DA 18-250mm F3.5-6.3 for outdoor sports?

RonHendriks1966 · 08-10-2011, 02:02 AM

Originally posted by tensai

its actually a really high action competitive sport in the college and club levels

‪2009 UPA Club Nationals Ultimate Frisbee Highlights‬&rlm; - YouTube

something can happen within a split second, so a good lens is a must!

That looks spectaculair!

RioRico · 08-10-2011, 08:21 AM

Originally posted by tensai

would the SMC Pentax-DA 18-250mm F3.5-6.3 ED AL [IF] be okay for outdoor sports? specifically ultimate frisbee, taking pictures from the sideline where players can be very close or pretty far. i need the range because 18-55 isn't enough and 70-300 is too much. Im also on a limited budget, so around $300. would the tamron 18-200mm F/3.5-6.3 or sigma 18-200mm F3.5-6.3 be better?

Back to the original question: I think you'll find that the DA18-250 or its Tamron twin have better reputation and reviews than either 18-200. (I can't comment about shorter AF zooms -- haven't tried them, don't know them, don't care.) And the 18-250 focal range is just so convenient!

If you get an 18-250 or whatever, I have suggestions: I see you have a Kx. I'm not sure if it has the same setting, but on my K20D to capture action with my DA18-250 or FA100-300, I will use TAv mode, with a fast shutter (maybe 1/500 or faster) and wide aperture (like f/4), and let the ISO float as necessary -- on your Kx, that could be up to ISO 6400. I may also shoot in Continuous Drive (3 fps) which on your Kx may be called Burst -- at what, 5 fps? The slight noise from higher ISO is better than blurred images, and Burst shooting (aka Spray-n-Pray) usually ensures at least some usable shots.

That's my basic photographic philosophy: DO WHATEVER IT TAKES TO GET THE SHOT!

audiobomber · 08-10-2011, 09:31 AM

Unfortunately the K-x doesn't have TAv mode.

audiobomber · 08-10-2011, 09:43 AM

Sorry to go off-topic again. This Ultimate game looks fantastic. We're having a family picnic on Thursday and I intend to try it out. As I understand it:

It''s a team sport (we'll have about a dozen players)
You pass the frisbee by throwing it to someone on your team
When you catch the frisbee, you can't move, only pivot on one foot
To score, you have to catch the frisbee in the end zone

Have I got it right? Anything else I should know?

tensai · 08-10-2011, 10:48 AM

Originally posted by audiobomber

Sorry to go off-topic again. This Ultimate game looks fantastic. We're having a family picnic on Thursday and I intend to try it out. As I understand it:

It''s a team sport (we'll have about a dozen players)
You pass the frisbee by throwing it to someone on your team
When you catch the frisbee, you can't move, only pivot on one foot
To score, you have to catch the frisbee in the end zone

Have I got it right? Anything else I should know?

Deprecated Browser Error

you mostly have the basics, another important rule is "stall counts" basically, once you get the disc your defender can count to ten and if by ten you haven't thrown it to one of your teammates its a turnover and the defense becomes offense and takes possession.

RioRico, those are some good suggestions! i usually try to make sure its on a high shutter speed. im not sure what audiobomber was talking about, my kx has Tv mode so i can set the shutter speed, and theres a setting for continuous shooting, i just need to get a lens with a little more reach!

audiobomber · 08-10-2011, 12:31 PM

Originally posted by tensai

Deprecated Browser Error

you mostly have the basics, another important rule is "stall counts" basically, once you get the disc your defender can count to ten and if by ten you haven't thrown it to one of your teammates its a turnover and the defense becomes offense and takes possession.

I like the stall count, it sounds like it would make for a more exciting game. Is the defender allowed to block or interfere with the frisbee thrower?

Originally posted by tensai

im not sure what audiobomber was talking about, my kx has Tv mode so i can set the shutter speed, and theres a setting for continuous shooting, i just need to get a lens with a little more reach!

TAv mode is only available on the higher featured bodies. It allows you to set the shutter speed and the aperture at the same time, and the camera uses the appropriate ISO from the selected range.

RioRico · 08-10-2011, 01:04 PM

Originally posted by audiobomber

TAv mode is only available on the higher featured bodies. It allows you to set the shutter speed and the aperture at the same time, and the camera uses the appropriate ISO from the selected range.

Ah, then a Kx-able workaround would be: Tv mode with a fast shutter like 1/500, and ISO range set to 100-6400 or whatever. The camera should try to keep the aperture tight and ISO low unless light is low; then it should open the aperture as far as possible; THEN is should boost the ISO. So, study the manual and experiment with settings, to find what works best.

audiobomber · 08-10-2011, 01:50 PM

Originally posted by RioRico

Ah, then a Kx-able workaround would be: Tv mode with a fast shutter like 1/500, and ISO range set to 100-6400 or whatever. The camera should try to keep the aperture tight and ISO low unless light is low; then it should open the aperture as far as possible; THEN is should boost the ISO.

Tricky business. That's why I use my K20D for action instead of my K-x. I love TAv mode.

Most lenses are soft at max aperture, so they should be stopped down. Depending on the light, aperture may not move off of wide open unless you boost the minimum ISO. OTOH, sports shots are most interesting when the background is blurred, so a wide aperture is preferred. No wonder fast lenses are standard for sports shooting.

I tend to favour sharpness, so I would likely use Av mode and boost ISO to keep shutter speeds up. The good news, this game will likely be in good light, so ISO shouldn't be excessive.

Originally posted by RioRico

So, study the manual and experiment with settings, to find what works best.

Good advice. Knowing the gear and the tradeoffs (e.g. soft wide open vs blurred background or ISO noise) will always lead to a better result than a set rule.

RioRico's advice about high speed continuous shooting is very important to capture the peak moment. One thing I would add, is not to use the Lens Correction feature with high-speed shooting. Your camera will bog down and stop after only two or three shots. I believe Highlight and Shadow compensation slow down processing, so I would also leave those off.

tensai · 08-10-2011, 03:18 PM

Originally posted by audiobomber

I like the stall count, it sounds like it would make for a more exciting game. Is the defender allowed to block or interfere with the frisbee thrower?

TAv mode is only available on the higher featured bodies. It allows you to set the shutter speed and the aperture at the same time, and the camera uses the appropriate ISO from the selected range.

ooooh okay i get it! the defender can "mark" them, so when someone catches the disc you can be as close to them as the width of the disc as you count "stall one, stall two..etc" if you get to ten before they throw it, its a turnover. if you want to know more about frisbee im sure there how to play videos on youtube!

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08-10-2011, 02:02 AM	#16
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675	Originally posted by tensai its actually a really high action competitive sport in the college and club levels ‪2009 UPA Club Nationals Ultimate Frisbee Highlights‬&rlm; - YouTube something can happen within a split second, so a good lens is a must! That looks spectaculair!

08-10-2011, 08:21 AM	#17
RioRico Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Limbo, California Posts: 11,263	Originally posted by tensai would the SMC Pentax-DA 18-250mm F3.5-6.3 ED AL [IF] be okay for outdoor sports? specifically ultimate frisbee, taking pictures from the sideline where players can be very close or pretty far. i need the range because 18-55 isn't enough and 70-300 is too much. Im also on a limited budget, so around $300. would the tamron 18-200mm F/3.5-6.3 or sigma 18-200mm F3.5-6.3 be better? Back to the original question: I think you'll find that the DA18-250 or its Tamron twin have better reputation and reviews than either 18-200. (I can't comment about shorter AF zooms -- haven't tried them, don't know them, don't care.) And the 18-250 focal range is just so convenient! If you get an 18-250 or whatever, I have suggestions: I see you have a Kx. I'm not sure if it has the same setting, but on my K20D to capture action with my DA18-250 or FA100-300, I will use TAv mode, with a fast shutter (maybe 1/500 or faster) and wide aperture (like f/4), and let the ISO float as necessary -- on your Kx, that could be up to ISO 6400. I may also shoot in Continuous Drive (3 fps) which on your Kx may be called Burst -- at what, 5 fps? The slight noise from higher ISO is better than blurred images, and Burst shooting (aka Spray-n-Pray) usually ensures at least some usable shots. That's my basic photographic philosophy: DO WHATEVER IT TAKES TO GET THE SHOT!

08-10-2011, 09:31 AM	#18
audiobomber Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Sudbury, Ontario Photos: Albums Posts: 6,806	Unfortunately the K-x doesn't have TAv mode.

08-10-2011, 09:43 AM	#19
audiobomber Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Sudbury, Ontario Photos: Albums Posts: 6,806	Sorry to go off-topic again. This Ultimate game looks fantastic. We're having a family picnic on Thursday and I intend to try it out. As I understand it: It''s a team sport (we'll have about a dozen players) You pass the frisbee by throwing it to someone on your team When you catch the frisbee, you can't move, only pivot on one foot To score, you have to catch the frisbee in the end zone Have I got it right? Anything else I should know?

08-10-2011, 10:48 AM	#20
tensai New Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: SF Bay Area Posts: 14 Original Poster	Originally posted by audiobomber Sorry to go off-topic again. This Ultimate game looks fantastic. We're having a family picnic on Thursday and I intend to try it out. As I understand it: It''s a team sport (we'll have about a dozen players) You pass the frisbee by throwing it to someone on your team When you catch the frisbee, you can't move, only pivot on one foot To score, you have to catch the frisbee in the end zone Have I got it right? Anything else I should know? Deprecated Browser Error you mostly have the basics, another important rule is "stall counts" basically, once you get the disc your defender can count to ten and if by ten you haven't thrown it to one of your teammates its a turnover and the defense becomes offense and takes possession. RioRico, those are some good suggestions! i usually try to make sure its on a high shutter speed. im not sure what audiobomber was talking about, my kx has Tv mode so i can set the shutter speed, and theres a setting for continuous shooting, i just need to get a lens with a little more reach!

08-10-2011, 12:31 PM	#21
audiobomber Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Sudbury, Ontario Photos: Albums Posts: 6,806	Originally posted by tensai Deprecated Browser Error you mostly have the basics, another important rule is "stall counts" basically, once you get the disc your defender can count to ten and if by ten you haven't thrown it to one of your teammates its a turnover and the defense becomes offense and takes possession. I like the stall count, it sounds like it would make for a more exciting game. Is the defender allowed to block or interfere with the frisbee thrower? Originally posted by tensai im not sure what audiobomber was talking about, my kx has Tv mode so i can set the shutter speed, and theres a setting for continuous shooting, i just need to get a lens with a little more reach! TAv mode is only available on the higher featured bodies. It allows you to set the shutter speed and the aperture at the same time, and the camera uses the appropriate ISO from the selected range.

08-10-2011, 01:04 PM	#22
RioRico Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Limbo, California Posts: 11,263	Originally posted by audiobomber TAv mode is only available on the higher featured bodies. It allows you to set the shutter speed and the aperture at the same time, and the camera uses the appropriate ISO from the selected range. Ah, then a Kx-able workaround would be: Tv mode with a fast shutter like 1/500, and ISO range set to 100-6400 or whatever. The camera should try to keep the aperture tight and ISO low unless light is low; then it should open the aperture as far as possible; THEN is should boost the ISO. So, study the manual and experiment with settings, to find what works best.

08-10-2011, 01:50 PM	#23
audiobomber Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Sudbury, Ontario Photos: Albums Posts: 6,806	Originally posted by RioRico Ah, then a Kx-able workaround would be: Tv mode with a fast shutter like 1/500, and ISO range set to 100-6400 or whatever. The camera should try to keep the aperture tight and ISO low unless light is low; then it should open the aperture as far as possible; THEN is should boost the ISO. Tricky business. That's why I use my K20D for action instead of my K-x. I love TAv mode. Most lenses are soft at max aperture, so they should be stopped down. Depending on the light, aperture may not move off of wide open unless you boost the minimum ISO. OTOH, sports shots are most interesting when the background is blurred, so a wide aperture is preferred. No wonder fast lenses are standard for sports shooting. I tend to favour sharpness, so I would likely use Av mode and boost ISO to keep shutter speeds up. The good news, this game will likely be in good light, so ISO shouldn't be excessive. Originally posted by RioRico So, study the manual and experiment with settings, to find what works best. Good advice. Knowing the gear and the tradeoffs (e.g. soft wide open vs blurred background or ISO noise) will always lead to a better result than a set rule. RioRico's advice about high speed continuous shooting is very important to capture the peak moment. One thing I would add, is not to use the Lens Correction feature with high-speed shooting. Your camera will bog down and stop after only two or three shots. I believe Highlight and Shadow compensation slow down processing, so I would also leave those off.

08-10-2011, 03:18 PM	#24
tensai New Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: SF Bay Area Posts: 14 Original Poster	Originally posted by audiobomber I like the stall count, it sounds like it would make for a more exciting game. Is the defender allowed to block or interfere with the frisbee thrower? TAv mode is only available on the higher featured bodies. It allows you to set the shutter speed and the aperture at the same time, and the camera uses the appropriate ISO from the selected range. ooooh okay i get it! the defender can "mark" them, so when someone catches the disc you can be as close to them as the width of the disc as you count "stall one, stall two..etc" if you get to ten before they throw it, its a turnover. if you want to know more about frisbee im sure there how to play videos on youtube!