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08-11-2011, 12:39 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by bdery Quote
Then why are people buying expensive lenses? Let's all just use pinholes?
.
Good point! Better lenses are indeed better! I greatly prefer the best quality lenses I can afford.

But at least some of the problems with relatively inexpensive older lenses can be dealt with even though doing it might be a pain in the neck - and if software fixes can improve the output of older lenses why not use them?

But its just some of the problems that can be dealt with easily - other problems are more difficult. or impossible.

Not everyone can afford the very best new optics and doing your best with what you can afford is not an unreasonable path to follow.

08-11-2011, 12:53 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by aliasant Quote
One thing that might do a difference though is the newer coatings made to supress some of the reflections from the sensor back on the rear glass.
absolutely - I love my A 50/1,7,but, like when shooting at night, with some light sources, it`s too easy to get unwanted reflections because of that, compared to DA lenses

QuoteOriginally posted by Macario Quote
I think the biggest difference will be (if there is) purple fringing and CAs. As the old lenses were not corrected for this, you could have a little to a lot. But you won't know until you try
ditto

on the other hand, good ones of old lenses are pretty useful with "soul"
but I think at least limiteds have soul too
just get the 18-55 WR kit lens and you should be fine
08-11-2011, 12:55 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by bdery Quote
Then why are people buying expensive lenses? Let's all just use pinholes?
They buy new lenses because they think they will take better pictures.


QuoteOriginally posted by Macario Quote
I think the biggest difference will be (if there is) purple fringing and CAs. As the old lenses were not corrected for this, you could have a little to a lot. But you won't know until you try
A normal priced new lens can have more CA then an old and now cheap lens.

All the new technological advances has been aimed at getting lower weight and LOWER manufacturing costs. And of course they can now make the same kind of lens not only cheaper but smaller... but is the IQ really better?
Is the picture really better because the photographer dont have to think but simply point and shoot?
Is it better that the photographer can take more pictures in shorter time and have a higher keep ratio?

Today you can get an old lens that used to cost 3000euro for maybe 100euro.
That lens will let you decide were to focus, all on your own, and it will deliver great charismatic pictures. It might give you a bad back cause of the weight and it might need more thought and time from you to nail that shot but isnt that what photography is?

Im sorry. I just done like modern lenses but I havnt tried the limited series or any other HQ AF lens. I cant afford them Maybe if you guys send me your best lens for me to "try" I will change my mind
08-11-2011, 01:15 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by aliasant Quote
That lens will let you decide were to focus, all on your own, and it will deliver great charismatic pictures.
Im sorry. I just done like modern lenses but I havnt tried the limited series or any other HQ AF lens. I cant afford them Maybe if you guys send me your best lens for me to "try" I will change my mind
I really enjoy manual focusing with older lenses, like the ones for my M42 threaded Zenith 11, but the same goes for limiteds...only gripe is no hard stop at infinity
hey, Stockholm is at least in Europe I wouldn`t mind to let you try some limiteds, come to visit Slovakia

08-11-2011, 01:16 PM - 1 Like   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by bdery Quote
Then why are people buying expensive lenses? Let's all just use pinholes? .
Actually I tried using a pinhole and found that simple deconvolution software did not help with resolution enough and f/150 leads to trouble in action shots
08-11-2011, 01:44 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by Codazzle Quote
Hi Forum,
So AFTER ALL THAT! my main question is, can I expect a huge boost in image quality just with a new piece of technology? Though I think I've asked a few questions
In my opinion there are really 3 points to consider when using legacy lenses over new lenses, and I will cover the non optical issues also.

Optical
- purely from a sharpness point of view, I expect little difference in fact some of the old takumar 50mm lenses are extremely sharp
- the older lenses are much more prone to flare, due to the coatings. newer coatings have really advanced a lot in the past 50 years
- newer lenses should manage chromeric aberations (CA) much better due to computer designs and better optical glass
- the older lenses may have lower contrast due to the coatings, and can benifit more from use of a lens hood (again due to coatings)
- there is some possibility of reflections off the sensor causing bright low contrast areas in the middle of the frame (although I rasrely see this)
- Bokeh (out of focus rendering is different) I won't say better or worse because it is a subjective issue and is very lens design dependant
- edit note Forgot to mention slight issue on older lenses of vignetting due to more accute angle of incidence of the light hitting the sensor, although this really applies to uwa lenses only

Mechanical
- the old lenses are built like tanks, and can really take a beating, the newer lenses are perhaps a little more fragile
- focusing, usually is slow with the older lenses because they have very long focus throw

Ease of use
- with the old lenses you are in to focusig manualy, doing manual exposure and stopping down to shoot, takes more time and patience
- older non KA lenses do not permit P-TTL flash, so flash is not an easy option with the older lenses, on any body after the *istDS2 which was the last body to support TTL flash.


Having said all this, I have about 25-30 legacy lenses between all versions of screw mounts up to SMC-M lenses, and have a lot of fun using them. They are for my hobby when time is my own, but I fall back on much newer lenses when time is shared, i.e. my hobby with either family or vacation,.

Last edited by Lowell Goudge; 08-11-2011 at 01:51 PM.
08-11-2011, 01:46 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by newarts Quote
Actually I tried using a pinhole and found that simple deconvolution software did not help with resolution enough and f/150 leads to trouble in action shots
Action pinhole photography! While you wait! Aw, just pump the ISO a bit...
08-11-2011, 03:02 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by bdery Quote
improvements in manufacturing allowing the creation of things only dreamed of before.
This is much more true for zooms than it is for primes. I just don't see the radical improvement between a good 50 1.4 / 85 1.4 / 35 2.0 and the current lenses produced. Same issues with flare and CA exist, and in either case, these are SMALL issues.

08-11-2011, 06:44 PM   #24
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This is why I personally prefer manual focus Pentax-A prime lenses!!! Best of both worlds if you ask me........fairly cheap vs. new AF glass, get the full benefit of lens-to-body communication, P-ttl support, newer coatings, still built strong (think, more like Mack Truck, not quite tanks), with the "only" downside really being manual focus.
08-11-2011, 10:11 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by paperbag846 Quote
This is much more true for zooms than it is for primes. I just don't see the radical improvement between a good 50 1.4 / 85 1.4 / 35 2.0 and the current lenses produced. Same issues with flare and CA exist, and in either case, these are SMALL issues.
While it might be true for those relatively easy to make prime, for wide angles (is 35 still wide, hum...), aspherical lenses have improved a lot the quality of the lenses. Aspherical lenses are nothing new (Leica have used them for decades), it's a relatively modern technology which made them more affordable: hybrid aspherical lenses.
If I remember well, the use of a non hybrid aspherical lens is one of the reason of the price of the 31 ltd.
08-11-2011, 10:42 PM - 1 Like   #26
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After all of the pixel peeping, scientific analysis, and discussion surrounding scientific and manufacturing improvement, I bought a number of new lenses. I kept on taking them out after being disappointed because, after all, I am told they are better.

Some are....many not. People throw money at a 16-50 but would they spend the same on a 28/2.0? I have both and with a K-5, for me, the 28 kills the DA* (especially how the K5 treats older glass). I ended up unloading most of my new glass.

I should mention that the look of a lens is seen as unique as the taste of food. It's what you like. Some like the look of FA ltds, some Ks, some DAs. It's easier to understand that some people don't like the same flavors than you do, but the look of a lens turns into a debate for some reason. There is no right or wrong, just what looks right for you.
08-11-2011, 11:03 PM   #27
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This is an interesting discussion. I have been using M lenses since I began in photography 10 years ago. I have also owned a Sigma UC II zoom, an old manual Vivitar zoom, and the current 18-55 DA kit lenses. The only new prime I have ever owned is the 35mm DA 2.4. After using it a few times, I really really disliked the way the images I took with it looked. I tested it against my M lenses (same subject, same f-stops), and it was nowhere near as sharp as they were. Not even close. It also had terrible CA at f4, which I thought was ridiculous for a lens with a maximum aperture of 2.4.

The final straw was the lack of an aperture ring. I was shooting a scene for a short film, and I was excited to use my primes. The camera we were using was a Canon 7D (my Kx is not as good for video and my K20D doesn't have it), and I have a K mount / EOS adapter. However, when I attached the DA lens to the EOS adapter, it automatically closed the lens to f22. Obviously, it is not Pentax's responsibility to make sure I can use their lenses with Canon bodies, but I have yet to find any substantial advantage to a lack of an aperture ring. Maybe the idea is to keep dust out.

I sold the lens last week, after having used it probably less than 10 times.

Before I sold it I did use it on one short film I shot with my Kx. When I receive a link to the project, I'll post it here, and we'll see if people can identify which shots in the project were taken with the DA.
08-12-2011, 01:07 AM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by stanic Quote
I really enjoy manual focusing with older lenses, like the ones for my M42 threaded Zenith 11, but the same goes for limiteds...only gripe is no hard stop at infinity
hey, Stockholm is at least in Europe I wouldn`t mind to let you try some limiteds, come to visit Slovakia

hehe
Thank you !
If I ever find my way down there I will take you up on that.
Or you could just send me them to my postbox

A couple of days ago I bought an old Porst 50mm f1.4 PK mount for something like 30 euros or so.
It had some mold and a black ionized mount that prevented it from stopping down in M mode. I took it apart and cleaned it + filed away some of that black on the mount so that it can stop down.
Tried it yesterday and its brilliant. Its as small if not smaller then most of my 50/1.7s and extremely sharp at 2.8 and sharp wide open but with a little sweet glow.
Havnt seen any CA yet and it seems to be quite flare resistant.

30euros!
You could by 30 of those instead of one new with PK/A and AF.
And since I have Canons EE-S viewfinder modified to fit my K5 focusing is incredibly simple and exact. I love it!
08-12-2011, 02:28 AM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by aliasant Quote
hehe
Thank you !
If I ever find my way down there I will take you up on that.
Or you could just send me them to my postbox

A couple of days ago I bought an old Porst 50mm f1.4 PK mount for something like 30 euros or so.
It had some mold and a black ionized mount that prevented it from stopping down in M mode. I took it apart and cleaned it + filed away some of that black on the mount so that it can stop down.
Tried it yesterday and its brilliant. Its as small if not smaller then most of my 50/1.7s and extremely sharp at 2.8 and sharp wide open but with a little sweet glow.
Havnt seen any CA yet and it seems to be quite flare resistant.

30euros!
You could by 30 of those instead of one new with PK/A and AF.
And since I have Canons EE-S viewfinder modified to fit my K5 focusing is incredibly simple and exact. I love it!
Those Porsts are wonderful - I'm trying to make up my mind between a Cosina 1.2 and Porst 1.2 - both around $220 - they are both incredibly sharp (even wide open) and have gorgeous (but different) idiosyncratic bokehs.

Please tell me more about that Canon EE-S viewfinder modified to fit your K5 !!!
08-12-2011, 02:31 AM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by fuent104 Quote
The only new prime I have ever owned is the 35mm DA 2.4. After using it a few times, I really really disliked the way the images I took with it looked. I tested it against my M lenses (same subject, same f-stops), and it was nowhere near as sharp as they were. Not even close. It also had terrible CA at f4, which I thought was ridiculous for a lens with a maximum aperture of 2.4.
That is not only supposed to be, but is, an incredibly sharp lens (as numerous reports state having measured the MTF). I would think that if your lens was that bad there must have been a fault and you should have sent it back for checking / replacement.
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