[RioRico]

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The problem is, after you've used the money toward a newer and better camera body, you still want fast lenses. By that time, fast lenses will be even more expensive.

You never win!

Quite right. I don't care if you've got ISO-100K going, you'll STILL want a 50/1.2 or 85/1.4 because nothing else produces images like them. And good glass ain't getting any cheaper. Increasing dSLR and MILC sales are driving up demand and prices. The best camera STILL works best with good glass on it. (As used by competent toggers, of course.)

Possible exception: Cameramakers will continue to upgrade the electronics and software, with more AI built into cameras. AI'bots will be able to play all sorts of tricks with the optics to alter sharpness, contrast, DOF. Now, we use fast+longish lenses on miniature-format (APS and FF) frames for DOF control. We use premium glass for clarity and pop. But a smart processor diddling with the RAW files will be able to mimic those qualities. We aren't there yet -- unless that's Canon's big surprise November announcement. But it's coming. Be prepared. The future is almost yesterday already.

[excanonfd]

Thanks a bunch for the recommendation on the tamron. Seems there is an auto focus version too (one recently sold for 150$). I would have to save up a bit for that so I'll look into them more. I have shot with ones that were 35mm on the low end and while a little wider would be nice, they were good enough.

As far as a little slower, I have a few that would match/beat 3.5 constant and many more that are a little slower so that wouldn't help. on a 35-70mm 2.8-3.8 is was barely fast enough wide at 2.8 to use iso 800 but on the middle and longer end it was just too slow. iso 1600 on my camera starts to get pretty bad.

I've read that 65A was one of the first Adaptall-2 lenses that was adapted to AF but I have never seen one yet. The sold one on eBay was a Nikon mount but still, that's one hell of price for a lens of this calibre. There is one 65A lens with BIN price of 199.00 and BO option, perhaps you may want to place an offer for it; Tamron SP MF 35-105mm F2.8 Lens /Adaptable 2 Mount System | eBay

Tamron had an even better SP Adaptall-2 lens; 176A 28-105/2.8 but this one is big, heavy and even more expensive. This and another one or two Tamron SP Adaptall-2 lenses is on my wish list (within reason).

[Chex]

Not kidding, no joke, but I haven't tried it. Yet. I read about this re: astrophotography not long ago, even posted an inquiry here for details but didn't get much help. I think it's called a focus expander or something like that. It's used to turn long slow telescopes into shorter faster ones. I do recall that placement is critical. Probably so critical that if it was easy, everyone would be doing it. I'll let y'all be the lab rats on this one.

I'll post before and after shots

As for cheap f2.8.. I don't think you can beat this one on fleabay
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Tamron-SP-Aspherical-35-mm-105-mm-F-2-8-manual-focus-...#ht_500wt_1287

just pick up a PK or PKA adapter and your laughing.

[neil]

Find yourself a Pentax-A 35-105mm f3.5. It's a half stop slower but the image qualities are wonderful considering the price it goes for ($100-$150).

Sent from my Atrix®

[ripit]

The problem is, after you've used the money toward a newer and better camera body, you still want fast lenses. By that time, fast lenses will be even more expensive.

You never win!

Three years ago, I never thought of spending $500+ for a lens (it's not because I couldn't afford them), but now....

I don't use primes often enough to have a burning desire for a 50mm 1.4/1.2 though if I ever ran across a really hot deal on one and had the money, I would probably jump on it. 1.7 is actually fast enough for me plus I already own it and its cheap to get another. Seems lots of 1.4's have gone for 50$ or even a little less though. Assuming the m42 pentax 1.4 are good, I might get one eventually although it will probably be more of an LBA thing than a strong desire for a 1.4.

Now if there were an 18-105mm 2.0, that might be a lens I would drop some serious change for if I could ever actually afford it (even if I had a better camera body). Until the kids get a bit older and the wife goes back to work, or I trade her in for a model that does work, its el cheapo eaby used MF glass for me. Luckily I bought a handful of auto focus lenses while she was still working. Better yet, maybe I could trade her for the lens, LOL. Anyone want to trade a slightly used wife for an 18-105mm 2.0?

Fyi, lba and the fact the I have bought between 30-40 slr lenses since the beginning of the year have nothing to do with the fact that I can not afford an expensive lens (easier to blame the wife than lba because I don't have lba, seriously). All kidding aside, I would rather have 40 lenses for 500$ than 1. I wouldn't have had a clue what lenses would be worth spending 500$ on before them. Using all the different lenses has given me endless valuable information on what expensive lens I might actually get a lot of use out of. I probably would have spent it on something that went really wide, maybe even a prime, as its what many recommend (and I don't use) rather than something with some zoom range and fast. The more I shoot, the more I learn what configuration of lenses work well for me and would actually get used. How many posts do you see asking what zoom range/prime focal length and speed to buy? I'm on my way to knowing solid and first hand what to buy. There were some real gems in all those lenses too. The lba has slowed (anything I can get cheap is a duplicate of something I already own), so now I have a better fighting chance to save for better lenses. While I'm saving, I can continue to gain experience with what I have.

I don't know what possessed me to make my latest purchase though (even if it was only 6$ plus shipping). Its a vivitar 28-70mm 3.5-4.8 AF (you know, the kind with the af completely built into the lens). Whats worse, its canon mount and has corroded battery contacts (may not work). That should be a fun project to repair and convert (NOT!!).

Thanks to all the wonderful advice here too, I now have something new to desire and not be able to afford (its the kind of thing I might actually try hard to save for though). Have you seen the pentax 1.7x teleconverter (the one that converts MF lenses to AF lenses because the AF is built into the teleconverter)? You guys are a bad influence.....I could see it overtaking my desire fast lens (bad idea, I know, MF often works better except for faced paced shooting).

[ripit]

I'll post before and after shots

As for cheap f2.8.. I don't think you can beat this one on fleabay
Tamron SP Aspherical 35 mm - 105 mm F/2.8 manual focus lens - Canon FD | eBay

just pick up a PK or PKA adapter and your laughing.

Well see how much it actually sells for, lol. I have seen 10$ lenses turn into several hundred dollar lenses in the last few minutes. I'll be watching it though.

I think I'm going to give the teleconverter idea a go too. There is no idea too stupid or futile for me to try, lol. Teleconverters can have as many elements as a prime though, so I think I'm going to do some research first. If nothing else, find out how many elements are in mine (I have a quantaray or a vivitar I would be willing to sacrifice trying).

[SpecialK]

Perhaps this thread will give you a starting point. Cheap constant 2.8, not likely.

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/lens-clubs/79149-cheap-auto-focus-28ish-8...lens-club.html

[ripit]

I went out shooting today and am starting to wonder if 2.8 would cut it anyway. I may have to learn to do it with fast 50mm primes. A lot of my shooting today was with a new 28mm 2.8 I just got. I also brought a 35-70mm 2.5-3.5 (also new and first time shooting with it), a 35-70mm 2.8 constant, and a 35-200mm. The 35-70mm 2.8 constant I have is damaged but I can still shoot with it. You have to grip the lens firmly in both hands and put a little muscle into it to make it zoom. It won't focus to infinity right now either but I can fix that.

Looking at exif, most shots were 1/20th-1/30 sec at iso 800 and that's not going to cut it hand held shooting moving targets. That includes a lot of shots with the 28mm 2.8 and I only shot wide open on all lenses all day. Iso 800 looks grainy and iso 1600 really starts to look bad on my camera. I'll probably keep casualty looking for one (lba and all) but I think I might take another run at it with some fast primes.

Thanks again for all the advice!!!

[dms]

Coincidence--I responded to your other post. Anyway I am also looking for f2.8: 28 or 35 to about 80 mm zoom for theatre. Currently I am using an FA 28-70 f4 and I find it too slow, and soft at f/4-5.6 (and cannot stand the build!). The VS1 35-85mm is also what I thought was the only viable one. As I recall Roger Hicks spoke highly of it--as do others. Also mentioned in lens books as landmark design. I just am worried it will not be sharp by f/4 (I usually shoot 1 stop down from open)--what is your take on this?

[ripit]

According to the one review here (with sample pics), its soft wide open but sharpens right up at 4.0. It is much worse on the wide end and almost gone at the long end.
Vivitar Series 1 35-85mm F2.8 Lens Reviews - Vivitar Lenses - Pentax Lens Review Database
He mentions a scratch on one of the inside elements though. How do you get a scratch on the inside glass unless the lens has been taken apart and worked on. I have a sigma 28-200mm with similar behavior that had fungus cleaned off an element. It's bad wide angle and wide open but stop down or zoom and it goes away.
Another possibility is that there is some sample variation with this one and it depends on how good of a copy you get. I have read up on it some and it seems plenty say its great and others say its just good (haven't heard anyone call it bad with the review here being about the worst I have heard someone speak of it). I have seen a few say its sharp end to end wide open, while others say it has some issues (always seems to be wide angle, wide open if someone says there is an issue).
My overall impression is that its a good lens but it may not be quite as good as some of the really hot shot series 1 lenses. I suspect there may also be some very good copies out there that are better than the rest. I am still considering one but will also look into the tamron. It would seem that based on todays shooting it won't work so well for what ; intended it for, but it still seems like it would be a very useful lens for me (the vivitar or the tamron). If you don,t mind stopping down to f4, I think the vs1 might be even more suitable for you than me as I would want even faster that 2.8 if I could get it and f4 won't cut it for me. If there is an issue where you have to stop down to f4, I suspect it will be on the wide end. The tamron might be worth looking into also as it seems to be well spoken of in this thread. I havent had a chance to look into it yet myself though.

[RioRico]

If you still want fast & wide, consider either Vivitar 24/2. I have the Kiron version in PKM mount and it's quite good. It should be within your budget.

Equally fast but longer and just about perfect to me is my great Vivitar-Komine 28/2 CFWA (close focus wide angle); mine was quite cheap.

To go faster in that neighborhood means a Sigma 30/1.4 but that's way beyond budget. To go faster affordably means a manual 50/1.4.

[ripit]

If you still want fast & wide, consider either Vivitar 24/2. I have the Kiron version in PKM mount and it's quite good. It should be within your budget.

Equally fast but longer and just about perfect to me is my great Vivitar-Komine 28/2 CFWA (close focus wide angle); mine was quite cheap.

To go faster in that neighborhood means a Sigma 30/1.4 but that's way beyond budget. To go faster affordably means a manual 50/1.4.

Thanks. I shot a lot with a 28mm 2.8 and it seemed like the focal distance might be usable if I carried a longer lens too so maybe a 28mm 2.0 would work along with a 50mm. I have a feeling I won't ever be buying any 1.4 lenses unless I score a real deal (which could happen the way I bargain hunt). Its just not worth the high price over something a little slower for 1/5-1/10 the price. I do have a ricoh 50mm 2.0 that is the sharpest lens I own so maybe I'll give it a try with that. I also have a 50mm 1.7 (sears if I recall right) that is good and my fastest, but I wouldn't want to leave the ricoh out due to image quality.

[RioRico]

Thanks. I shot a lot with a 28mm 2.8 and it seemed like the focal distance might be usable if I carried a longer lens too so maybe a 28mm 2.0 would work along with a 50mm. I have a feeling I won't ever be buying any 1.4 lenses unless I score a real deal (which could happen the way I bargain hunt). Its just not worth the high price over something a little slower for 1/5-1/10 the price. I do have a ricoh 50mm 2.0 that is the sharpest lens I own so maybe I'll give it a try with that. I also have a 50mm 1.7 (sears if I recall right) that is good and my fastest, but I wouldn't want to leave the ricoh out due to image quality.

Shall I brag? My SuperTak 50/1.4 was US$55 shipped -- not minty, the front ring was loose and I glued it into place, all is fine now. My planar Yashica ML 50/1.4 was US$10 shipped -- C/Y mount, easily modded for PK. My M42 Sears-Tomioka 55/1.2 was US$2.25 shipped -- actually, that was my second and I sold it for US$36; my first cost US$24 shipped. That great Vivitar-Komine 28/2 CFWA that I mentioned, that cost US$18 shipped? It's Nikon mount, also easily modded for PK.

My point being, that by trolling eBay patiently, good fast glass can still be found at good prices. It may not be in PK mount, but Nikon, OM, C/Y, and Exakta mount lenses are very easily modded, and usually cheaper. My Nikkor-O 35/2 (US$48 shipped) is just a gem, and a photojournalist's workhorse, nothing sharper. The great OM 50/1.8 was US$15. Et cetera.

The Rikenon 50/2 *is* damn sharp. I rate it with the M50/1.7, and SuperTak and Petri CC 55/1.8's. But a 50-55/1.4 just can get shots no other lens can. I'm going today on a scenic drive of some mountain towns under cloud cover, and the Tomioka 55/1.4 is my Lens-Of-The-Day, ready for anything.

[ripit]

Shall I brag?

You seem to get a little bit better deals than I seem to find though I have gotten some good ones. Here is one for you to be jealous of though. I won a vivitar (bokina) 90mm 2.5 fd mount last night for 38$ + 7$ shipping. Assuming it arrives in good condition I'll probably just sell it for at least 3-4 times what I paid. I just don't have any use for such a nice macro lens. It was listed as a vivitar 55mm canon lens (no where in the listing did it say 90mm 2.5 but the pics were obvious).

Here are a few of my better scores though. The ricoh rikenon 50mm 2.0 was about 7$ shipped. I got a vivitar series 1 ver 2 70-200mm in very nice condition for 15$ shipped, minolta mount (conversion went quite smoothly and it gives m42 type operation). I got a vivitar 35-200mm 3-4.5 in excellent condition for 5.50$ shipped (quite fast for a super zoom and nice image quality). I got a vivitar 28-210mm (cosina I think) in pristine condition (also minolta and already converted) for 5$ plus shipping (can not recall how much shipping but I think it was cheap). I must have gotten a very good copy on that one as it takes very nice pics.
More recently (just buying junk I didn't need), was the atena rokunar 28mm 2.8 for 13.50 shipped in good condition with a bunch of filters. The hoya 55mm hmc nd2 and nd4 are worth that much so the lens as well as the hoya and kalt macro lens sets were basically freebies (as were the color filters I have no use for). There was also a five star 75-200mm (seems the standard impression of this lens is it is surprisingly good for such a cheap brand) for 8$ shipped. It was basically a freebie too though as the hoya hmc uv is worth that much and that is what I really wanted.

I think the reason I haven't scored many good prime deals in a while is I'm not looking (I prefer zooms). I did pass on a spotmatic with a 50mm 1.4 for 80$ locally (I would have tried to talk the shop down but I was broke).
You can not win them all though. I got a pentax program plus with a five star lens for 99 cents plus 10$ shipping a few days ago that looked like it was dug up in the back yard. I am not exaggerating at all. There is no way it could have gotten in such horrible condition without being buried for a couple of years. The amount of dried mud inside the lens (which was broken in half and missing internal parts) would seem to support that theory. The lens and camera was jammed in a small flat rate box with no padding.

What was your worst score?

[DaveHolmes]

If you can do without quality, here's an experiment to try: Get a DA18-55/3.5-5.6 kit lens. Get a cheap used A-type 2x TC. Remove the element from the TC and re-install it REVERSED! Your TC is now a 0.5x WC, a wide-converter. The kit lens becomes a 9-28mm f/1.7-2.8 zoom! WOW! The trick is to get the TC/WC element placed exactly right. Good luck.

Don't suppose you have a list of possible TCs and a detailed guide on how to do this do you RioRico???