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09-08-2011, 04:18 PM   #16
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You might want to read this article. It does not exactly answer your question. But addresses one aspect of it:

The Online Photographer: Another Internet Canard: /1.4 Lenses

09-08-2011, 05:44 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by psychdoc Quote
You might want to read this article. It does not exactly answer your question. But addresses one aspect of it:

The Online Photographer: Another Internet Canard: /1.4 Lenses
Interesting essay and comments -- too bad the comments are long-closed, because my response is:

The author missed the point of shooting wide-open. Yes, sharpness is always worse wide-open. But we don't shoot at f/1.2 or f/1.4 for edge-to-edge sharpness. We shoot there for thin DOF, yeah sure. But mainly we shoot there TO GRAB LIGHT, to capture images that would otherwise be impossible. Some shoot fast (wide-open) all the time; that's a style. Some shoot slow (stopped-down) much|most of the time -- but the ability to shoot fast can be a butt-saver. And a slow lens just doesn't have the DOF control, that's a fact.

You'll have to drag my K50/1.2 from my cold, dead fingers. But there's no rush.
09-09-2011, 01:22 AM   #18
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What s the point if you have f1.2 and not using it? I have a dozen lenses that can be used at other f number.
And how can one avoid LBA? It is just too fun to try out just another more.
What i can is try to maximize every dollar, buy old cheap first, buy lots, fleamarkets, local ad, contacts..
As i am moving forward in the fields, i grab those equipment i can afford.
Some cheap light modifiers, cheap old flashes, had kept me busy for a year.
Reverse rings and tubes, few more months, until i found out i dont really have time to be productive in macro.
Too bad that i have sometime wanted to buy T* glasses, but that will set me back for at least a year, so i went for the tilt setup.
Maybe my LBA can let me alone for a while...

RioRico, you should build or find a tilt adapter. DOF becomes truly 3D allow one to do more with existing glasses.
A bellow attached to m42 lenses, with a kind of supporting the lens' weight? It's limited, but usable for most cases.
09-09-2011, 05:58 AM   #19
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I have not seen any really good answers yet, that really address the OP's needs

He obviously wants to expand upon what he is doing photographically, but does not want to get caught up in purchasing lenses because they are spec'ed better or different to what he has already.,

OK here is step 1 in LBA controlled.

What do you shoot now, with your present kit and what do you want to shoot / explore creatively with a new lens purchase.

to find out, go back through the last year's shots and look at the subjects, also look at the exif using a program like exposure plot. (a free tool that will give you a breakdown on % of shots as a function of focal length, aperture, shutter speed, iso, etc.....

If you are always at the extremes of focal length, either you are lazy and do not move arouond at all to frame your shots, or you truely need to extend your lens range.

if you are always pushing ISO higher and at maximum aperature all the time, perhaps you need faster lenses, etc.......

Think about what you want to shoot and what the best opptions are within budget, to achieve it.

Plan your system. get what covers the apertures and focal lengths you need. If you are always outside on sunny days, and do not need razor thin depth of field for creative purposes, yuou don't need fast glass, etc.....

I applied these rules for years, only taking things if they expanded on my system, longer faster wider etc. and no duplicates... That worked very very well, for a long time, and only really got derailed when I made a decision to experiment with M42 lenses.

My first M42 lens purchase was one of a mixture of need and want. I do a lot of low light shooting, and needed/wanted a 35mm fast lens. At the time, all I could find was an SMC 35/2 so I got it for a very good price. Love the lens and still use it, but I found that dealing with the adaptor for a single lens was a bit of a pain. I then picked up a few mopre M42 lenses (good ones but really cheap i.e. <$10) and at some point, when a favourite used camera store was about to close, I decided to build an M42 kit, taking some good lenses from that store (Super tak 50/1.4 version1, super tak 85/1.9 and takumar 200/3.5 preset) at a really good price, and then shopping around for unusual lenses mostly presets etc, and now have an M42 kit from 24-200mm. All is fast, all but one are good, but it was not a logical selection,


The point of this discussion is, that at some point, even if you control LBA, you can be tempted to experiment as I did, I use my M42 lenses, and enjoyy them, as I also do wiuth my K mount lens kit, which is just as extensive, but do I really need both. No,

Am I as bad as RioRico, no, not yet, and not by a big margin. BUT unless there is really something out there I doubt I will get many more lenses. A good AF zoom kit, a good K mount MF kit and a good M42 Kit should be enough for quite a long time

09-09-2011, 06:17 AM   #20
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I stayed with one lens for many years. Then K28shift, and so on... You can select the fields to enter, then get the gear, but not leave that field until you master it. And keep one field at a time.
09-09-2011, 06:39 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lowell Goudge Quote
I have not seen any really good answers yet, that really address the OP's needs

He obviously wants to expand upon what he is doing photographically, but does not want to get caught up in purchasing lenses because they are spec'ed better or different to what he has already.,

OK here is step 1 in LBA controlled.

What do you shoot now, with your present kit and what do you want to shoot / explore creatively with a new lens purchase.

to find out, go back through the last year's shots and look at the subjects, also look at the exif using a program like exposure plot. (a free tool that will give you a breakdown on % of shots as a function of focal length, aperture, shutter speed, iso, etc.....

If you are always at the extremes of focal length, either you are lazy and do not move arouond at all to frame your shots, or you truely need to extend your lens range.

if you are always pushing ISO higher and at maximum aperature all the time, perhaps you need faster lenses, etc.......

Think about what you want to shoot and what the best opptions are within budget, to achieve it.

Plan your system. get what covers the apertures and focal lengths you need. If you are always outside on sunny days, and do not need razor thin depth of field for creative purposes, yuou don't need fast glass, etc.....

I applied these rules for years, only taking things if they expanded on my system, longer faster wider etc. and no duplicates... That worked very very well, for a long time, and only really got derailed when I made a decision to experiment with M42 lenses.

My first M42 lens purchase was one of a mixture of need and want. I do a lot of low light shooting, and needed/wanted a 35mm fast lens. At the time, all I could find was an SMC 35/2 so I got it for a very good price. Love the lens and still use it, but I found that dealing with the adaptor for a single lens was a bit of a pain. I then picked up a few mopre M42 lenses (good ones but really cheap i.e. <$10) and at some point, when a favourite used camera store was about to close, I decided to build an M42 kit, taking some good lenses from that store (Super tak 50/1.4 version1, super tak 85/1.9 and takumar 200/3.5 preset) at a really good price, and then shopping around for unusual lenses mostly presets etc, and now have an M42 kit from 24-200mm. All is fast, all but one are good, but it was not a logical selection,


The point of this discussion is, that at some point, even if you control LBA, you can be tempted to experiment as I did, I use my M42 lenses, and enjoyy them, as I also do wiuth my K mount lens kit, which is just as extensive, but do I really need both. No,

Am I as bad as RioRico, no, not yet, and not by a big margin. BUT unless there is really something out there I doubt I will get many more lenses. A good AF zoom kit, a good K mount MF kit and a good M42 Kit should be enough for quite a long time
Sounds like good advice to em, I do alot of family activities, sports, camping trips etc but I also want to do portrait work So I probably will end up with about 4 main lenses and a couple just for experimenting who doesnt want a "fisheye" So I will probably end up with two good zoom lenses to cover my range and 3 good primes and hope not to break the bank.

JJ
09-09-2011, 07:30 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lowell Goudge Quote
Am I as bad as RioRico, no, not yet, and not by a big margin.
Bad? BAD?!?!? What's so bad about an accumulation?!?

But I'm not as bad as DudDao, who's not as bad as Attila, who's not as bad as my bro-in-law, who's not as bad as Imelda Marcos, etc.

QuoteOriginally posted by jerryleejr Quote
So I will probably end up with two good zoom lenses to cover my range and 3 good primes and hope not to break the bank.
And as Lowell and I and others mention, many great old manual primes are still very cheap. So to get a few good AF zooms (new and used), a very few good AF primes, and however many good old MF primes as will fit, won't break the bank. Not unless it's a very small bank.
09-09-2011, 07:55 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by RioRico Quote
Bad? BAD?!?!? What's so bad about an accumulation?!?

But I'm not as bad as DudDao, who's not as bad as Attila, who's not as bad as my bro-in-law, who's not as bad as Imelda Marcos, etc.


And as Lowell and I and others mention, many great old manual primes are still very cheap. So to get a few good AF zooms (new and used), a very few good AF primes, and however many good old MF primes as will fit, won't break the bank. Not unless it's a very small bank.
I think it is not about quantity but about how much $$ it took to accumulate what you have cause I know the half dozen or so I am looking at probably cost more than about 50 or so that Rico has in his triple digit collection LOL.

JJ

09-09-2011, 08:00 AM   #24
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I think basically for me, I started off with a couple of zooms (for flexibility) and then built around them with primes that fit the focal lengths that I prefer. Primes are nice from a size, speed (aperture) and bokeh (out of focus area) stand point. It really starts with focal length though. If I don't see the world well through a specific focal length, then there is minimal point in my getting a lens in that focal length.

Aperture to me is secondary to other characteristics of a lens. The 43 limited is nearly a stop slower than the FA 50, but it is at least as sharp at f2 and has much nicer out of focus rendering at similar apertures.
09-09-2011, 10:23 AM   #25
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I'll chime in with my two Quatloos of input. That 50mm f/2 can produce some very nice images at a very low cost. Not that I'd turn down a 1.7 or 1.4 if someone accosted me in an alley and shoved it in my palm...
09-09-2011, 11:11 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by jerryleejr Quote
I think it is not about quantity but about how much $$ it took to accumulate what you have cause I know the half dozen or so I am looking at probably cost more than about 50 or so that Rico has in his triple digit collection LOL.
First, initial cost: I had a small inheritance. [Thanks for dying, Mom!] That bought the K20D and the first ~100 lenses, including most of the AFs. (And some knee surgery.) Remaining gear was paid for by dealing on eBay, where I've sold ~110 lenses and 30 cameras so far.

Next, relative cost: My few AF lenses cost an average of ~US$230 each. My many non-AF lenses cost an average of ~US$20 each. So any one AFL cost more than any 11 MFL's. And my two most expensive new AF zooms (DA18-250 and Lil'Bigma 170-500) cost only a little less than what I paid for the >110 lenses I've sold. So in this case, one good AF zoom costs about like 55 MFL's. Ay yi yi.

NOTE: These aren't hard numbers, but they ARE indicative.

I try to deal carefully but I fock up enough too. Still, I've accumulated some really nice and fast MF glass for really good prices. That takes time and research. My time is worthless, so no problem! Much of my LBA fun comes from the hunt itself, the research, comparisons, bidding. Winning is rare but great, and I learn a lot in the process. (Like, don't bid on 5 Industar-61's at once, hoping to win one, because you might win them all!) And unwanted lenses can always be sold; wait a couple months and sell high. (My lens profit is ~90%.)
________________________________________________________

My lens-buying rule: If it costs less than a hamburger, grab it. If it costs more than a supreme pizza, think real hard about it.

My auction rule: Bid low. Bid often. Lose 99% of bids. Don't sweat it; another will come along immediately. These aren't rare.

My sales rule: Describe it thoroughly and start the bidding at 99 cents. The open market usually drives prices to surprising levels.
09-09-2011, 11:34 AM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by jerryleejr Quote
Was wondering is someone can point me in the right direction, Searching produced way more results than I can read thru. I know what the numbers mean but given a set focal range what determines if it is a 1.4 or 2.8 even 1.9 or 1.7 When buying why choose one over the other and not just opt for the 1.4? Am I missing something obviously budget has a lot to do with it from a buyer's perspective Or maybe I am not understanding it as well as I thought I did. I guess if the optical quality and price was the same kind of scenerio

JJ
Search engines typically sort results by significance, no need to read ALL the results. Doing your homework is essential to "making every penny count." Becoming a "bottom feeder", buying low price lenses just for the pleasure of trying many lenses, and the possibly getting something exceptional, is a worthwhile learning experience imho.
09-09-2011, 11:56 AM   #28
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JJ


Your plan is a good one stick to it, 3-4 good AF zooms, and a selecvt few primes.\

as to cost in some cases you are correct, but do not discount luck in the equation.

My whole M42 lit, including the hard case it resides in (that's right, a case just for M42 lenses) is as follows, and cost $1000 in total

24mm F2.5 Tamron adaptall II
28 mm F2.5 vivitar
35mm F2 SMC Takumar
50mm F1.4 Super tak (version 1)
50mm F4 SMC Macro Tak
55mm F2 SMC Takumar
58mm F2 Helios
85mm F1.9 Super tak
105mm F2.8 Vernon Edonar (preset 12 blade aperture)
135mm F2.9 Tele lentar (preset 14 blade aperture)
135mm F3,5 SMC Tak
135mmF2.8 Rikenon
200mm F4 SMC Tak
200mm F3.5 Takumar (preset 17 blade aperture)
set of origonal pentax extension tubes
2x tamron Multi coated TC
2x Soligor TC
15-30mm Pentax Focusing Helix (variable extension tube)

various SMC Pentax multi coated filters, and hoods for almost every lens on the list) some pentax some B&W.

While I may be able to get randomly 14 M42 lenses for less than this, I think it is pretty dfifficult to put the majority of this package together for what I have into it.
All I really need ??? is that the correct word, is something in the 15-18mm range.
09-09-2011, 04:27 PM   #29
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You are missing the tak 15mm f3.5, asph if possible, but i think you are doing just fine without asph element.
;-)
09-09-2011, 05:28 PM   #30
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Oh, so it's M42 kits now, is it?

21/3.8 -- Lentar-Tokina
24/2.8 -- Sigma-Z
28/2.8 -- Accura (Cimko?) Diamatic, Focal-Makinon, Hanimex, Makinon, Sears-Tomioka
35/2.8 -- Isco Westron, Porst Weitwinkel
35/3.5 -- Super Takumar
37/2.8 -- Mir-1
50/1.4 -- Super Takumar
50/1.7 -- Yashinon-DX
50/1.8 -- Meyer Oreston, Pentacon Electric
50/2.0 -- Rikenon
50/2.8 -- CZJ Tessar, Meyer Domiplan
50/3.5 -- Industar-50, Meyer Primotar-E
50/4.0 -- Macro Takumar (1:1)
55/1.4 -- Sears-Tomioka
55/1.7 -- Argus-Chinon Cintar
55/1.8 -- Super Takumar, Mamiya-Sekor, Petri CC, Rikenon
55/2.0 -- Super Takumar (x2)
55/2.8 -- Porst Color Reflex
58/2.0 -- Helios-44
90/2.8 -- Vivitar-Komine macro (1:1)

100/2.8 -- Meyer Trioplan
105/2.8 -- Super Takumar
105/3.5 -- Novoflex Noflexar (EL)
105/4.5 -- Steinheil Culminar (EL)
135/2.5 -- S-M-C Takumar
135/2.8 -- Sears-Tomioka
135/3.5 -- S-M-C Takumar, Enna Tele-Ennalyt, Hanimar Preset, Rikenon
180/5.5 -- Meyer Telemegor
200/3.5 -- Focal (Cimko?)
200/4.0 -- Super Takumar, Jupiter-21M
200/5.6 -- Tele Takumar
240/4.5 -- Enna Tele-Ennalyt
300/5.6 -- Alpa-Chinon
400/6.3 -- Spiratone
1000/10 - Rubinar Makpo mirror

55-135/3.5 - Sears-Tokina
70-210/3.5 - Vivitar-Kiron S1V1

and some 2x and 3x TC's, a couple bellows, and a bunch of tubes. I could have cheated, and added some T2 lenses, but I got rid of all the M42 mounts and only use PK on those now. I didn't list the M39's either. No, I don't carry all these together as a kit. No more than ten at a time.
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