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09-16-2011, 08:34 AM   #1
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The End Of "M"s?

First off, let me state; I Love My M Lenses!!! They are quite possibly the coolest, sharpest, best-performing manual series ever made. By anybody. So there.
However, is it possible that the DSLR revolution is the death knell for the popular sales of used M's.?
No Auto. M's are "auto-nothing".
Which is a large part of their charm, we all agree.
But I'm not preaching to the choir, I'm referring to the rest of the world. Who may or may not be entranced by the need to use the green button ("Huh? It won't work in program?") and may or may not have a background in film cameras, manual settings and all those other details that could prevent them from P + S.
Ok, I'm not going to bash the P + S crowd. Not too much, anyway. They are having fun with their photo equipment, just like we are. But they do it in a different way, mainly in "Program".
Which doesn't make them bad people, you understand.
After they get past the kit lenses, they (assuming their camera choice is Pentax, of course!) might wander onto this site or an article in a camera mag and find out our secret. Pentax kept the infamous K mount. Backward compatibility forever.
But, the older series lenses don't support the new features. If it's older than "A" it won't click into Auto.
Oh, they might forgive the need to turn the focusing ring and maybe even move the dial a little to see what happens when you change the shutter speed. There, that was fun, wasn't it?
But, full manual AND the green button? I don't think so.
So, I'm guessing the A's, FA's and of course DA's will sell just fine and the prices will go up. Everything does, eventually.
Which leaves the M's where?
Perhaps the day will come when you can purchase a clean 85mm F2.0 for $50.00.
Shipping included.
It could happen. Or not.

09-16-2011, 08:56 AM   #2
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Hysterical


I am sorry. This is the funniest post I have seen all month.

laugh

Was this intended as sarcasm? I mean an M 85/2 for $50? I will jump on one for that. However, the prices have been going up on those since dSLR came out rather than down.
09-16-2011, 09:04 AM   #3
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Dude...why would "M" lenses go away when people are still buying thread-mount Pentax lenses? As long as there are DSLRs that use the K-mount, all Pentax lenses will be desired.
09-16-2011, 10:31 AM   #4
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There will continue to be a price differential between A capable lenses (and Adaptall adapters!) and regular K, for the reasons you mention.

But here's the win/lose side of the internet: on the win side, we all learn about these manual focus lenses and how wonderful they are. We learn about the green button. We have a couple of beers or glasses of wine and happen to be browsing the bay... with predictable consequences Many of us will actually use these M lenses so bought, some won't due to the complications.

But the dark side: where there might have been 50 of us waiting for the KEH catalog, now there are 50,000 of us voracious internet types prowling for that M 85. And the more there are of us, and the more outlets we cover as a group, the more efficient the markets become and about the only lucky bastards who get one for $50 do so at a yard sale (where the seller throws in two LXs and a 50/1.2) or some out of the way pawn shop.

09-16-2011, 11:04 AM   #5
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With manual focus lenses my composition is already slowed down enough that the green button stop down is the least of my concerns.

Nice rant though.
09-16-2011, 11:05 AM   #6
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The pleasure of using a beautifully made lens will always be there, whether you have to go manual or not. Forget "light weight" etc. I remember how I felt about the first auto focus lenses and how "plastic" they seemed. Even the best built modern lenses don't have the heft and smooth feel of the best old manual lenses. My old 35-105 still a pleasure to use (yeah it is an A lens, but I often use it in full manual mode). I'd love to find a Pentax-M 200 f/2.5.
09-16-2011, 11:08 AM   #7
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I don't believe we will find much (if any) agreement with the OP here.
09-16-2011, 11:35 AM   #8
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Almost anyone really getting into Pentax DSLRs will appreciate an M the first time they handle and use one. Even at current prices, they represent one of the best IQ/price ratios available from anyone - and then there's the size, an added bonus.

I think MF itself is a bigger hurdle than green-button assist, which is in fact fast and very easy to use. Yet Voigtlander, Zeiss and now Samyang/Vivitar/etc are creating some of the best optics out there, and they are MF - and successful.

AF is essential for fast/easy use, but as your skills increase, you begin to enjoy the precise focus MF can bring, and the exact exposure control available from a green button-with-optional-dial-tweak shot flow.

Also... I hate to bring up FF again , but when a Pentax FF camera appears, these M lenses will see yet another renewal, I predict.


.

09-16-2011, 11:37 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by jsherman999 Quote
but when a Pentax FF camera appears, these M lenses will see yet another renewal, I predict
By the same token, I've started stockpiling Pentax 67 glass for the day they release the digital 67
09-16-2011, 12:00 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by rbefly Quote
But I'm not preaching to the choir, I'm referring to the rest of the world.
To hell with the rest of the world. Let them eat iPhones.

QuoteOriginally posted by Nesster Quote
... and about the only lucky bastards who get one for $50 do so at a yard sale (where the seller throws in two LXs and a 50/1.2) or some out of the way pawn shop.
Out of the way pawn shops have DSL and eBay accounts too. Market prices are known. Antiques shops run by aesthetes are more productive. That's how I got a virgin Kilfitt Makro Kilar E 40/3.5 on a spotless Exakta VX body for US$65 plus tax.
09-16-2011, 12:18 PM   #11
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I would agree with Blue this is the funniest post ever seen. Or maybe the saddest esample yet of misunderstanding the market.

You can't be serious, just look at other posts complaining about the increasing rarity (lets rephrase that to increasing scarcity) and continually rising cost of legacy lenses in the photo stores, and on fleece-bay.

I think that either serious photographers are hoarding (Can't be me, I only have 45 lenses or so, and definitely can't be Rio Rico with 200+ lenses) or the rest of the world as you put it have caught on to the idea too.

While automatic functions exist, they exist for one reason and one reason only. They provide instant gratification of relitively good shots when you first pick up a camera before you take the time to learn properly about photography.

I have found that the mode you shoot, the less you use auto functions, or at best you use them judiciously to get the results you want. i.e. you gradually wrestle control of the image away from the computer and camera software developer and take control yourself.
09-16-2011, 12:29 PM   #12
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OK, Just Kidding!

Hey Guys and Gals,
Yes, it was a joke. And a bit of wishful thinking too, since I just today (my birthday, I might add) paid a measly $250.00 plus shipping for the revered but seldom seen M 85mm f2.0 from eBay.
"Buy It Now" for $400.00 or make offer. So I did, and after 45 hours (out of a maximum of 48) the seller took my offer.
No, the "M" prices aren't going down, they aren't going anywhere. Those that have'm keep them and everyone else pays nearly top dollar.
Sorry if anyone was offended, it's obvious (to me, anyway) that every series of Pentax lenses has its devoted followers and collectors. Digital photography won't change that. My point was that folks that were raised on digital may not enjoy the extra effort and time required to use all-manual lenses.
"M"s Forever!!!
09-16-2011, 12:37 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by rbefly Quote
Hey Guys and Gals,
Yes, it was a joke. And a bit of wishful thinking too, since I just today (my birthday, I might add) paid a measly $250.00 plus shipping for the revered but seldom seen M 85mm f2.0 from eBay.
"Buy It Now" for $400.00 or make offer. So I did, and after 45 hours (out of a maximum of 48) the seller took my offer.
No, the "M" prices aren't going down, they aren't going anywhere. Those that have'm keep them and everyone else pays nearly top dollar.
Sorry if anyone was offended, it's obvious (to me, anyway) that every series of Pentax lenses has its devoted followers and collectors. Digital photography won't change that. My point was that folks that were raised on digital may not enjoy the extra effort and time required to use all-manual lenses.
"M"s Forever!!!
Not a bad price for the M85/2 but I probably won't be getting one, given I already have the super-tak 85/1.9 and the samyang 85/1.4, I might have LBA but not that much, in fact, I know where there is an M85/2 (or at least where it was last saturday) and didn't even ask the price.

p.s. anyone in toronto should go to Downtown camera if they want it.
09-16-2011, 12:50 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by rbefly Quote
Ok, I'm not going to bash the P + S crowd. Not too much, anyway. They are having fun with their photo equipment, just like we are. But they do it in a different way, mainly in "Program".
Does my K20D's "hyper-program" work? Because I always use that, seeing as it gives me instant Tv or Av
09-16-2011, 01:39 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lowell Goudge Quote
I think that either serious photographers are hoarding (Can't be me, I only have 45 lenses or so, and definitely can't be Rio Rico with 200+ lenses) or the rest of the world as you put it have caught on to the idea too.
Hoarding, moi? I'm a piker compared to others here and elsewhere. And some are only 'hoarded' because they ain't worth selling. Yet. I should disclose that my pile is about 2/3 camera lenses, and 1/3 enlarger-copy-projector-MF-etc stuff that I use on bellows. (I log the Raynox and TCs as lenses, but exclude 'filter' lenses.)

QuoteOriginally posted by bdery Quote
Does my K20D's "hyper-program" work? Because I always use that, seeing as it gives me instant Tv or Av
Hay, even my now-old (ca.2004) fave P&S lets me jump almost instantly between the equivalent of Green, P, Tv, Av, and M. (Sv is buried a menu.) Even P&S dweebs can get serious, eh?
________________________________________________________

Now, let's assume that certain market forces actually work (without undue coersion, corruption, manipulation, etc) and that supply+demand has real-world implications. A rising demand for MF lenses *should* provoke production of more. Samyang is tapping-into that demand with quality lenses. But there's still room for even more budget producers. Why aren't Chinese factories pouring out floods of simple glass? Time-tested designs, out of patent, preset apertures, in at least M42-PK-N/AI-EOS mounts, no problem. Where are the entrepreneurs?
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