Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
11-15-2011, 01:26 AM   #376
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 1,421
QuoteOriginally posted by hoanpham Quote
Thanks excanonfd, i may contact you later regarding the mod of canon f to pentax k ;-)
3mm differ in register distance is a lot.
Do i Need for a 200mm macro? Not really, i have 5 macros already, and shoot with flash at f16-22-32. The tamron sp 90 with tc x2 gives a great working distance. If some one can sell her/his gear for a higher price, i wont be in the way...
No one really needs a long macro, I could have done without but getting that extra reach opens up a lot of shooting opportunities with the ring flash. I don't have a Pentax p-ttl ring flash and I am not going to get one. I could do just as well with an older ttl or auto thrystor ring flash for a lot less and put the money towards another lens. The downside of no p-ttl, is that you can forget about shooting wide open (or anywhere near wide open) at 1:1 magnification even if the flash is set to the lowest power level with a typical 100mm or shorter macro lenses. 200mm lens changes that scenario quite drastically; I can shoot in single digit aperture size at 1:1 macro and pulling back to about 1:5 ~ 1:10 I can shoot wide open. With the extra reach, I can attempt some multi flash configurations with pseudo macro range, which cannot be done all that easily when your front element is mere inches away from the subject.

5 macros, you mean I am not the only schmuck who collects macro lenses? What'cha got hoan?

11-15-2011, 01:51 AM   #377
Pentaxian
wolfiegirl's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Outside of Canberra, Australia
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 4,010
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by magkelly Quote
When I started using an SLR I got iso and aperture pretty quickly but even now I still mess up with shutter speed sometimes, that after a lengthy internship. Stick with it because that's a perfectly normal thing to do. Brian Peterson's books did help me a lot with that but it's mainly been just a question of trial, error and tons of practice. I suppose one of these days I will take having to set all that for granted but so far that's not been the case. I really do have to stop and think about it a lot. I'm a lot better than I was, for sure, but even though I've been properly trained it's still not the easiest thing for me sometimes. I envy my teachers all their experience and time in the field. It always looks so easy when they do it. ;P
I get it now, but it took me a while to figure out aperture. In the manual all they use as an example is a picture with a blurry or non blurry background. I get that. Sounds simple right? But there's no talk of stops or open or closing of aperture, or why a 1.7 stop means I can take photos in low light, but not at 4.5...... ack!

In terms of shutter speed, I've learnt that if I turn the dial to the right, the big numbers (1,000, 4,000 etc) means that the image gets darker and I have a higher chance of taking a photo where the object is moving (eg my wolfies). The lower the number (0.3 etc) the longer the shutter stays open, bringing in more light, therefore taking longer to take the picture and more chance of a blurry wolfie.

ISO also makes sense to me now too. I think it hit me when I was trying to take a pic of my wolfies playing in twighlight and kept getting dark blurry shots. No dice. I had already made a point of moving the aperture to smaller stops (numbers) and a fast (1,000, 4,000 etc) shutter speed. So the only thing left was for me to go and up the ISO in order to get the camera to pick up more light.

I know there's a magical balance which wiz was trying to explain to me. The one move here equals two stops down or whatever, but it's a bit too intricate for me to comprehend at the moment. So much of photography for me is trial/error and luck. But that's half the fun right? I appreciate that every new thing I learn means that I get one step closer to getting the picture I want in a shorter amount of time than just fumbling with buttons, and I'm getting there - promise! It just takes a while for everything to seep into my thick skull.

I think the biggest beef I had with the manual and a lot of the sites I looked and read was that they were all written with photography speak. I'm a visual person, and wanted concrete examples to illustrate each point. Like, a real life scenario with pictures showing what would happen at each shot with different shutter speeds etc.

In some ways I still sometimes fell like I"m half working in the dark, but I definitely think I've got a better understanding now than when I started.

Last edited by wolfiegirl; 11-15-2011 at 02:01 AM.
11-15-2011, 02:30 AM   #378
Veteran Member
RioRico's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Limbo, California
Posts: 11,264
If I may intrude and post a brag-list of 'macro-oid' lenses -- following is my odd assortment, excluding most of those labeled 'macro-zoom':

* Access AMC Macro WA (Tokina?) 28/2.8 -- front element extends to 1:1.37, CFD= 11cm
* Vivitar-Komine 28/2 CFWA (close focus wide angle), not quite as close, CFD= 17cm
* Kilfitt Makro Kilar E 40/3.5 -- one of the first 35mm macro lenses, 1:2, CFD= 10cm
* Macro-Takumar 50/4 -- tank-like build, real macro, 1:1 version, CFD= 6cm
* Vivitar-Kiron 90/2.8 macro -- seen in other brands, 1:1 mag, CFD= 10cm

I've had (and sold) a couple others like the Access, with extensible front elements:

* Kalimar Auto Macro 28/2.8 -- and -- Sears 135/2.8 -- I'm not sure of CFDs

And then there are some weird and obscure and stretching-the-definition cases:

* Sakar 500/8 mirror -- CFD= 1.7m giving 1:2.7 which is pretty damn close to macro
* Rubinar Makpo 1000/10 mirror -- CFD= 1.5m which puts it under 1:1.5, close enough
* SMC A35-80/4-5.6 -- reversed, this becomes a sharp macro-zoom with CFD= ~3.5-15cm
* Schneider Betavaron 50-125/4-5.6 -- this enlarger zoom on tubes becomes a macro-zoom!

With more money, I'd accumulate other "real macro" lenses too. I need another big fat juicy inheritance. C'mon somebody, die already.

Last edited by RioRico; 11-15-2011 at 03:20 AM.
11-15-2011, 03:09 AM   #379
Pentaxian
wolfiegirl's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Outside of Canberra, Australia
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 4,010
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by RioRico Quote
With more money, I'd accumulate other "real macro" lenses too. I need another big fat juicy inheritance. C'mon somebody, die already.




Interesting list Rico! *adds them to my 'to try' list* I have NONE of those....

11-15-2011, 03:38 AM   #380
Veteran Member
RioRico's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Limbo, California
Posts: 11,264
QuoteOriginally posted by wolfiegirl Quote
Interesting list Rico! *adds them to my 'to try' list* I have NONE of those....
The MacTak 50/4 (1x) and Komine 90/2.8 (in various brands) are fairly common. The A35-80 plus 49mm-PK mount-reversal ring are dirt cheap. A 500/8 mirror with CFD= 1.5m isn't hard to find; neither are Vivitar 28mm CFWDs (Komine and Kiron). The rest may be elusive. Chasing chuckwallas is easier than finding some of those.

Most of those were pretty cheap. Even the non-dirt-cheap ones were decent deals: the MacTak50 for US$55, the Betavaron for US$70 (marked down from US$3500), the Rubinar for US$225. Some of the others were outright steals: the Kilfitt for US$35, the Komine CFWA for US$18, the Sakar for US$13, the Kiron90 for US$3, etc.

My faves of the lot? The MacTak50 for working close; the Kiron90 for working not-quite-so-close; and the Schenider Betavaron for working anywhere. An inside source tells me that I'll receive a focusing helicoid for Xmas, so the Betavaron will break free from its chains and fly like an eagle or something like that. C'mon Santa, give it up!

Last edited by RioRico; 11-16-2011 at 01:28 AM.
11-15-2011, 03:49 AM   #381
Pentaxian
hoanpham's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Strand
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 1,360
QuoteOriginally posted by excanonfd Quote
I am not the only schmuck who collects macro lenses? What'cha got hoan?
The funny thing is that I am not really in to macro... yet. I told myself that macro lenses/bellow/stuff should be the last thing i get. I never bid a single macro. The only i have is M50/4 as my second purchase 30 years ago. these i have now came with different lots, and because the price was so attractive that i cannot say no. macros are safe bets that they should be the last thing in a lens lot i am worry about. Also they serve as dual purpose: portrait and macro, and easily became favorite.

May be not bugs i am shooting, but fluid dynamics and/or high speed photography should be my next area(s) to explore with macro lenses... I am fully agree that 5 macros might not be sufficient, still missing longer than 105 range...

and RioRico,
thanks for the advices regarding macro options. yah these are things i would like to play with ;-)
11-15-2011, 05:28 AM   #382
Site Supporter
rbefly's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Denver, Colorado
Photos: Albums
Posts: 2,030
Depth Of Field

Hello Wolfiegirl and Magkelly,
For anyone having a hard time with f-stop, shutter speed and (ultimately) ISO, here's a good visual comparison for you.
It might be called a Depth Of Field Primer;
Pentax-DA* 200mm F2.8 ED [IF] SDM Reviews - DA Prime Lenses - Pentax Lens Reviews & Lens Database
If the link doesn't work, it's in the Lens Reviews here, Pentax Primes, DA* 200mm f2.8. Scroll to the 4th post, by Matjazz.
Notice that the reviewer has taken the exact same shot several times at different f-stops. These are all FULL STOPS, but most lenses have a 1/2 stop increment between each full stop. These are commonly called "Click-stops" as opposed to full stops.
In the first photo (f2.8) the lens is wide open and has the LEAST dof (depth of field). Only the logs are in sharp focus, the twisted shape on the left is blurry, the white and red flowers are just colored shapes and the house rooftop is completely out-of-focus.
F4.0- Now we see a bit more detail behind the logs. The twisted shape has a little more detail and the colored shapes MIGHT be flowers. The rooftop is a little sharper. Since the lens has been closed 1 full stop, it lets in exactly 1/2 as much light, so it must be left open for a longer time. Although we don't know the shutter speed, let's say the first photo was taken at 1/500 second. That means THIS photo would have to be opened twice as long, 1/250s, to yield the same exposure.
F5.6- Again we close the aperture a full stop, reducing the amount of light by 1/2. So the time that the light has to have, to reach the sensor (or film) must be INCREASED to twice as long to achieve the same exposure. In that case the shutter speed must be twice as long as 1/250, so it would be 1/125s. But you can easily see the result; More in-focus objects.
F8.0- Again, 1 full stop "down". Again we must give the light more time, twice as much time to compensate for 1/2 the AMOUNT of light. 1/60s (approx.). But much more background detail.
And so on for f11.0 (1/30s shutter speed, f16.0 ( 1/15s) and so on.
But by f16.0, the flowers are nearly in sharp focus, the rooftop had clear definition and the twisted shape now appears to be an upside-down tree trunk.
But if we couldn't decrease the shutter speed each time (say, we're hand-holding the lens and would suffer camera shake at low shutter speeds, or, the object was moving and would be blurry becauce of movement), we could then increase the ISO one full stop each time (ISO 100 to 200, 200 to 400, etc.) but would increase "Noise" or grain.
Hope this helps!
Ron
11-15-2011, 09:42 PM   #383
Pentaxian
wolfiegirl's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Outside of Canberra, Australia
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 4,010
Original Poster
Hey Ron,

Thanks for the linky. Yeah, I did something similar when I was trying to work out DOF. Instead of a lovely woodsy scene, I took pics of a cup on my messy coffee table.

In other news, am staying strong on the LBA front. Haven't made any more purchases despite checking ebay daily. I'm finding some of the 'challenges' in the forum are helping me keep my mind off things...

Oh, that and there's a car boot sale on this weekend and I have all these fantasies of coming across a big box of camera stuff for $10 from a farmer type.... In my dreams right?


Last edited by wolfiegirl; 11-15-2011 at 10:13 PM.
11-16-2011, 12:40 AM   #384
Veteran Member
jolepp's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Finland
Photos: Albums
Posts: 3,196
QuoteOriginally posted by wolfiegirl Quote
...
Oh, that and there's a car boot sale on this weekend and I have all these fantasies of coming across a big box of camera stuff for $10 from a farmer type.... In my dreams right?
Bagging the game is not all there is to hunting?
11-16-2011, 01:34 AM   #385
Veteran Member
magkelly's Avatar

Join Date: May 2010
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 5,905
Yet another "tips" page added to my TPF binder. You know one of these days I'm going to go ask Adam and Co if I can use all these tips and actually write a book called "5000 Nifty Things I Learned About Photography Via The Pentax Forum." At the rate I am going I'm beginning to think I could. LOL

Thanks!

QuoteOriginally posted by rbefly Quote
Hello Wolfiegirl and Magkelly,
For anyone having a hard time with f-stop, shutter speed and (ultimately) ISO, here's a good visual comparison for you.
It might be called a Depth Of Field Primer;
Pentax-DA* 200mm F2.8 ED [IF] SDM Reviews - DA Prime Lenses - Pentax Lens Reviews & Lens Database
If the link doesn't work, it's in the Lens Reviews here, Pentax Primes, DA* 200mm f2.8. Scroll to the 4th post, by Matjazz.
Notice that the reviewer has taken the exact same shot several times at different f-stops. These are all FULL STOPS, but most lenses have a 1/2 stop increment between each full stop. These are commonly called "Click-stops" as opposed to full stops.
In the first photo (f2.8) the lens is wide open and has the LEAST dof (depth of field). Only the logs are in sharp focus, the twisted shape on the left is blurry, the white and red flowers are just colored shapes and the house rooftop is completely out-of-focus.
F4.0- Now we see a bit more detail behind the logs. The twisted shape has a little more detail and the colored shapes MIGHT be flowers. The rooftop is a little sharper. Since the lens has been closed 1 full stop, it lets in exactly 1/2 as much light, so it must be left open for a longer time. Although we don't know the shutter speed, let's say the first photo was taken at 1/500 second. That means THIS photo would have to be opened twice as long, 1/250s, to yield the same exposure.
F5.6- Again we close the aperture a full stop, reducing the amount of light by 1/2. So the time that the light has to have, to reach the sensor (or film) must be INCREASED to twice as long to achieve the same exposure. In that case the shutter speed must be twice as long as 1/250, so it would be 1/125s. But you can easily see the result; More in-focus objects.
F8.0- Again, 1 full stop "down". Again we must give the light more time, twice as much time to compensate for 1/2 the AMOUNT of light. 1/60s (approx.). But much more background detail.
And so on for f11.0 (1/30s shutter speed, f16.0 ( 1/15s) and so on.
But by f16.0, the flowers are nearly in sharp focus, the rooftop had clear definition and the twisted shape now appears to be an upside-down tree trunk.
But if we couldn't decrease the shutter speed each time (say, we're hand-holding the lens and would suffer camera shake at low shutter speeds, or, the object was moving and would be blurry becauce of movement), we could then increase the ISO one full stop each time (ISO 100 to 200, 200 to 400, etc.) but would increase "Noise" or grain.
Hope this helps!
Ron
11-16-2011, 01:37 AM   #386
Veteran Member
magkelly's Avatar

Join Date: May 2010
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 5,905
QuoteOriginally posted by wolfiegirl Quote
Oh, that and there's a car boot sale on this weekend and I have all these fantasies of coming across a big box of camera stuff for $10 from a farmer type.... In my dreams right?
We have what they call flea markets here but I've heard some amazing things on the doll boards about those boot sales. I have a feeling if I ever got over to the UK or down there I'd end up spending all my souvenir money on old dolls and old camera gear. I might manage a museum or two, but I think I'd spend most of my time traveling from boot sale to boot sale just to see what I might spot. Sounds like more fun than the legit tourist attractions...
11-16-2011, 02:15 AM   #387
Loyal Site Supporter
wizofoz's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Melbourne, Outer east.
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 1,646
QuoteOriginally posted by magkelly Quote
We have what they call flea markets here but I've heard some amazing things on the doll boards about those boot sales.
You 'Merkan's' woulkd call them 'car trunk' sales

Speaking of other news.. my shiney (almost) new DA* 60-250 arrived this afternoon. Is it seemly for a middle aged man to squeal like a schoolgilr? OMG this thing is so, like, awsomeness! I think I'm in LURVE.
11-16-2011, 02:20 AM   #388
Pentaxian
wolfiegirl's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Outside of Canberra, Australia
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 4,010
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by wizofoz Quote
You 'Merkan's' woulkd call them 'car trunk' sales

Speaking of other news.. my shiney (almost) new DA* 60-250 arrived this afternoon. Is it seemly for a middle aged man to squeal like a schoolgirl? OMG this thing is so, like, awsomeness! I think I'm in LURVE.


The image of a middle aged man squealing like a schoolgirl has me in stitches.



As to the car boot sale and the hunt - obviously for $10 I'd receive a couple of FA lenses, a 1.2, a 100mm Pentax Macro in mint condition, and and and, oh, some carl zeiss lenses and godknowswhat...

I have never managed to find any 'spectacular' scores at car boot sales and garage sales. I've had a few good buys, but nothing I could write home about and make squillions on. Half the time I just enjoy going to see what's out there

In reality I'm probably hoping the local nursery guy will be there so I can buy more seedlings for the veggie garden.
11-16-2011, 02:53 AM   #389
Pentaxian
hoanpham's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Strand
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 1,360
QuoteOriginally posted by wolfiegirl Quote
As to the car boot sale and the hunt - obviously for $10 I'd receive a couple of FA lenses, a 1.2, a 100mm Pentax Macro in mint condition, and and and, oh, some carl zeiss lenses and godknowswhat...
I am happily pay 10$ each, FA50/1.4, FA35/2, 50/1.2, CZ85/1.4, CZ300/4.... oh someone borrow me 20$, the total price is 120$, all I have is 102.23$... or I can buy a coffe to the seller for 2.23$ and get the whole bunch for what I have? why a such deal never happen to me?
11-16-2011, 03:15 AM   #390
Pentaxian
wolfiegirl's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Outside of Canberra, Australia
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 4,010
Original Poster
hehehe, that's a good suggestion hoanpham! "I'll buy you a coffee and give you the rest?" *snicker* what a great bargaining line!
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
bid, bit, camera, freebie, fungus, k-mount, k100d, lens, lenses, macro, pentax, pentax lens, slr lens
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
K-7 froze in video mode, now messed up dedmozaj Troubleshooting and Beginner Help 4 05-18-2011 04:26 PM
WR100mm review messed up mtroute Site Suggestions and Help 5 03-14-2011 03:24 PM
Bh messed up my order again!! Nubi General Talk 3 04-27-2010 09:59 PM
I may have messed up my K-x, please help Wcox Pentax DSLR Discussion 9 04-17-2010 01:40 PM
I messed up with LR Alfisti Digital Processing, Software, and Printing 8 01-07-2010 10:43 AM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:06 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top