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09-15-2011, 09:09 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by RioRico Quote
Both, of course!

But with this kit you've nothing longer than 55mm. Will that be sufficient?
I think so. I don't see doing any birding or wildlife while traveling, mostly landscapes, architecture, portraits, interiors, closeups (detail stuff)...documentary kind of images. I've longer stuff I'll have access to at home (85/1.8 takumar, 120/2.8 takumar, 300/4 takumar and the DA-L 55-300) for more longer perspectives.

09-15-2011, 09:26 AM   #17
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I find that even the 15mm isn't wide enough at times. I can't imagine being stuck with 21mm as my widest lens (and the 15 is just a dynamite lens) ! The Sigma 30/1.4 won't break the bank and is an incredibly & sharp and versatile lens, so sharp that you can shoot across a 20m road with it then crop into the subject and still have it look like you shot them from 5m away. A little heavier but it is still small enough to pop into my pocket - I really don't know how anyone can think it heavy/bulky, it's not. Finally your 18-55 WR.
09-15-2011, 10:08 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by Frogfish Quote
I find that even the 15mm isn't wide enough at times. I can't imagine being stuck with 21mm as my widest lens ...
I'd thought to mention that. My wide solution is the Tamron 10-24 (my copy is fine). Good for tight places on the wide end and 'scapes on the long end. My basic 2-lens kit is the Tamron and the DA18-250. But these aren't super-lightweight, merely convenient as hell. I don't leave home without them, nor without a Fast Fifty.
09-16-2011, 07:09 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by Frogfish Quote
I find that even the 15mm isn't wide enough at times. I can't imagine being stuck with 21mm as my widest lens (and the 15 is just a dynamite lens) ! The Sigma 30/1.4 won't break the bank and is an incredibly & sharp and versatile lens, so sharp that you can shoot across a 20m road with it then crop into the subject and still have it look like you shot them from 5m away. A little heavier but it is still small enough to pop into my pocket - I really don't know how anyone can think it heavy/bulky, it's not. Finally your 18-55 WR.
I'm trying to figure out the wide end now! So I'm good with the 18-55 WR and the DA 40/2.8...but do I stick with the 18-55 only for wide stuff, my 17/4 Fisheye Takumar, the DA 21mm, or the DA 15mm?

The fisheye will have an even wider perspective than the 15mm and won't cost me anything...and while there may be a weight penalty (100g?) but I would wager it isn't much larger than the 21...maybe smaller than the15. It does have an exposed front element and cap that tends to fall off which worry me.

The 21mm sounds great...moderate wide for landscapes (maybe a little long), small size. The 15mm is more expensive, bigger, but has the optics and the FOV I'd probably prefer.

The kit is what it is, but for size reasons I don't want it on the front of my camera unless it's specifically called for...weather or flexibility required.

09-16-2011, 08:01 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by SpecialK Quote
A 12-24 and something else, perhaps the 55-300 if you shoot long, or a 28-75 that will do some portraits and building detail.
While I would like a own a set of zooms like this it's way too much weight for some of my activities (backpacking and travel). so I have lenses that I can use everywhere and hopefully in a few years I'll add these also.

I ordered a DA15 (technically not me) and DA40 this week and will combine them with a K24/M28 and/or a M135 for my backpacking kit.

Quick note to the original post - use the kit zoom for awhile and find out if you would like using a 21mm and 40mm primes as your primary lenses. I found the 21mm (on the kit zoom) creating empty photos since it's pretty wide. And I prefer walking around with a 28mm lens. I really wish Pentax offered a pancake ltd in the 26-30mm range. It will be interesting to see how much I like the 40mm focal length though. I have grown to like the fast fifties if there is any open space around me so I think the DA40 will work out. While the DA15 will require different composition than I'm used to but I'm pretty excited about that.
09-17-2011, 11:06 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by d.bradley Quote
The fisheye will have an even wider perspective than the 15mm and won't cost me anything...and while there may be a weight penalty (100g?) but I would wager it isn't much larger than the 21...maybe smaller than the15.
You can easily lookup specs here but I went ahead and did it for you...
17mm fisheye 234g 3.4cm long
15mm limited 212g 3.95cm long

Also the 17mm will have distortion which the 15mm does not have and it won't be wider than the 15mm. They are two different lenses. The fisheye gives you the distortion if you like that look, the 15mm gives very clean and representative landscapes...
09-17-2011, 11:28 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by atlnq9 Quote
Also the 17mm will have distortion which the 15mm does not have and it won't be wider than the 15mm.
Actually a 17mm fisheye is considerably wider than a 15mm. A 17mm fisheye captures +/-100 degrees, about the width of a 12mm rectilinear lens. Of course it does this by squeezing the edges, causing distortion.
09-17-2011, 11:34 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by atlnq9 Quote
Also the 17mm will have distortion which the 15mm does not have and it won't be wider than the 15mm. They are two different lenses. The fisheye gives you the distortion if you like that look, the 15mm gives very clean and representative landscapes...
A slight quibble: Yes, a 17mm fisheye IS wider than a 15mm rectilinear. AOV on APS-C for the 17-FE is about 103 deg; for the 15-RL it's about 90 deg. The FE distortion of the 17 is fairly minor on APS-C and can be defished to an equivalent of 12mm rectilinear, with some slight loss of resolution. And a major advantage of this 17-FE is that the OP already owns it!

09-17-2011, 11:38 AM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by audiobomber Quote
Actually a 17mm fisheye is considerably wider than a 15mm. A 17mm fisheye captures +/-100 degrees, about the width of a 12mm rectilinear lens. Of course it does this by squeezing the edges, causing distortion.
Define wider, widest section of the lens or narrowest... By the time you correct the distortion in PP and crop it it is narrower...

QuoteOriginally posted by RioRico Quote
AOV on APS-C for the 17-FE is about 103 deg; for the 15-RL it's about 90 deg. The FE distortion of the 17 is fairly minor on APS-C and can be defished to an equivalent of 12mm rectilinear, with some slight loss of resolution. And a major advantage of this 17-FE is that the OP already owns it!
So maybe I am wrong I don't know. And as a note there Rio nowhere in that note there did I bash the 17 and say you had to have the 15... In fact I pointed out the weights and sizes were very comparable...

Last edited by atlnq9; 09-17-2011 at 11:45 AM.
09-17-2011, 11:47 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by atlnq9 Quote
Define wider
I define wider by angle of view the lens captures. I don't have a spec for the older 17mm prime, but it should be equal to the zoomed end of a 10-17mm.

DA 10-17mm Fisheye:
Angle of View: 180 - 100 degrees

DA 15mm Ltd:
Angle of View: 86

I have both lenses, there is a big difference in fov.

QuoteOriginally posted by atlnq9 Quote
By the time you correct the distortion in PP and crop it it is narrower...
But you don't have to correct and crop. I've taken hundreds of fisheye photos and only corrected one.
09-17-2011, 01:40 PM   #26
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My story: I own the DA10-17 (the lens that drove me to Pentax), the Tamron 10-24 (now an indispensable piece of my kit) and the Zenitar 16/2.8 (which the Tam has largely supplanted). My original 2-piece kit contained the 10-17 and 18-250; now it's the 10-24 and 18-250. The Zen is very similar to the Tak 17/4 (but faster) and has its special niche for me, shooting dimmer interiors. But unless one's sports shooting includes skateboard closeups, I don't recommend any fisheye for a general-purpose sports-travel 2-piece kit.

In fact, I can't recommend ANY 2-piece kit; they're just too restrictive. The three areas to pursue in building a kit: 1) coverage; 2) speed; 3) character. So a minimal kit would have an UWA and a superzoom, and some selected fast glass, and some specialty glass like a FE.
09-18-2011, 09:41 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by RioRico Quote
My story: I own the DA10-17 (the lens that drove me to Pentax), the Tamron 10-24 (now an indispensable piece of my kit) and the Zenitar 16/2.8 (which the Tam has largely supplanted). My original 2-piece kit contained the 10-17 and 18-250; now it's the 10-24 and 18-250. The Zen is very similar to the Tak 17/4 (but faster) and has its special niche for me, shooting dimmer interiors. But unless one's sports shooting includes skateboard closeups, I don't recommend any fisheye for a general-purpose sports-travel 2-piece kit.

In fact, I can't recommend ANY 2-piece kit; they're just too restrictive. The three areas to pursue in building a kit: 1) coverage; 2) speed; 3) character. So a minimal kit would have an UWA and a superzoom, and some selected fast glass, and some specialty glass like a FE.
Funny, my three areas of pursuit in building my kit are 1) size, 2) coverage and 3) quality. My reasoning is that the best equipment for the job if the stuff that gets used the most...I'd rather take 500 photos with a lens or setup with more limitations than take 20 photos with a big, heavy high quality lens. I'd get a lot more keepers and tell a better story with the 500 shots, even if they're not perfect.
I'm not out in the world with the goal of taking photographs...but I do want to document some of my experiences.

I picked up 2nd hand copies of DA21 and DA40 locally, and am testing them out before my trip so see what will work, in the end picking between the 17/4 fisheye, 18-55WR, DA21 and DA40. I think a setup like the K5 with the pancake is pretty amazing...the quality and photographic control of a DSLR that can fit in a tiny travel pack with my passport and wallet. Quiet shutter, high ISO quality and DR, compact body and lens...fast, unobtrusive, perfect! I don't think you can get much smaller without losing the mirror, and I'm not willing to move to a "Q" or a point and shoot just yet.
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