What is your "negotiation technique" when buying old lenses?

wolfiegirl · 10-22-2011, 05:02 PM

Yup re the Buyer's Protection. I didn't realise I could claim a "item not as described' and get ebay to refund me the $$ without question though! That's a new one! Although I'm sure it'd peeve off a lot of sellers. LOL.

I want to keep my 100% feedback and I figure it's always more polite to contact them first. I made a point of being factual and not emotional when I explained what the problem was and she seemed fairly reasonable, despite a few hiccups. LOL. I only really get mad when they ignore me. That's when I pull out the big guns. *wicked laugh*

ripit · 10-22-2011, 06:05 PM

Originally posted by wolfiegirl

With the current 10 lenses sitting around the house I've started getting a better picture of what I do and don't need.

Same here though I have probably 40 new lenses to play with to get an idea of what I like/use (50 if you count the hand full of auto focus lenses I have had for a much longer time). My several month out of control LBA is dieing off to a point as I am getting a much better picture of what I need and use (and in a lot of cases its something I already have). Outside of ebay I live in a really bad area for getting lenses (nearest camera shop is 30 miles away and doesn't carry much), not too many decent thrift shops or other sources either. I have gotten much pickier what I try to get as I have so many and have a better idea of what I want.

Considering everything is twice the price there (or so I hear), it doesn't sound like you are doing too bad.

A couple of warnings about ebay. In many cases, buyer protection will require you to send the item back at your expense (probably less of an issue as you are paying more for the actual item price). They do give full refund including the original shipping you paid though. If the seller refuses return even in the dispute or other extreme circumstances, I have heard of ebay refunding with out requiring return but it not the most common. I good seller will pay return shipping if its there mistake though so hopefully you wont have to use it. Also, if you do a lot of selling, beware getting another ebayer too angry in a dispute. Its not unheard for one to buy from you to retaliate and leave bad feedback (if you can prove it you can get it removed). Many sellers use different ebay id's for buying and selling. Here at least you are allowed to have several ebay id's.

xjjohnno · 10-23-2011, 02:45 AM

Sellers can't leave negative feedback these days. They can leave comments though.
Best option is negotiating with the seller though and settling the matter amicably but you're minus the shipping cost if you send the lens back. I do remember buying a SMC Takumar 1000mm f8 lens on the bay that had the internals of a mushroom farm, sold as only a dirty front element and won a refund. He must have been seriously cheesed off to see the postage price on the otem as the silly sod had sent it courier.
Still better to have a tiny loss versus what I would have incurred trying to get it properly sorted.

photocanadian · 10-23-2011, 03:22 AM

Here is another dirty eBay trick: sellers can't leave negative or neutral feedback (and trust me, as a seller I am not happy about this one).

You have nothing to worry about.

EDIT: I got beat to it

Originally posted by wolfiegirl

Yup re the Buyer's Protection. I didn't realise I could claim a "item not as described' and get ebay to refund me the $$ without question though! That's a new one! Although I'm sure it'd peeve off a lot of sellers. LOL.

I want to keep my 100% feedback and I figure it's always more polite to contact them first. I made a point of being factual and not emotional when I explained what the problem was and she seemed fairly reasonable, despite a few hiccups. LOL. I only really get mad when they ignore me. That's when I pull out the big guns. *wicked laugh*

**Clinton** · 10-23-2011, 08:01 AM

Originally posted by wolfiegirl

Yup re the Buyer's Protection. I didn't realise I could claim a "item not as described' and get ebay to refund me the $$ without question though! That's a new one! Although I'm sure it'd peeve off a lot of sellers. LOL.

I want to keep my 100% feedback and I figure it's always more polite to contact them first. I made a point of being factual and not emotional when I explained what the problem was and she seemed fairly reasonable, despite a few hiccups. LOL. I only really get mad when they ignore me. That's when I pull out the big guns. *wicked laugh*

Interestingly enough ebay will sometimes refund you without charging the seller, when the amount is low enough.

Ebay has figured out how much cash is simply not worth their time to get involved in.

**Clinton** · 10-23-2011, 08:05 AM

Originally posted by vw_michael

Here is another dirty eBay trick: sellers can't leave negative or neutral feedback (and trust me, as a seller I am not happy about this one).

Woah, since when?

ripit · 10-23-2011, 08:29 AM

Originally posted by vw_michael

Here is another dirty eBay trick: sellers can't leave negative or neutral feedback (and trust me, as a seller I am not happy about this one).

You have nothing to worry about.

EDIT: I got beat to it

Things were worse off when sellers could leave negative feedback as there were many more corrupt sellers and nothing to stop them. You basically had to have got burned bad enough to be willing to accept bad feedback yourself if you were going to leave it. Mutual withdraws were a lot more common, sellers had much less incentive to make things right if they made a mistake, and bad sellers would not have bad ratings. You were gambeling on getting robbed every time you bought. I certainly see where it is causing problems now though as the current system leaves corrupt buyers open to extort or even rip off sellers. A little negative feedback can be very damaging to a seller (not only from the standpoint of looking safe to a buyer but ebay takes heavy action against sellers for it or low dsr's). Ultimately ebay needs to hire competent people and take a proper roll in disputes, as well as seller and buyer protection. That would cost ebay more money though which is probably why it won't happen weather its a good idea or not. I don't think reinstating bad seller feedback alone would fix anything. It would just shift power from fraudulent buyers to fraudulent sellers.

I defiantly see your point as a seller. I recently won a vivitar 90mm 1.5 bokina for 45$ (if anyone is not familiar with it, it is worth and sells for many times more than that). I will most likely sell it but I highly doubt I will sell it on ebay. Its too valuable of an item and the risk of getting ripped off is too high. I'll probably try local consignment or craigslist or something (maybe the market place though I have no feedback here). Something else needs to be in place to manage things or neither feedback system will work, but the easiest solutions would cost ebay money.

I think for now sellers are just going to have to accept its a walmart style market place. Buyers have to accept returns for any reason, even if the buyer trashed it, and a limited amount of fraud against the sellers is allowed to keep customer satisfaction across the board higher (yes I think ebay trys to keep fraud against sellers limited instead of trying to eliminate it). I work in retail and we are sometimes made to take back returns that everyone involved knows is fraudulent to keep from angering customers. High volume sellers can probably build the costs into their selling price but its a fatal system for the small sellers that originally built ebay.

Regardless, I have 102 won auctions in the last 60 days (probably more in the 60 days before that as I have been doing early Christmas shopping for the kids to avoid being to broke to do it at the last minute, and some lba too). I would not have made the majority of those purchases if the old feedback system had still been in place. I would probably feel the other way if I made my living as a seller but untill/unless ebay takes a better approach to managing problems, someone is going to get screwed occasionally. With the current system, the balance is shifted towards the seller being the one that gets hit.

wolfiegirl · 10-23-2011, 03:29 PM

I was also unaware of the non negative feedback for sellers. very interesting reading rip it. i've been thinking about it overnight and i still believe a good seller is one who is willing to pay the return costs on an item when the buyer is unhappy. i just think it builds trust and goodwill. if the customer isn't happy you would theoretically argue it's because the seller did not list the item as described or some such. having said that i'm not really complaining about how my own transaction went. i'm just saying is all.

Originally posted by ripit

Regardless, I have 102 won auctions in the last 60 days (probably more in the 60 days before that as I have been doing early Christmas shopping for the kids to avoid being to broke to do it at the last minute, and some lba too).

Geez ripit - have you been the one outbidding me all the time??? I lost out on a pentax macro this morning. it sold for $80 give or take shipped. having said that my max bid was only $25...

(I was hoping no one else had noticed the listing

)

ripit · 10-23-2011, 04:26 PM

Originally posted by wolfiegirl

i've been thinking about it overnight and i still believe a good seller is one who is willing to pay the return costs on an item when the buyer is unhappy. i just think it builds trust and goodwill.

In general you would think the item was not as described if the buyer is unhappy. After all, if they bought it you would think they wanted it. I can see a few instances where it might not be warranted. A piece of clothing didn't fit but the size was correct in the listing. The item was correct and in the condition the seller described it but the buyer didn't like it. With lenses, performance could be an issue. I have had a few that were in nice condition and as described but they just were not great performers. If the item is not as described, misrepresented, or even not in as good of condition as the listing implied, I would think the seller should pay return shipping. The buyer shouldn't be out any money if the problem was the sellers fault. Ebay will not ever require a seller to pay return shipping but a good seller will be willing to if the issue is their fault, even if it was accidental.

Originally posted by wolfiegirl

Geez ripit - have you been the one outbidding me all the time??? I lost out on a pentax macro this morning. it sold for $80 give or take shipped. having said that my max bid was only $25... (I was hoping no one else had noticed the listing )

I only bid on lenses located in the US (shipping usually kills the deal otherwise) but I often wonder how often I am bidding against others here. I doubt I am outbidding anyone in most cases as I usually bid very low. The only recent exception was a macro lens. I wasn't even looking for one but when I stumbled on a 200$ lens for 10$ with a poor description, I'm like, yea, I think I'll setup a snipe for 15$ hoping nobody else notices it. Towards the end, bidding went up to maybe 30$ (can not recall exactly). I'm like, what the heck, and set up a snipe for 41.26$. I just knew bidding was going to go over 100$ and thought I had no chance of winning it. I won it for 38$. I bet the person I just outbid was pretty mad (especially if he knew what the lens actually was). Thats what they get for bidding early and giving away their hand. Had the bidding not gone up early, I would have left my snipe at 15$.
I usually loose on the I hope nobody else notices it gamble but if you bid low often enough, eventually you will win a few.

wolfiegirl · 10-23-2011, 04:34 PM

Originally posted by ripit

In general you would think the item was not as described if the buyer is unhappy. After all, if they bought it you would think they wanted it. I can see a few instances where it might not be warranted. A piece of clothing didn't fit but the size was correct in the listing. The item was correct and in the condition the seller described it but the buyer didn't like it. With lenses, performance could be an issue. I have had a few that were in nice condition and as described but they just were not great performers. If the item is not as described, misrepresented, or even not in as good of condition as the listing implied, I would think the seller should pay return shipping. The buyer shouldn't be out any money if the problem was the sellers fault. Ebay will not ever require a seller to pay return shipping but a good seller will be willing to if the issue is their fault, even if it was accidental.

I absolutely agree with you ripit. Why would the buyer be unhappy unless the seller listed it incorrectly? It's the buyer's job description to provide as much accurate info as possible. Otherwise you reap what you sow. Anyway, that's just my 2c worth.

Originally posted by ripit

I only bid on lenses located in the US (shipping usually kills the deal otherwise) but I often wonder how often I am bidding against others here. I doubt I am outbidding anyone in most cases as I usually bid very low. The only recent exception was a macro lens. I wasn't even looking for one but when I stumbled on a 200$ lens for 10$ with a poor description, I'm like, yea, I think I'll setup a snipe for 15$ hoping nobody else notices it. Towards the end, bidding went up to maybe 30$ (can not recall exactly). I'm like, what the heck, and set up a snipe for 41.26$. I just knew bidding was going to go over 100$ and thought I had no chance of winning it. I won it for 38$. I bet the person I just outbid was pretty mad (especially if he knew what the lens actually was). Thats what they get for bidding early and giving away their hand. Had the bidding not gone up early, I would have left my snipe at 15$.
I usually loose on the I hope nobody else notices it gamble but if you bid low often enough, eventually you will win a few.

I've bid on a few from the US. Shipping sometimes isn't as bad if it's goes by first mail but obviously my bids are going to be low in order to justify the total price. Same with the uk listings.

I'm still learning the snipe stuff. I usually just put in my max bid and leave it at that. I find it's a nice way to limit myself. If I get outbid and lose, it's either a. for the best, or b. i didn't want it that badly anyway. I was chatting to a friend the other day though who says she only ever snipes because the max bid way often just inflates the price. I've been thinking about that, and yesterday went and signed up to a snipe program to see what it's like. I've got a month's free subscription to see if I like it or not before commiting to paying for the service.

xjjohnno · 10-23-2011, 05:01 PM

Good buying tactics there Wolfiegirl, bid, walk away and if you win, great.
Ever watched an item for sale during the last minute of auction? It's hilarious seeing a bargain turn into something seriously overpriced because of excesses in competitiveness.
I think all a seller can do is provide an honest description of the physical condition of an item.

wolfiegirl · 10-23-2011, 05:03 PM

Hey xjjohnno,

Yeah like a few of you guys have noted, there's so many lenses out there, there's no way we can have them all. But by golly we try! LOL.

I hesitated on one auction and watched the seconds tick away. In the end I think I bid once or twice and then got outbid each time. At the end of it (after getting sucked into the competitiveness) I was pleased to know that it had gone for a lot more than it was worth.

I just figure if I really want it, I'll bid appropriately. Everyone has their limits right? Esp. cheapskates like me. LOL.

Meanwhile I just found out there's going to be a camera market in Canberra! With an auction!!! *gulp*

Anyone been to one before? Any good tactics to keep in mind?

ripit · 10-23-2011, 05:06 PM

Originally posted by wolfiegirl

I absolutely agree with you ripit. Why would the buyer be unhappy unless the seller listed it incorrectly? It's the buyer's job description to provide as much accurate info as possible. Otherwise you reap what you sow. Anyway, that's just my 2c worth.

I've bid on a few from the US. Shipping sometimes isn't as bad if it's goes by first mail but obviously my bids are going to be low in order to justify the total price. Same with the uk listings.

I'm still learning the snipe stuff. I usually just put in my max bid and leave it at that. I find it's a nice way to limit myself. If I get outbid and lose, it's either a. for the best, or b. i didn't want it that badly anyway. I was chatting to a friend the other day though who says she only ever snipes because the max bid way often just inflates the price. I've been thinking about that, and yesterday went and signed up to a snipe program to see what it's like. I've got a month's free subscription to see if I like it or not before commiting to paying for the service.

I'm not sure if it works there but I have been using the free version of gixen for a while and it has worked great. They also seem to update things pretty fast when ebay changes things (which can make your snipe program stop working). All you have to do is setup your login once, enter the auction number and your bid and click add. Its a program you run (no installation, just a stand alone program), but I think the bids come from a server. I don't think there are any real limits as I have had 20-30 snipes set up at once. There are several free ones though if you ebay enough a paid one might be worth it. You can find out about some here
Forums | The Auction Software Review

All bidding early does is gives others info that they have a competitor and the chance to bid against them to find out how much they bid. It often seems to make people bid more and makes the sale price go higher. You can still just set your maximum price as a snipe and walk away. On that recently won macro lens that I paid 38$ for (a vivitar 90mm 2.5 bokina), had they bid the same but sniped, I would have lost the auction to them. They bid early and tipped there hand, and I won. I sniped so they had no chance to try and increase their bid to beat me.

wolfiegirl · 10-23-2011, 05:12 PM

Hey Ripit,

I'm using Auction Gator at the moment. I had to provide my ebay login and pass in order for them to bid on my behalf. I assumed all sniper programs had to.

Thanks for the forum linky! Will go and check it out.

Yes, I realised when using the sniping program last night, it's just like putting a bid in ebay except I use another program. So I'm basically doing the same thing as before. It's just that the bid gets put in at the last minute instead of early. It probably works better anyway coz I don't have to worry. Someone else (the program) is keeping an eye on it for me instead. And I don't sit there and watch the seconds tick by and agonise over the price/purchase.

ripit · 10-23-2011, 05:15 PM

Originally posted by xjjohnno

Good buying tactics there Wolfiegirl, bid, walk away and if you win, great.
Ever watched an item for sale during the last minute of auction? It's hilarious seeing a bargain turn into something seriously overpriced because of excesses in competitiveness.

Even more reason to snipe. People don't know they are competing with you till its too late. It's amazing how high people will go in a frenzy of bidding at the end. I have seen used items sell for more than a new one cost. I have also seen bidding wars where to price didn't go too high (much higher than it started thorough), and I swooped in with a snipe and took it. Without the stupid little bidding war though, I think I would have got some of them a lot cheaper.

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10-22-2011, 05:02 PM	#46
wolfiegirl Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Mystery Bay, NSW Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,111 Original Poster	Yup re the Buyer's Protection. I didn't realise I could claim a "item not as described' and get ebay to refund me the $$ without question though! That's a new one! Although I'm sure it'd peeve off a lot of sellers. LOL. I want to keep my 100% feedback and I figure it's always more polite to contact them first. I made a point of being factual and not emotional when I explained what the problem was and she seemed fairly reasonable, despite a few hiccups. LOL. I only really get mad when they ignore me. That's when I pull out the big guns. wicked laugh

10-22-2011, 06:05 PM	#47
ripit Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: NewYork Posts: 899	Originally posted by wolfiegirl With the current 10 lenses sitting around the house I've started getting a better picture of what I do and don't need. Same here though I have probably 40 new lenses to play with to get an idea of what I like/use (50 if you count the hand full of auto focus lenses I have had for a much longer time). My several month out of control LBA is dieing off to a point as I am getting a much better picture of what I need and use (and in a lot of cases its something I already have). Outside of ebay I live in a really bad area for getting lenses (nearest camera shop is 30 miles away and doesn't carry much), not too many decent thrift shops or other sources either. I have gotten much pickier what I try to get as I have so many and have a better idea of what I want. Considering everything is twice the price there (or so I hear), it doesn't sound like you are doing too bad. A couple of warnings about ebay. In many cases, buyer protection will require you to send the item back at your expense (probably less of an issue as you are paying more for the actual item price). They do give full refund including the original shipping you paid though. If the seller refuses return even in the dispute or other extreme circumstances, I have heard of ebay refunding with out requiring return but it not the most common. I good seller will pay return shipping if its there mistake though so hopefully you wont have to use it. Also, if you do a lot of selling, beware getting another ebayer too angry in a dispute. Its not unheard for one to buy from you to retaliate and leave bad feedback (if you can prove it you can get it removed). Many sellers use different ebay id's for buying and selling. Here at least you are allowed to have several ebay id's.

10-23-2011, 02:45 AM	#48
xjjohnno Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Melbourne Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,115	Sellers can't leave negative feedback these days. They can leave comments though. Best option is negotiating with the seller though and settling the matter amicably but you're minus the shipping cost if you send the lens back. I do remember buying a SMC Takumar 1000mm f8 lens on the bay that had the internals of a mushroom farm, sold as only a dirty front element and won a refund. He must have been seriously cheesed off to see the postage price on the otem as the silly sod had sent it courier. Still better to have a tiny loss versus what I would have incurred trying to get it properly sorted.

10-23-2011, 03:22 AM	#49
photocanadian Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: capital city, the land of eh (Ottawa, Canada) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 329	Here is another dirty eBay trick: sellers can't leave negative or neutral feedback (and trust me, as a seller I am not happy about this one). You have nothing to worry about. EDIT: I got beat to it Originally posted by wolfiegirl Yup re the Buyer's Protection. I didn't realise I could claim a "item not as described' and get ebay to refund me the $$ without question though! That's a new one! Although I'm sure it'd peeve off a lot of sellers. LOL. I want to keep my 100% feedback and I figure it's always more polite to contact them first. I made a point of being factual and not emotional when I explained what the problem was and she seemed fairly reasonable, despite a few hiccups. LOL. I only really get mad when they ignore me. That's when I pull out the big guns. wicked laugh

10-23-2011, 08:01 AM	#50
Clinton Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Salt Lake City, UT Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,912	Originally posted by wolfiegirl Yup re the Buyer's Protection. I didn't realise I could claim a "item not as described' and get ebay to refund me the $$ without question though! That's a new one! Although I'm sure it'd peeve off a lot of sellers. LOL. I want to keep my 100% feedback and I figure it's always more polite to contact them first. I made a point of being factual and not emotional when I explained what the problem was and she seemed fairly reasonable, despite a few hiccups. LOL. I only really get mad when they ignore me. That's when I pull out the big guns. wicked laugh Interestingly enough ebay will sometimes refund you without charging the seller, when the amount is low enough. Ebay has figured out how much cash is simply not worth their time to get involved in.

10-23-2011, 08:05 AM	#51
Clinton Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Salt Lake City, UT Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,912	Originally posted by vw_michael Here is another dirty eBay trick: sellers can't leave negative or neutral feedback (and trust me, as a seller I am not happy about this one). Woah, since when?

10-23-2011, 08:29 AM	#52
ripit Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: NewYork Posts: 899	Originally posted by vw_michael Here is another dirty eBay trick: sellers can't leave negative or neutral feedback (and trust me, as a seller I am not happy about this one). You have nothing to worry about. EDIT: I got beat to it Things were worse off when sellers could leave negative feedback as there were many more corrupt sellers and nothing to stop them. You basically had to have got burned bad enough to be willing to accept bad feedback yourself if you were going to leave it. Mutual withdraws were a lot more common, sellers had much less incentive to make things right if they made a mistake, and bad sellers would not have bad ratings. You were gambeling on getting robbed every time you bought. I certainly see where it is causing problems now though as the current system leaves corrupt buyers open to extort or even rip off sellers. A little negative feedback can be very damaging to a seller (not only from the standpoint of looking safe to a buyer but ebay takes heavy action against sellers for it or low dsr's). Ultimately ebay needs to hire competent people and take a proper roll in disputes, as well as seller and buyer protection. That would cost ebay more money though which is probably why it won't happen weather its a good idea or not. I don't think reinstating bad seller feedback alone would fix anything. It would just shift power from fraudulent buyers to fraudulent sellers. I defiantly see your point as a seller. I recently won a vivitar 90mm 1.5 bokina for 45$ (if anyone is not familiar with it, it is worth and sells for many times more than that). I will most likely sell it but I highly doubt I will sell it on ebay. Its too valuable of an item and the risk of getting ripped off is too high. I'll probably try local consignment or craigslist or something (maybe the market place though I have no feedback here). Something else needs to be in place to manage things or neither feedback system will work, but the easiest solutions would cost ebay money. I think for now sellers are just going to have to accept its a walmart style market place. Buyers have to accept returns for any reason, even if the buyer trashed it, and a limited amount of fraud against the sellers is allowed to keep customer satisfaction across the board higher (yes I think ebay trys to keep fraud against sellers limited instead of trying to eliminate it). I work in retail and we are sometimes made to take back returns that everyone involved knows is fraudulent to keep from angering customers. High volume sellers can probably build the costs into their selling price but its a fatal system for the small sellers that originally built ebay. Regardless, I have 102 won auctions in the last 60 days (probably more in the 60 days before that as I have been doing early Christmas shopping for the kids to avoid being to broke to do it at the last minute, and some lba too). I would not have made the majority of those purchases if the old feedback system had still been in place. I would probably feel the other way if I made my living as a seller but untill/unless ebay takes a better approach to managing problems, someone is going to get screwed occasionally. With the current system, the balance is shifted towards the seller being the one that gets hit.

10-23-2011, 03:29 PM	#53
wolfiegirl Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Mystery Bay, NSW Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,111 Original Poster	I was also unaware of the non negative feedback for sellers. very interesting reading rip it. i've been thinking about it overnight and i still believe a good seller is one who is willing to pay the return costs on an item when the buyer is unhappy. i just think it builds trust and goodwill. if the customer isn't happy you would theoretically argue it's because the seller did not list the item as described or some such. having said that i'm not really complaining about how my own transaction went. i'm just saying is all. Originally posted by ripit Regardless, I have 102 won auctions in the last 60 days (probably more in the 60 days before that as I have been doing early Christmas shopping for the kids to avoid being to broke to do it at the last minute, and some lba too). Geez ripit - have you been the one outbidding me all the time??? I lost out on a pentax macro this morning. it sold for $80 give or take shipped. having said that my max bid was only $25... (I was hoping no one else had noticed the listing )

10-23-2011, 04:26 PM	#54
ripit Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: NewYork Posts: 899	Originally posted by wolfiegirl i've been thinking about it overnight and i still believe a good seller is one who is willing to pay the return costs on an item when the buyer is unhappy. i just think it builds trust and goodwill. In general you would think the item was not as described if the buyer is unhappy. After all, if they bought it you would think they wanted it. I can see a few instances where it might not be warranted. A piece of clothing didn't fit but the size was correct in the listing. The item was correct and in the condition the seller described it but the buyer didn't like it. With lenses, performance could be an issue. I have had a few that were in nice condition and as described but they just were not great performers. If the item is not as described, misrepresented, or even not in as good of condition as the listing implied, I would think the seller should pay return shipping. The buyer shouldn't be out any money if the problem was the sellers fault. Ebay will not ever require a seller to pay return shipping but a good seller will be willing to if the issue is their fault, even if it was accidental. Originally posted by wolfiegirl Geez ripit - have you been the one outbidding me all the time??? I lost out on a pentax macro this morning. it sold for $80 give or take shipped. having said that my max bid was only $25... (I was hoping no one else had noticed the listing ) I only bid on lenses located in the US (shipping usually kills the deal otherwise) but I often wonder how often I am bidding against others here. I doubt I am outbidding anyone in most cases as I usually bid very low. The only recent exception was a macro lens. I wasn't even looking for one but when I stumbled on a 200$ lens for 10$ with a poor description, I'm like, yea, I think I'll setup a snipe for 15$ hoping nobody else notices it. Towards the end, bidding went up to maybe 30$ (can not recall exactly). I'm like, what the heck, and set up a snipe for 41.26$. I just knew bidding was going to go over 100$ and thought I had no chance of winning it. I won it for 38$. I bet the person I just outbid was pretty mad (especially if he knew what the lens actually was). Thats what they get for bidding early and giving away their hand. Had the bidding not gone up early, I would have left my snipe at 15$. I usually loose on the I hope nobody else notices it gamble but if you bid low often enough, eventually you will win a few.

10-23-2011, 04:34 PM	#55
wolfiegirl Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Mystery Bay, NSW Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,111 Original Poster	Originally posted by ripit In general you would think the item was not as described if the buyer is unhappy. After all, if they bought it you would think they wanted it. I can see a few instances where it might not be warranted. A piece of clothing didn't fit but the size was correct in the listing. The item was correct and in the condition the seller described it but the buyer didn't like it. With lenses, performance could be an issue. I have had a few that were in nice condition and as described but they just were not great performers. If the item is not as described, misrepresented, or even not in as good of condition as the listing implied, I would think the seller should pay return shipping. The buyer shouldn't be out any money if the problem was the sellers fault. Ebay will not ever require a seller to pay return shipping but a good seller will be willing to if the issue is their fault, even if it was accidental. I absolutely agree with you ripit. Why would the buyer be unhappy unless the seller listed it incorrectly? It's the buyer's job description to provide as much accurate info as possible. Otherwise you reap what you sow. Anyway, that's just my 2c worth. Originally posted by ripit I only bid on lenses located in the US (shipping usually kills the deal otherwise) but I often wonder how often I am bidding against others here. I doubt I am outbidding anyone in most cases as I usually bid very low. The only recent exception was a macro lens. I wasn't even looking for one but when I stumbled on a 200$ lens for 10$ with a poor description, I'm like, yea, I think I'll setup a snipe for 15$ hoping nobody else notices it. Towards the end, bidding went up to maybe 30$ (can not recall exactly). I'm like, what the heck, and set up a snipe for 41.26$. I just knew bidding was going to go over 100$ and thought I had no chance of winning it. I won it for 38$. I bet the person I just outbid was pretty mad (especially if he knew what the lens actually was). Thats what they get for bidding early and giving away their hand. Had the bidding not gone up early, I would have left my snipe at 15$. I usually loose on the I hope nobody else notices it gamble but if you bid low often enough, eventually you will win a few. I've bid on a few from the US. Shipping sometimes isn't as bad if it's goes by first mail but obviously my bids are going to be low in order to justify the total price. Same with the uk listings. I'm still learning the snipe stuff. I usually just put in my max bid and leave it at that. I find it's a nice way to limit myself. If I get outbid and lose, it's either a. for the best, or b. i didn't want it that badly anyway. I was chatting to a friend the other day though who says she only ever snipes because the max bid way often just inflates the price. I've been thinking about that, and yesterday went and signed up to a snipe program to see what it's like. I've got a month's free subscription to see if I like it or not before commiting to paying for the service.

10-23-2011, 05:01 PM	#56
xjjohnno Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Melbourne Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,115	Good buying tactics there Wolfiegirl, bid, walk away and if you win, great. Ever watched an item for sale during the last minute of auction? It's hilarious seeing a bargain turn into something seriously overpriced because of excesses in competitiveness. I think all a seller can do is provide an honest description of the physical condition of an item.

10-23-2011, 05:03 PM	#57
wolfiegirl Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Mystery Bay, NSW Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,111 Original Poster	Hey xjjohnno, Yeah like a few of you guys have noted, there's so many lenses out there, there's no way we can have them all. But by golly we try! LOL. I hesitated on one auction and watched the seconds tick away. In the end I think I bid once or twice and then got outbid each time. At the end of it (after getting sucked into the competitiveness) I was pleased to know that it had gone for a lot more than it was worth. I just figure if I really want it, I'll bid appropriately. Everyone has their limits right? Esp. cheapskates like me. LOL. Meanwhile I just found out there's going to be a camera market in Canberra! With an auction!!! gulp Anyone been to one before? Any good tactics to keep in mind?

10-23-2011, 05:06 PM	#58
ripit Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: NewYork Posts: 899	Originally posted by wolfiegirl I absolutely agree with you ripit. Why would the buyer be unhappy unless the seller listed it incorrectly? It's the buyer's job description to provide as much accurate info as possible. Otherwise you reap what you sow. Anyway, that's just my 2c worth. I've bid on a few from the US. Shipping sometimes isn't as bad if it's goes by first mail but obviously my bids are going to be low in order to justify the total price. Same with the uk listings. I'm still learning the snipe stuff. I usually just put in my max bid and leave it at that. I find it's a nice way to limit myself. If I get outbid and lose, it's either a. for the best, or b. i didn't want it that badly anyway. I was chatting to a friend the other day though who says she only ever snipes because the max bid way often just inflates the price. I've been thinking about that, and yesterday went and signed up to a snipe program to see what it's like. I've got a month's free subscription to see if I like it or not before commiting to paying for the service. I'm not sure if it works there but I have been using the free version of gixen for a while and it has worked great. They also seem to update things pretty fast when ebay changes things (which can make your snipe program stop working). All you have to do is setup your login once, enter the auction number and your bid and click add. Its a program you run (no installation, just a stand alone program), but I think the bids come from a server. I don't think there are any real limits as I have had 20-30 snipes set up at once. There are several free ones though if you ebay enough a paid one might be worth it. You can find out about some here Forums \| The Auction Software Review All bidding early does is gives others info that they have a competitor and the chance to bid against them to find out how much they bid. It often seems to make people bid more and makes the sale price go higher. You can still just set your maximum price as a snipe and walk away. On that recently won macro lens that I paid 38$ for (a vivitar 90mm 2.5 bokina), had they bid the same but sniped, I would have lost the auction to them. They bid early and tipped there hand, and I won. I sniped so they had no chance to try and increase their bid to beat me.

10-23-2011, 05:12 PM	#59
wolfiegirl Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Mystery Bay, NSW Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,111 Original Poster	Hey Ripit, I'm using Auction Gator at the moment. I had to provide my ebay login and pass in order for them to bid on my behalf. I assumed all sniper programs had to. Thanks for the forum linky! Will go and check it out. Yes, I realised when using the sniping program last night, it's just like putting a bid in ebay except I use another program. So I'm basically doing the same thing as before. It's just that the bid gets put in at the last minute instead of early. It probably works better anyway coz I don't have to worry. Someone else (the program) is keeping an eye on it for me instead. And I don't sit there and watch the seconds tick by and agonise over the price/purchase.

10-23-2011, 05:15 PM	#60
ripit Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: NewYork Posts: 899	Originally posted by xjjohnno Good buying tactics there Wolfiegirl, bid, walk away and if you win, great. Ever watched an item for sale during the last minute of auction? It's hilarious seeing a bargain turn into something seriously overpriced because of excesses in competitiveness. Even more reason to snipe. People don't know they are competing with you till its too late. It's amazing how high people will go in a frenzy of bidding at the end. I have seen used items sell for more than a new one cost. I have also seen bidding wars where to price didn't go too high (much higher than it started thorough), and I swooped in with a snipe and took it. Without the stupid little bidding war though, I think I would have got some of them a lot cheaper.