9667

GBP 850 is equal to USD 1400 at the moment.

Here are a couple of adverts from shops selling second hand kit in the UK, both pricing around GBP 1100 (ie USD 1800):
http://www.ffordes.com/product/10072316352379
http://www.srsmicrosystems.co.uk/120/Pentax-smc-FA-31mm-F1-8-AL-Limited-Lens-.html

I bought a K 2.8/24mm from Ffordes recently and can vouch for their service being superb. They offered a 1 year warranty with the lens and it was superbly packed, so you pay a premium for this service. However, the difference between this price, which is about USD 1800 and the advice to sell for around USD 850 is so large, that I'd suggest USD 850 is too far too little for this lens. I'd start at USD 1500 and see if you get any bites. You can always sell it on Ebay for USD 1400, so that should be the minimum.

Last edited by whojammyflip; 08-20-2011 at 06:05 AM.
08-20-2011, 05:55 AM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by hoojammyflip Quote
For such an expensive and relatively new lens, I'd be indifferent about the motivations of the buyer. I'd just care about receiving fair payment.

My argument stems from a buyers perspective. What is the resolution procedure on PF? I'd happily run the risk on a sale of a couple of hundred dollars on PF, but once its hitting triple figures, I'd want some kind of security, that in the end I could actually escalate legally against an entity which stood to lose something if it failed to compensate me. Ebay facilitates this, does the PF market place? When it all goes wrong, who do you call?

As a PF seller, you'd just take your money out of your Paypal account and disappear from PF. As a buyer, I'd be concerned about the financial ramifications of parting with USD1k without a well defined procedure to ensure I received my item. I could just end up losing USD 1k.
I don't disagree with your position from a buyer's perspective, but our discussion was in regards to the best place to sell a lens (starting with post #34), and therefore my arguments have been made from a seller's perspective.

There is no official resolution procedure on PF, nor should there be one. This marketplace on PF is essentially a set of online classified ad, not much different from craigslist or the local newspaper. Each transaction is between two individuals and PF is essentially just providing a place to facilitate communication. PF can ban a user, buy beyond that there isn't much they can do in the event of an issue. In terms of protection, PayPal still provides similar protection to a buyer when they buy something outside of eBay, so if a buyer pays via PayPal and there is an issue, recourse can be pursued through PayPal. Obviously this doesn't apply if you send someone a money order or pay them via a PayPal "gift", but those are options and choices that the buyer makes and each one has a different level of risk.

At the end of the day, it just pays to use common sense when dealing with any large transaction, whether it is on here, on eBay, or anywhere else. Having had an extensive number of transactions here on PF, I think that while your concerns are valid, the overwhelming majority of sellers on PF are honest, trustworthy and very easy to deal with. Is the risk zero? No, I suppose there is always a small risk. But when you combine the likelihood of having to deal with a bad seller on PF with the protection that you get through PayPal as a buyer, I wouldn't hesitate for a moment to both buy in the PF marketplace, even when we're talking about very expensive lenses.

Just my $0.02, take it for what it's worth.
08-20-2011, 06:12 AM   #43
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OK, but given as a seller, you need a buyer, as the seller you are affected by the buyers perspective. But it matters not one whit, as a seller, given the process is free to list, and you can set the price you want on PF. When viewed from this perspective, listing on PF makes a lot of sense! I should have thought more about this in the past, I'd have saved myself a lot of EBay fees!
08-20-2011, 06:13 AM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by hoojammyflip Quote
However, the difference between this price, which is about USD 1800 and the advice to sell for around USD 850 is so large, that I'd suggest USD 850 is too far too little for this lens. I'd start at USD 1500 and see if you get any bites. You can always sell it on Ebay for USD 1400, so that should be the minimum.
You are comparing apples and oranges... or more specifically US and UK prices, which are equally different. No one is getting $1400 for their 31s here, and they are certainly not getting $1800. Keep in mind the enormous VAT that is part of the prices you are quoting. You can't just do the conversion from pounds to dollars and leave it at that. If you list your 31 on eBay for $1400, no one in the US is going to touch it and no on in the UK can afford it because they'd have to add on 25-30% in taxes just to import it.

Certainly $850 is on the the low side for a MIJ 31, $950 is much closer to the going rate. On eBay you'd likely get closer to $1000 (perhaps a little more if you're lucky), which would get cut down under $950 by the time you're done paying the fees. If I were listing my MIJ 31 on the forum, I'd likely list it for $950 and if I were selling it on eBay, closer to $1000. If you or anyone else wants to pay close to $1400 for it, I'll have it in the mail by noon
08-20-2011, 06:37 AM   #45
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Taking VAT off would turn 1400 into 1100, or 1800 into 1400. Anyway, 850 looks low from the prices on the web.
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