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10-27-2011, 12:27 AM   #181
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QuoteOriginally posted by wolfiegirl Quote
Thanks for the heads up. I don't think I even read the description. All I would've seen was the price - over $100 and dismissed it. I've got a $50 limit set on all lenses I buy. (This doesn't include group buys, where I'll go over as long as the avg price per lens drops to below $50). See? I'm disciplined! gawd....
Well, that's too bad. If you are that inflexible about the price you are willing to pay, you will mostly be playing with endless variations of the most widely sold focal length lenses of the era (28, 35, 50, 28-80 slow zooms etc). 50.00 for a dedicated macro lens, I don't think even Rio has found one yet. I don't know how much macro you want to do but RioRico's cheap macro setups with reversing rings, bellows and extension tubes are really not for someone trying macro for the first time. It is time consuming to set up, it is completely manual and with bellows and extension tubes you are going to be focusing through a very dim viewfinder. Plus you will need a tripod and a focusing rail to focus since the focus ring on the lens is mostly useless at macro distances, you may try it a few times but I doubt you will stay with it very long because your posts seem to indicate that you like your automatic features very much so.

If you are looking for a definitive sharp lens with a great colour fidelity, that's cheap, look for a Jupiter 37A 135/3.5 (Soviet copy of the Zeiss Sonnar 135). They are quite plentiful (there are about 50 listings at any given time on eBay) at around 50.00 level. I bought my two copies from fellow PF members (Jupiter 37A, 37A MC) and only reason I would part with them would to replace them with copies in better cosmetic condition.


Last edited by excanonfd; 10-27-2011 at 12:57 AM. Reason: spelling
10-27-2011, 12:36 AM   #182
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My Jupiter 37A went to the bay, but then I have a Sonnar, a Tair 11a, Meyer Optik 135 f2.8, both f3.5 and f2.5 SMC Takumar 135s and I rarely use that focal length.
10-27-2011, 12:58 AM   #183
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QuoteOriginally posted by xjjohnno Quote
but then I have a ... Tair 11a
Could I get your opinion on this lens? The samples I've seen from it look wonderful, with bokeh that has a lot of character, and I know the lens has a kickass iris. I'm seriously thinking about picking one up, probably as my next lens purchase, so any first hand accounts of it would be really helpful to me.
10-27-2011, 03:38 AM   #184
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QuoteOriginally posted by excanonfd Quote
Thanks Rio, it would be good to see some images out of the Betavaron, seems to be quite the unique lens. I see one on eBay for 125.00 but with slight haze in the rear element (not that I am looking for one). I might have tried to acquire the one above if I was still mired in LB fever, but since I already have 3 Componon-S enlarger lenses (50/2.8, 80/4.0 and 135/5.6) from my darkroom days, another one (however unique it may be) would be a bit too much, even for me.
No, avoid rear-element mungs. Yes, I'll try to get some shots up. And I can tell you that the Betavaron is totally unlike any of my 30 other ELs. The objective (not the thread) is 62mm diameter. For general usage it doesn't need bellows, just ~33mm extension. It's just the most different lens I have.

QuoteOriginally posted by excanonfd Quote
Well, that's too bad. If you are that inflexible about the price you are willing to pay, you will mostly be playing with endless variations of the most widely sold focal length lenses of the era (28, 35, 50, 28-80 slow zooms etc). 50.00 for a dedicated macro lens, I don't think even Rio has found one yet.
HA! My Vivitar-Komine 90/2.8 (1:1) was US$3, as part of a lucky eBay lot. My slightly battered Macro-Takumar 50/4 (1:1) was US$55 shipped from the bay. Both are M42. And my Kilfitt Makro Kilar E 40/3.5 (1:2) in Exakta mount was US$36 at an antique shop a couple months ago. Yes, more convenient lenses will cost more. Yes, I'm lucky, and persistent (one leads to the other). All I can say is, Seek and ye shall have a chance of finding.

QuoteQuote:
I don't know how much macro you want to do but RioRico's cheap macro setups with reversing rings, bellows and extension tubes are really not for someone trying macro for the first time. It is time consuming to set up, it is completely manual and with bellows and extension tubes you are going to be focusing through a very dim viewfinder. Plus you will need a tripod and a focusing rail to focus since the focus ring on the lens is mostly useless at macro distances,
Well, I use 90-190mm ELs on my lightweight M42 Bellowscope handheld for general shooting, with tubes added for elbow-room macros, and 50-110mm ELs handheld (usually on tubes) for close but non-critical shooting. Yes, precise work demands precise setup. Critical work with a dedicated lens requires 'podding and careful setup too. A bellows just means that the focusing mechanism is modular, movable between lenses, not built into a single lens. The Bellowscope+90mm.EL+20mm.tubes setup weighs rather less than the Komine 90/2.8 and focuses rather more quickly.

I'm not trying to be argumentative. I just don't encounter painful obstacles when shooting macros with the gear I mention. I can shoot easily, or painstakingly, as the situation calls for. Whatever.


Last edited by RioRico; 10-27-2011 at 12:22 PM.
10-27-2011, 04:23 AM - 1 Like   #185
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A good copy of the Tair 11A is pure yum, sharpness, colour rendition, yum, bokeh, drool. A must have and seriously superior to the Jupiters, some would disagree, but they leave the Sonnars and Meyer derivatives as also rans in that focal range.
A personal opinion and don't expect to see mine on Ebay unless I'm due for eviction, a highly unlikely situation.
10-27-2011, 11:03 AM   #186
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QuoteOriginally posted by RioRico Quote

HA! My Vivitar-Komine 90/2.8 (1:1) was US$3, as part of a lucky eBay lot. My slightly battered Macro-Takumar 50/4 (1:1) was US$55 shipped from the bay. Both are M42. And my Kilfitt Makro Kilar E 40/3.5 (1:2) in Exakta mount was US$36 at an antique shop a couple months ago. Yes, more convenient lenses will cost more. Yes, I'm lucky, and persistent (one leads to the other). All I can say is, Seek and ye have a chance of finding.
I stand corrected. Your Vivitar-Komine 90/2.8, I'll give you $12.00 for it, more than double of your average profit margin!

QuoteQuote:
Well, I use 90-190mm ELs on my lightweight M42 Bellowscope handheld for general shooting, with tubes added for elbow-room macros, and 50-110mm ELs handheld (usually on tubes) for close but non-critical shooting. Yes, precise work demands precise setup. Critical work with a dedicated lens requires 'podding and careful setup too. A bellows just means that the focusing mechanism is modular, movable between lenses, not built into a single lens. The Bellowscope+90mm.EL+20mm.tubes setup weighs rather less than the Komine 90/2.8 and focuses rather more quickly.

I'm not trying to be argumentative. I just don't encounter painful obstacles when shooting macros with the gear I mention. I can shoot easily, or painstakingly, as the situation calls for. Whatever.
If you already have your bellows set up with the lens and extension tubes attached then I'd say the set up time would be nearly the same as mounting a macro lens to the body. But I don't have that kind of space, my bellows sits in it's case collapsed, in the closet and each time I use it, it is a deliberate act and the set up process can be a pita. For field work, one macro lens is a lot more easier to manage than a bellows set up, plus I can go beyond life size with the Vivitar AT-23 extension tubes, and retain the AE function while doing so. Hell of a lot more compact gear to carry around while walking about in the field.

I understand what you are getting at, once you get used to it the setting up bellows can become quite routine. I tell myself to get rid of the Pentax A Bellows but since I can't bring myself to part with the Schneider ELs, I'll have to make the effort to pull the bellows out of the closet more often.
10-27-2011, 12:22 PM   #187
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QuoteOriginally posted by excanonfd Quote
I stand corrected. Your Vivitar-Komine 90/2.8, I'll give you $12.00 for it, more than double of your average profit margin!
Pay in 1870 gold dollars and you've got a deal!

QuoteQuote:
I understand what you are getting at, once you get used to it the setting up bellows can become quite routine. I tell myself to get rid of the Pentax A Bellows but since I can't bring myself to part with the Schneider ELs, I'll have to make the effort to pull the bellows out of the closet more often.
Maybe you have heavy full-featured bellows. My compact M42 Bellowscope weighs 230g. With the (hooded) Novoflex Noflexar 105/3.5 mounted, it's all just 370g and not much bulkier than a Tak-B 135/3.5 (same weight), quite easy to toss into my bag. Setup: Screw lens onto Bellowscope. Screw wide-flange M42-PK adapter onto bellows. Mount bellows on K20D. Stand there looking cute; when something moves, I shoot. No big thang.

NOTE: That setup goes to about 1:2 magnificaton. For 1:1 I'll use a Rodenstock or Schneider 75/4.5, or add 50mm of tubes to the Noflexar rig. And of course I can hang all sorts of other lenses and optical materials on the belows. Fun fun fun.
10-27-2011, 01:25 PM   #188
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Ya, my LBA thang is all messed up... Cant say no to cheap stuff.
I think i got the fujinon 55/3.5 macro in m42, with belonging tube to get 1:1.
I think i got the soligor 105/2.8 in m42 with *10* blades, also with belonging TC.
And some weird fujinon x adapter. Until they arrive, i am still not sure if they are not in M44 mount.
these are well hidden in the webjungle.
The smc M 20/4 just came through the door. It also invites its other relatives 28/2.8, 50/1.7, 50/2, 135/3.5, but also friends like soligor zoom f5.6... sigma zoom f3.5...
The party is just begin...

10-27-2011, 03:29 PM   #189
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QuoteOriginally posted by hoanpham Quote
Ya, my LBA thang is all messed up... Cant say no to cheap stuff.
I think i got the fujinon 55/3.5 macro in m42, with belonging tube to get 1:1.
I think i got the soligor 105/2.8 in m42 with *10* blades, also with belonging TC.
And some weird fujinon x adapter. Until they arrive, i am still not sure if they are not in M44 mount.
these are well hidden in the webjungle.
The smc M 20/4 just came through the door. It also invites its other relatives 28/2.8, 50/1.7, 50/2, 135/3.5, but also friends like soligor zoom f5.6... sigma zoom f3.5...
The party is just begin...
Thank god you're in it as deep as me, hoanpham! We can party togegther!

I caved yesterday and forked out the big bucks for the macro. My first 3 figure purchase!!!

So those of you who were pimping it - it's time to go and collect your commission

I was hoping that buying what I originally set out to buy would CURB the LBA. I have now modified all my ebay searches to stay below a limit, which means anything above that I won't know about. THEREFORE I won't go looking... least that's the plan anyway

And no, that DOESN'T mean that I won't be trying out all the other macro ideas (extension tubes, bellows, reverse lens) etc. They're not all going to arrive at once (or at least they shouldn't) so I'll have time to spend on each purchase as they come. I'm also interested in seeing the different results all these options provide.

At the moment despite being covered in lenses, I'm still only maybe really enjoying my M 1.4 and 1.7. All the others are either M42 mounts (and I'm still waiting on the adapter) or covered in fungus/not that happy with results. I'm back on the fence re the Pentax F Zoom 28-80. My plan is to give it a shot on a reverse ring before I give up altogether. And I now need to get rid of my two sigma 18-50s. That will help make my bank balance look slightly less sickly.

Oh! And my Pentax 135 Preset lens arrived yesterday - again full of fungus. *sigh* Going to leave it out in the sun for a while until my M42 adapter arrives. Rico assures me that the lens should still function, and really the fungus isn't as coated as it was on the Tokina 80-200. More fine webbing on both sides of the lenses and some white and brown specks about 2mm or so. Am toying with the idea of making a ruckus. I paid $47.60 for it shipped. But it's a preset, and the seller only gave basic info on the lens (no mention of fungus etc). Then again I didn't ask either. I just bid. I might just suck this one up. mebbe. Gonna go off and reread about presets.

Hey Hoanpham, what's this about a fujinon adapter? Or do I not want to know?

Last edited by wolfiegirl; 10-27-2011 at 03:43 PM.
10-27-2011, 03:59 PM   #190
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FWIW, if I bought any lens from anywhere, ebay, here, whatever, and it had undeclared fungus I would be mightily pissed. There's no excuse for not disclosing the condition of a product if it's less than optimal. I'd give any seller the chance to make it right, but failing that, it's a case of filing a "not as described" and sending pics of it to PayPal (in the case of Ebay, anyway).

However, I'm not surprised that you're running into so many damaged lenses, if you're snapping up the bottom of the barrel priced ones. If a lens normally goes for about $100 (just an example) and you pick it up for $20, it's very likely there's a reason for that. That doesn't mean one should tolerate poor descriptions though.

Edit: @xjjohnno - thanks so much. That lens is definitely at the top of my list now. I have a really good feeling about it.
10-27-2011, 04:12 PM   #191
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Yeah I was pretty peeved yesterday. I've slept on it and Rico's reassured me a little (I badgered him first coz he was the one who egged me on to buy this one LOL), but I'm still undecided. Since Rico reckons that the lens is still ok to use and a preset is supposedly a good lens I'm not 100% comfortable with returning it either. AND it would be returned at my expense (just had a look at his return policy).

There were 3 other buyers interested in this one, so it wasn't like no one was interested, but, *sigh*

The plus side Philoslothical is that these bad lenses are outweighed by 3 minty Taks - a 1.8/55, a 3.5/35 and a makinon 28-80 for under $100 delivered. So you win some, you lose some.

I may write the guy anyway to voice my disappointment about the fungus and point out I wouldn't have bid as high on it, but really, don't know what that will gain. Depends on how hard nosed the seller is.
10-27-2011, 08:32 PM   #192
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Ok, so I want your opinion!

I ended up contacting the guy and he has come back and he's happy to refund me the lens and if I'm reading this correctly the postage costs as well.

Here are my options:

Option 1: I can agree and clarify that he will refund me the return postage. That would be the easy option.

Option 2: Keep the lens and suggest a partial refund for the amount of shipping plus my original bid?

Reading the lens review: Takumar/Auto-Takumar 135mm F3.5 Reviews - M42 Screwmount Telephoto Primes - Pentax Lens Reviews & Lens Database it does sound like a good lens. I've got it sitting in the sun at the moment so I should be able to kill those specks dead (if they aren't already) but I think the fungi carcasses remain? I can't test the lens yet to see what images result (still waiting on that dratted adapter!!!) and he's got a 7 day policy written on his listing. I did do an initial bid of $12 before I upped it (thinking that it was a clear lens).

Should I just return the dratted thing and wait for another preset in better condition to fall into my hands?

What would you guys do?
10-27-2011, 08:53 PM   #193
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If you can get all of your money back, go for it and look for another lens in a better condition. If you don't see the seller mentioning fungus in his description, ask the seller to clarify. If the fungus has etched into the coating, no amount of sunlight can fix that. Better to start anew.

Edit: What did you end up buying with your first 3 digit purchase?

Last edited by excanonfd; 10-27-2011 at 09:05 PM. Reason: question
10-27-2011, 09:19 PM   #194
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QuoteOriginally posted by wolfiegirl Quote
What would you guys do?
I would return that one if you can. I have one of these (technically for sale but too late for that I guess) and it is a very cool looking lens. Presets are interesting but I think for daily use, I'd get a Pentax-M 135/3.5 or even a Super-Takumar. They have two advantages: a shorter minimum focus distance (1.5m vs. 2m) and 49mm filter size. The preset I have takes 46mm filters, an oddball for me. The M version has SMC coatings, is very small and has a slideout hood. Many photos of the lens are here, but also some sample photos I took with it.

https://picasaweb.google.com/Just1MoreDave/TakumarPreset135mmF35?authuser=0&feat=directlink
10-27-2011, 09:35 PM   #195
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Ok, thanks for the advice guys. Have replied and waiting for his answer.

Ah, the joys of buying ebay.

You selling the same lens eh dave? *slaps self* I mean, oh, that's interesting.

ETA: ah, just found the listing and dangnabbit it's a good price. *steels self to be strong*

Last edited by wolfiegirl; 10-27-2011 at 09:45 PM.
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