ND and CPL filter for DA15mm?

catastrophe · 09-28-2011, 07:11 AM

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So the CPL should be this one?
Marumi DHG Super 49mm Circular PL D Polarizer Filter | eBay

it says Special slim frame to eliminate vignetting when used with wide angle lenses

Just need to confirm it doesn't interfere with the hood as some claim 'slim' filters do.

Deciding between these NDs now...any difference between those 2 Marumis? The B+W also is a single coated, is that ok? Other noob question, can you adjust the f stop on these filters?

49mm MARUMI ND8 Filter Neutral Density JAPAN 49 | eBay

MARUMI 49mm DHG LIGHT CONTROL 8 - Neutral Density 0.9 | eBay

Hoya HMC 49mm ND-400 (Multi-Coated) Neutral Density | eBay

B+W ND 1000x 110 3.0 Neutral Density Coated Filter 49mm | eBay

steve1307 · 09-28-2011, 07:45 AM

Originally posted by catastrophe

hmm, I have heard not to get a thin one for the 15mm. Anyone kind enough to post what filters they use for their CPL and ND and where to get them? I live in Australia. There's a few different versions of the Marumi CPL. I'll be using the filters on a 35mm f2.4 too.

Well I use B&W CPL and ND8 (3stop) filters (the MRC versions)
The only "black glass" I have is the Hoya ND400 9stop - but really its onl y about 8 1/3" stop as I mention above.

This is the Hoya ND400 and the B&W CPL on a DA15.

two things:
The ND400 really is very dark even in the full size shot you can barely see the outline if my fingers behind it.
AF is impossible, not usually an issue with a DA15 as everything from 4ft to infinty is usually in focus anyway.
Matrix metering is not reliable at all. I've found that center or spot is not bad for an approximate if the light is good but really manual metering is the way to go.

B&W CPL This photo is the 49mm Regular sized filter not the slim one.

The slim version of the B&W does not fit under the sliding hood (ditto for the DA35, and also i guess the FA77)
Also on the slim version there is no front thread on the so you cannot re-mount the hood for the FA43, DA70 (& i guess DA21, DA40??)

Notice how with the hood extended the rim of the filter is only just on the edge of the hood in the corners, so there wouldnt be any worse vignetting from the rim edge of the filter.
The angle of view of a DA15 is 86degrees on the diagonal and looking at the geometry of the rim it would appear that light rays would be blocked by the top edge of the rim before the smallest internal diameter of the filter frame. ie: the internal ring of the filter (where the text is printed) will not be a problem.
Practically it is really not an issue anyway because on a sunny day with a CPL most likely you'll be on f8 - f11 not wide open.
Check out photozone.de to see the vignetting at f4 without a filter !

I bought my B&W filters from B&H or Adorama (now 75 USD for the 49mm MRC CPL). In Australia they are about A$125 !!. (mainlinephoto.com.au, dirtcheapcameras.com.au, photo-shop-studio.com) . Vanbar also list some B+W filters confusingly cheap, might want to ask them.

Hoya filters are everywhere in stores here comparable to US prices.
I've never had any Marumi filters but you can get them from photovideo.com.au in Canberra. (about $80)

(just a tip) A friend bought a few Hoya Pro-1D cpl for his (Canon) lenses and hates them. The ultra-slim rings are really hard to mount & remove and the outer glass surface is "rough" so they are a bastard to clean marks off.

I'd recommend the B+W but I notice also the Marumi DHG Super is highly rated by that lenstip.com review.
http://www.lenstip.com/115.4-article-Polarizing_filters_test_Results_and_summary.html

steve1307 · 09-28-2011, 08:13 AM

A little more info on the colour cast which is prevalent with the 10-stop ND's B+W, Hoya and Lee. Generally easy to correct in LR or PS.

from a discussion in DA15 controls my mind thread.

by twitch:
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/1582550-post2508.html
B+W #110 3.0 10stop - reddish brown

by digitalis
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/1590594-post2610.html
Hoya ND400 2.7 9stop - green/yellow
Lee Big Stopper 4"x4" - blue

**ManuH** · 09-28-2011, 09:03 AM

I don't have issues with the slim polarizers from Marumi or Hoya/Kenko Pro 1D. But I guess they are probably not as slims as the B+W.

(BTW it's true of the Pro 1D, they are VERY HARD to clean).

For autoexposure with black glass, I've found that liveview is better. AF is tricky, but you can manual focus in liveview relatively easily in daylight. At night, the only way to work is to do your AF/AE without the black glass, and then put back the ND when you're ready to shoot.

I didn't check how many real stops there are with the B+W 3.0, it's supposed to be 10 stops. I'll test it.

DogLover · 09-28-2011, 10:13 AM

Originally posted by catastrophe

So the CPL should be this one?
Marumi DHG Super 49mm Circular PL D Polarizer Filter | eBay

it says Special slim frame to eliminate vignetting when used with wide angle lenses

Just need to confirm it doesn't interfere with the hood as some claim 'slim' filters do.

Deciding between these NDs now...any difference between those 2 Marumis? The B+W also is a single coated, is that ok? Other noob question, can you adjust the f stop on these filters?

49mm MARUMI ND8 Filter Neutral Density JAPAN 49 | eBay

MARUMI 49mm DHG LIGHT CONTROL 8 - Neutral Density 0.9 | eBay

Hoya HMC 49mm ND-400 (Multi-Coated) Neutral Density | eBay

B+W ND 1000x 110 3.0 Neutral Density Coated Filter 49mm | eBay

You can get that B&W ND3.0 a lot cheaper on amazon ($42). Marumi filters are generally quite good and their Super DHG line is excellent. Shame they don't make any S-DHG's in ND filters. I buy Marumis whenever possible because after having had a number of the "top" brands, they seem to offer the best bang for the buck.

**ManuH** · 09-28-2011, 12:26 PM

Originally posted by DogLover

You can get that B&W ND3.0 a lot cheaper on amazon ($42).

This is not very clear but on B&H there is apparently two versions of the B+W, one that is said single coated and cheaper and the other one that is said multicoated. Usually B+W add MRC to the name when it's multicoated. In any case $42 is cheaper than both versions sold at B&H. MaxSaver.net is also selling it for 35$ but it's a special order.

DogLover · 09-28-2011, 01:52 PM

Originally posted by ManuH

This is not very clear but on B&H there is apparently two versions of the B+W, one that is said single coated and cheaper and the other one that is said multicoated. Usually B+W add MRC to the name when it's multicoated. In any case $42 is cheaper than both versions sold at B&H. MaxSaver.net is also selling it for 35$ but it's a special order.

Yes, I'm looking at one of these on my desk right now and it is the single-coated. I agree that MRC would be on it if it was multi-coated. Still, that is a lot cheaper than I've seen the MRC anywhere. Mine was actually free, but that was a fluke thing and a long story. I'm hoping that single-coated will end up being OK on a black glass filter. If not, I'm not out anything.

**ManuH** · 09-28-2011, 02:24 PM

Originally posted by DogLover

Yes, I'm looking at one of these on my desk right now and it is the single-coated. I agree that MRC would be on it if it was multi-coated. Still, that is a lot cheaper than I've seen the MRC anywhere. Mine was actually free, but that was a fluke thing and a long story. I'm hoping that single-coated will end up being OK on a black glass filter. If not, I'm not out anything.

I checked mine, it's written MRC. AFAIK it's only affecting possible flare reflections in contra light situations.

DogLover · 09-28-2011, 04:10 PM

Originally posted by ManuH

I checked mine, it's written MRC. AFAIK it's only affecting possible flare reflections in contra light situations.

Great news! I asked twitch what version he has and it's the single-coated. With the stunners he produces with it, I'm not going to worry about it. Not that I will be able to replicate his talent, by any means, but at least his filter isn't holding him back.

catastrophe · 09-28-2011, 06:34 PM

What is the main difference between the single coat and multicoat versions?

B+W 49mm #110 Solid Neutral Density (ND) 3.0 66-1066178 B&H

B+W 49mm #110 Solid Neutral Density (ND) 3.0-1000x 65-1066169

About to make the purchase soon but need to decide which one to choose and most importantly, that it is NOT the slim one so that it's compatible with the 15mm. b+w should be better than the Hoya ND400 right?

Btw, just bought the Marumi super DHG CPL, looking forward to it!

DogLover · 09-28-2011, 06:49 PM

Originally posted by catastrophe

What is the main difference between the single coat and multicoat versions?

B+W 49mm #110 Solid Neutral Density (ND) 3.0 66-1066178 B&H

B+W 49mm #110 Solid Neutral Density (ND) 3.0-1000x 65-1066169

About to make the purchase soon but need to decide which one to choose and most importantly, that it is NOT the slim one so that it's compatible with the 15mm. b+w should be better than the Hoya ND400 right?

Btw, just bought the Marumi super DHG CPL, looking forward to it!

The main difference? $14. Seriously, though, the multi-coated should be more resistant to flare and reflections. but if twitch can get the shots he does with a single-coated, it can't be too bad. Again, though, the single-coated is on amazon for $42. Don't worry about the slim versions of the NDs, it's only the slim B&W CPL (AFAIK) that won't work on the 15.

**ManuH** · 09-28-2011, 06:54 PM

Originally posted by catastrophe

What is the main difference between the single coat and multicoat versions?

From their "overview":

"Single coating also has certain anti-reflective properties that help prevent against ghosting and internal flaring."

"The Multi-Resistant Coating (MRC) is harder than traditional B+W glass. This helps prevent scratches as well as being water and dirt repellent. "

So the difference is not as I suspected a matter of flare resistance.

If price is no objection I'd get the MRC. But it's 70$ at B&H. That's the one I got and used for this picture taken with the DA 15mm. The non-MRC is cheaper, 42$ at Amazon (but they don't ship internationally), 35$ at Maxsaver.net: I bought many Kenko/Hoya Pro 1D over there so I can recommend them and they also have an ebay outlet although I don't remember which name it is.

DogLover · 09-28-2011, 07:42 PM

Originally posted by ManuH

From their "overview":

"Single coating also has certain anti-reflective properties that help prevent against ghosting and internal flaring."

"The Multi-Resistant Coating (MRC) is harder than traditional B+W glass. This helps prevent scratches as well as being water and dirt repellent. "

So the difference is not as I suspected a matter of flare resistance.

Huh. Well, now I feel even better about having "only" the single-coated. I'd made the same assumptions as you. Thanks for posting that.

TOUGEFC · 09-29-2011, 12:09 AM

Mine is only the single coated version too

steve1307 · 09-29-2011, 05:17 AM

This is just a test shot wi th the Hoya ND400, DA15 (cropped) , 30sec colour jpeg straight out of the camera, while a little cool, my eyes dont see a noticeable (green) colour cast.

.

Simon's shot of the Windmill is also with DA15, better composed, about 3minute exposure, with post processing of course which he seems to excel at.

09-28-2011, 07:45 AM	#47
steve1307 Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Sydney Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,130	Originally posted by catastrophe hmm, I have heard not to get a thin one for the 15mm. Anyone kind enough to post what filters they use for their CPL and ND and where to get them? I live in Australia. There's a few different versions of the Marumi CPL. I'll be using the filters on a 35mm f2.4 too. Well I use B&W CPL and ND8 (3stop) filters (the MRC versions) The only "black glass" I have is the Hoya ND400 9stop - but really its onl y about 8 1/3" stop as I mention above. This is the Hoya ND400 and the B&W CPL on a DA15. two things: The ND400 really is very dark even in the full size shot you can barely see the outline if my fingers behind it. AF is impossible, not usually an issue with a DA15 as everything from 4ft to infinty is usually in focus anyway. Matrix metering is not reliable at all. I've found that center or spot is not bad for an approximate if the light is good but really manual metering is the way to go. B&W CPL This photo is the 49mm Regular sized filter not the slim one. The slim version of the B&W does not fit under the sliding hood (ditto for the DA35, and also i guess the FA77) Also on the slim version there is no front thread on the so you cannot re-mount the hood for the FA43, DA70 (& i guess DA21, DA40??) Notice how with the hood extended the rim of the filter is only just on the edge of the hood in the corners, so there wouldnt be any worse vignetting from the rim edge of the filter. The angle of view of a DA15 is 86degrees on the diagonal and looking at the geometry of the rim it would appear that light rays would be blocked by the top edge of the rim before the smallest internal diameter of the filter frame. ie: the internal ring of the filter (where the text is printed) will not be a problem. Practically it is really not an issue anyway because on a sunny day with a CPL most likely you'll be on f8 - f11 not wide open. Check out photozone.de to see the vignetting at f4 without a filter ! I bought my B&W filters from B&H or Adorama (now 75 USD for the 49mm MRC CPL). In Australia they are about A$125 !!. (mainlinephoto.com.au, dirtcheapcameras.com.au, photo-shop-studio.com) . Vanbar also list some B+W filters confusingly cheap, might want to ask them. Hoya filters are everywhere in stores here comparable to US prices. I've never had any Marumi filters but you can get them from photovideo.com.au in Canberra. (about $80) (just a tip) A friend bought a few Hoya Pro-1D cpl for his (Canon) lenses and hates them. The ultra-slim rings are really hard to mount & remove and the outer glass surface is "rough" so they are a bastard to clean marks off. I'd recommend the B+W but I notice also the Marumi DHG Super is highly rated by that lenstip.com review. http://www.lenstip.com/115.4-article-Polarizing_filters_test_Results_and_summary.html Last edited by steve1307; 09-28-2011 at 08:14 AM.

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09-28-2011, 07:11 AM	#46
catastrophe Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Photos: Gallery Posts: 232 Original Poster	Staff note: This post may contain affiliate links, which means Pentax Forums may earn a small commission if a visitor clicks through and makes a purchase. If you would like to support the forum directly, you may also make a donation here. So the CPL should be this one? Marumi DHG Super 49mm Circular PL D Polarizer Filter \| eBay it says Special slim frame to eliminate vignetting when used with wide angle lenses Just need to confirm it doesn't interfere with the hood as some claim 'slim' filters do. Deciding between these NDs now...any difference between those 2 Marumis? The B+W also is a single coated, is that ok? Other noob question, can you adjust the f stop on these filters? 49mm MARUMI ND8 Filter Neutral Density JAPAN 49 \| eBay MARUMI 49mm DHG LIGHT CONTROL 8 - Neutral Density 0.9 \| eBay Hoya HMC 49mm ND-400 (Multi-Coated) Neutral Density \| eBay B+W ND 1000x 110 3.0 Neutral Density Coated Filter 49mm \| eBay

09-28-2011, 08:13 AM	#48
steve1307 Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Sydney Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,130	A little more info on the colour cast which is prevalent with the 10-stop ND's B+W, Hoya and Lee. Generally easy to correct in LR or PS. from a discussion in DA15 controls my mind thread. by twitch: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/1582550-post2508.html B+W #110 3.0 10stop - reddish brown by digitalis https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/1590594-post2610.html Hoya ND400 2.7 9stop - green/yellow Lee Big Stopper 4"x4" - blue

09-28-2011, 09:03 AM	#49
ManuH Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Montreal Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,249	I don't have issues with the slim polarizers from Marumi or Hoya/Kenko Pro 1D. But I guess they are probably not as slims as the B+W. (BTW it's true of the Pro 1D, they are VERY HARD to clean). For autoexposure with black glass, I've found that liveview is better. AF is tricky, but you can manual focus in liveview relatively easily in daylight. At night, the only way to work is to do your AF/AE without the black glass, and then put back the ND when you're ready to shoot. I didn't check how many real stops there are with the B+W 3.0, it's supposed to be 10 stops. I'll test it.

09-28-2011, 10:13 AM	#50
DogLover Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 2,054	Originally posted by catastrophe So the CPL should be this one? Marumi DHG Super 49mm Circular PL D Polarizer Filter \| eBay it says Special slim frame to eliminate vignetting when used with wide angle lenses Just need to confirm it doesn't interfere with the hood as some claim 'slim' filters do. Deciding between these NDs now...any difference between those 2 Marumis? The B+W also is a single coated, is that ok? Other noob question, can you adjust the f stop on these filters? 49mm MARUMI ND8 Filter Neutral Density JAPAN 49 \| eBay MARUMI 49mm DHG LIGHT CONTROL 8 - Neutral Density 0.9 \| eBay Hoya HMC 49mm ND-400 (Multi-Coated) Neutral Density \| eBay B+W ND 1000x 110 3.0 Neutral Density Coated Filter 49mm \| eBay You can get that B&W ND3.0 a lot cheaper on amazon ($42). Marumi filters are generally quite good and their Super DHG line is excellent. Shame they don't make any S-DHG's in ND filters. I buy Marumis whenever possible because after having had a number of the "top" brands, they seem to offer the best bang for the buck.

09-28-2011, 12:26 PM	#51
ManuH Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Montreal Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,249	Originally posted by DogLover You can get that B&W ND3.0 a lot cheaper on amazon ($42). This is not very clear but on B&H there is apparently two versions of the B+W, one that is said single coated and cheaper and the other one that is said multicoated. Usually B+W add MRC to the name when it's multicoated. In any case $42 is cheaper than both versions sold at B&H. MaxSaver.net is also selling it for 35$ but it's a special order.

09-28-2011, 01:52 PM	#52
DogLover Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 2,054	Originally posted by ManuH This is not very clear but on B&H there is apparently two versions of the B+W, one that is said single coated and cheaper and the other one that is said multicoated. Usually B+W add MRC to the name when it's multicoated. In any case $42 is cheaper than both versions sold at B&H. MaxSaver.net is also selling it for 35$ but it's a special order. Yes, I'm looking at one of these on my desk right now and it is the single-coated. I agree that MRC would be on it if it was multi-coated. Still, that is a lot cheaper than I've seen the MRC anywhere. Mine was actually free, but that was a fluke thing and a long story. I'm hoping that single-coated will end up being OK on a black glass filter. If not, I'm not out anything.

09-28-2011, 02:24 PM	#53
ManuH Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Montreal Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,249	Originally posted by DogLover Yes, I'm looking at one of these on my desk right now and it is the single-coated. I agree that MRC would be on it if it was multi-coated. Still, that is a lot cheaper than I've seen the MRC anywhere. Mine was actually free, but that was a fluke thing and a long story. I'm hoping that single-coated will end up being OK on a black glass filter. If not, I'm not out anything. I checked mine, it's written MRC. AFAIK it's only affecting possible flare reflections in contra light situations.

09-28-2011, 04:10 PM	#54
DogLover Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 2,054	Originally posted by ManuH I checked mine, it's written MRC. AFAIK it's only affecting possible flare reflections in contra light situations. Great news! I asked twitch what version he has and it's the single-coated. With the stunners he produces with it, I'm not going to worry about it. Not that I will be able to replicate his talent, by any means, but at least his filter isn't holding him back.

09-28-2011, 06:34 PM	#55
catastrophe Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Photos: Gallery Posts: 232 Original Poster	What is the main difference between the single coat and multicoat versions? B+W 49mm #110 Solid Neutral Density (ND) 3.0 66-1066178 B&H B+W 49mm #110 Solid Neutral Density (ND) 3.0-1000x 65-1066169 About to make the purchase soon but need to decide which one to choose and most importantly, that it is NOT the slim one so that it's compatible with the 15mm. b+w should be better than the Hoya ND400 right? Btw, just bought the Marumi super DHG CPL, looking forward to it!

09-28-2011, 06:49 PM	#56
DogLover Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 2,054	Originally posted by catastrophe What is the main difference between the single coat and multicoat versions? B+W 49mm #110 Solid Neutral Density (ND) 3.0 66-1066178 B&H B+W 49mm #110 Solid Neutral Density (ND) 3.0-1000x 65-1066169 About to make the purchase soon but need to decide which one to choose and most importantly, that it is NOT the slim one so that it's compatible with the 15mm. b+w should be better than the Hoya ND400 right? Btw, just bought the Marumi super DHG CPL, looking forward to it! The main difference? $14. Seriously, though, the multi-coated should be more resistant to flare and reflections. but if twitch can get the shots he does with a single-coated, it can't be too bad. Again, though, the single-coated is on amazon for $42. Don't worry about the slim versions of the NDs, it's only the slim B&W CPL (AFAIK) that won't work on the 15.

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09-28-2011, 06:54 PM	#57
ManuH Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Montreal Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,249	Originally posted by catastrophe What is the main difference between the single coat and multicoat versions? From their "overview": "Single coating also has certain anti-reflective properties that help prevent against ghosting and internal flaring." "The Multi-Resistant Coating (MRC) is harder than traditional B+W glass. This helps prevent scratches as well as being water and dirt repellent. " So the difference is not as I suspected a matter of flare resistance. If price is no objection I'd get the MRC. But it's 70$ at B&H. That's the one I got and used for this picture taken with the DA 15mm. The non-MRC is cheaper, 42$ at Amazon (but they don't ship internationally), 35$ at Maxsaver.net: I bought many Kenko/Hoya Pro 1D over there so I can recommend them and they also have an ebay outlet although I don't remember which name it is.

09-28-2011, 07:42 PM	#58
DogLover Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 2,054	Originally posted by ManuH From their "overview": "Single coating also has certain anti-reflective properties that help prevent against ghosting and internal flaring." "The Multi-Resistant Coating (MRC) is harder than traditional B+W glass. This helps prevent scratches as well as being water and dirt repellent. " So the difference is not as I suspected a matter of flare resistance. Huh. Well, now I feel even better about having "only" the single-coated. I'd made the same assumptions as you. Thanks for posting that.

09-29-2011, 12:09 AM	#59
TOUGEFC Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Brisbane Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,561	Mine is only the single coated version too

09-29-2011, 05:17 AM	#60
steve1307 Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Sydney Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,130	This is just a test shot wi th the Hoya ND400, DA15 (cropped) , 30sec colour jpeg straight out of the camera, while a little cool, my eyes dont see a noticeable (green) colour cast. . Simon's shot of the Windmill is also with DA15, better composed, about 3minute exposure, with post processing of course which he seems to excel at.