True Need for Wide Angle, or Just LBA?

jqjones · 11-05-2011, 11:54 PM

Right now I believe I am currently suffering from something many of us here have gone through.

1) Mind saying that I need this
2) Budget saying hell no
3) Spouse looking at us like we are crazy and might kill us if we press buy.

Current Digital Kit is as follows.

K-X
K110D
FA 50 1.4
Tamron 28-75 2.8
Tamron 70-200 2.8
Sigma 105 2.8 Macro

The situation for me is that I live in a tiny house. 1 BR 800-900sh sq ft, with a crib shoved in a 6' x 12' room. I keep having this fear that the 28mm wont be wide enough for some of the tight spaces in the house and I'll want something wider. I keep looking at either something that goes to 10mm, or the 15mm Ltd. My budget can maybe fit $300-$350 tops, but that is pushing it. But man do I love that Ltd. I keep drooling over is every time I see it. I've even considered selling the macro to fund it, or maybe start selling more manual equipment off.

Am I really going to need the shorter reach? Or am I just making excuses to fund the kit? I have two months to figure this out before the baby arrives!

ripit · 11-06-2011, 01:20 AM

Why not try some test shots with the 28-75mm. This may sound a little silly; but if you need a test subject, get a doll. Maybe the wife will think you have gone nuts and will have bigger concerns than you buying a lens, lol. personally i have done just fine with 28mm lenses and rarely get out the 18mm. Being able to close focus might be as much or more of a concern in tight quarters.

pentup · 11-06-2011, 01:34 AM

Not to add to your quandary, but you might want to consider the 21mm ltd.

People rave about the 15mm; I tried one and I disliked using it indoors. Maybe I had a bad copy, but it was really soft until stopped down to f8. (and no, I'm not talking about depth of field hiding/revealing focus issues. Manually focused very carefully, my 15 was worse than the kit zoom unless I stopped way down. Less of an issue with your Kx than with my K-7 perhaps. But I think I had a bad copy.

I haven't tried the 21mm, but I really want that focal length. The only major gripe against it is the barrel distortion, which seems excessive for a not-cheap prime. But easily correctable in post, as everyone says, although I dislike being forced to crop images to correct for distortion, although I do a lot of cropping anyway, so I probably shouldn't worry about it. It's comparatively slow too, but that doesn't bother me. Worthwhile trade-off to keep the thing tiny.

Good luck and congrats on the baby!

21mm is a lot wider than 28; it might suit you well, while giving you more flexibility for general shooting when you're less cramped.

excanonfd · 11-06-2011, 01:52 AM

Heaven forbid, I wouldn't want to dissuade from pursuing your happiness of LBA but 28mm should do in most situations even in a 6x12 room. You could test the focal length for yourself; go in the room and take some shots. A 28mm lens focused at around 10' cover floor to ceiling vertically and focused at 6' show about 4' in image height horizontally. If you walk around your baby room, you should be able to get an idea where the best spot to plant yourself to get the best shooting angle. If you need more reach than 28mm, a Tamron 17-50/2.8 is barely in your budget used but the lowly Pentax 18-55 kit lens @ 50.00 used, would be an ultra cheap option as well.

**Ash** · 11-06-2011, 02:18 AM

Resist the urge to buy an 'unnecessary' item you don't have the money required to buy it with. That's just a general suggestion.
Specifically, 28mm is not wide at all on APS-C. But what do you 'need' to shoot in your home to require something wider? I'd strongly encourage you to shoot with what you have until you know exactly what lens you want to add to your collection, and have budgeted appropriately for it.

Steinback · 11-06-2011, 02:36 AM

My indoor wide angle is still the kit 18-55mm despite having a wide selection of high quality glass from 24mm and up. With some semi-skilled use of bounce flash the 18-55 is quite capable indoors at f/5.6 or higher (to prevent the need to change flash settings as the aperture varies with zooming), especially if your ceilings are white.

RioRico · 11-06-2011, 02:47 AM

You can never have too many lenses -- unless there's no room for them. But in your situation, why not buy a used DA18-55 kit lens cheap on the bay? 28mm is 'normal' on your cameras, not wide at all. 28mm give an AOV (angle of view) of ~57 degrees; for 18mm it's ~80 degrees. The 18-55's few weaknesses can be easily fixed in PP. Using it in your space, you'll (cheaply) find whether you *need* a shorter wider lens; and meanwhile you'll have something to use whilst saving up for any more goodies, like a Ltd or UWA or FE or whatever. The quest ever continues...

JohnX · 11-06-2011, 04:20 AM

You can always stitch together a series of shots taken with a longer focal length, same as you would if creating a panoramic shot.

djc737 · 11-06-2011, 05:01 AM

You never really said what it is in your house you wanted to photograph that would require such a wide lens. For your kid, any of your lenses will due which will also give your a variety of different aspects of your kid(s). I personally relieved my LBA by buying the biggest lens I could afford, a Tamron 400mm f4.0, and any time I get the urge to buy I just look at that monster and calm down.
A variety of lenses are fun to have, but as they say, you can't take them with you, not at least all of them. No I wasn't talking about the after life, I was referring to a photo shoot. ;-) Dave

pentup · 11-06-2011, 05:15 AM

Originally posted by djc737

You never really said what it is in your house you wanted to photograph that would require such a wide lens.

I think a baby in "a crib shoved in a 6' x 12' room" describes the need pretty well. I'm not urging the OP to indulge the LBA, but 28 isn't wide at all on this format. Who doesn't want to go wider sometimes? The kit zoom is a good suggestion; I don't like mine, but it's flexible and the WR is nice to have.

Mareket · 11-06-2011, 05:30 AM

I hear the Sigma 8-16 is a really nice lens...

But yeah, the 18-55 is a great lens, and the distortion is easily fixed. It's cheap and as such you'll do things with it you wouldn't dream of doing with the 15mm Ltd. And I think I had a bad copy of the 15, mine was hideously soft anywhere but dead centre at f/4, and I rarely used it below f/8, which made it kind of annoying for indoor shots.

Colbyt · 11-06-2011, 05:50 AM

Originally posted by pentup

I think a baby in "a crib shoved in a 6' x 12' room" describes the need pretty well. .

I think it does. And the need isn't for a wider lens.

I also want to point out that was about the size of my son's room until he was about 5, so I am not being derogatory here.

But I will say he had a larger room before I indulged in expensive big boy toys. I had an ME Super and a 50mm lens for many years before I added anything else.

Edgar_in_Indy · 11-06-2011, 05:52 AM

Why not sell the K110D? Assuming it's in good condition, it should bring $100 - $150. Add that to your budget of $300 - $350, and you would be within the range of lenses like the Sigma 10-20mm or Tamron 10-24mm.

With the K-x, I can't imagine much point in keeping the older body around.

And as far as the wife situation, I always tell her that the lenses are really for both of us, since I use them to make precious images of the children that will last a lifetime. And I usually follow that up with telling her that a lens is like "money in the bank", since you can always sell it for as much as you paid for it, and sometimes more if you got a really good deal. So if things get really tight those lenses can be converted back into cash. Theoretically at least. Personally, I would keep the lenses and use them to document our life living in a box under a bridge.

**Lowell Goudge** · 11-06-2011, 06:20 AM

I would personally never sell a second body. In fact over 30 years I have never sold any of my gear. Maybe that's why I have 3 film bodies 4 DSLRs and 45 lenses. (how do you spell LBA any way.).

Have you considered the samyang 14mm F2.8?

Edgar_in_Indy · 11-06-2011, 06:25 AM

But unlike lenses, bodies devalue over time and become less useful in comparison to newer bodies. This is especially true of digital bodies.

I briefly owned a k100d along with my K-x. And with the K-x being so much better at low light and producing images that were twice the resolution, I didn't feel any tempation to keep the K-x. I also found the K-x interface and controls much more intuitive than the k100d.

11-05-2011, 11:54 PM	#1
jqjones Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: North Dakota Photos: Gallery Posts: 143	True Need for Wide Angle, or Just LBA? Right now I believe I am currently suffering from something many of us here have gone through. 1) Mind saying that I need this 2) Budget saying hell no 3) Spouse looking at us like we are crazy and might kill us if we press buy. Current Digital Kit is as follows. K-X K110D FA 50 1.4 Tamron 28-75 2.8 Tamron 70-200 2.8 Sigma 105 2.8 Macro The situation for me is that I live in a tiny house. 1 BR 800-900sh sq ft, with a crib shoved in a 6' x 12' room. I keep having this fear that the 28mm wont be wide enough for some of the tight spaces in the house and I'll want something wider. I keep looking at either something that goes to 10mm, or the 15mm Ltd. My budget can maybe fit $300-$350 tops, but that is pushing it. But man do I love that Ltd. I keep drooling over is every time I see it. I've even considered selling the macro to fund it, or maybe start selling more manual equipment off. Am I really going to need the shorter reach? Or am I just making excuses to fund the kit? I have two months to figure this out before the baby arrives!

11-06-2011, 05:52 AM	#13
Edgar_in_Indy Veteran Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Indiana, USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,685	Why not sell the K110D? Assuming it's in good condition, it should bring $100 - $150. Add that to your budget of $300 - $350, and you would be within the range of lenses like the Sigma 10-20mm or Tamron 10-24mm. With the K-x, I can't imagine much point in keeping the older body around. And as far as the wife situation, I always tell her that the lenses are really for both of us, since I use them to make precious images of the children that will last a lifetime. And I usually follow that up with telling her that a lens is like "money in the bank", since you can always sell it for as much as you paid for it, and sometimes more if you got a really good deal. So if things get really tight those lenses can be converted back into cash. Theoretically at least. Personally, I would keep the lenses and use them to document our life living in a box under a bridge. Last edited by Edgar_in_Indy; 11-06-2011 at 06:13 AM.

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11-06-2011, 01:20 AM	#2
ripit Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: NewYork Posts: 899	Why not try some test shots with the 28-75mm. This may sound a little silly; but if you need a test subject, get a doll. Maybe the wife will think you have gone nuts and will have bigger concerns than you buying a lens, lol. personally i have done just fine with 28mm lenses and rarely get out the 18mm. Being able to close focus might be as much or more of a concern in tight quarters.

11-06-2011, 01:34 AM	#3
pentup Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Flushing NY Photos: Albums Posts: 413	Not to add to your quandary, but you might want to consider the 21mm ltd. People rave about the 15mm; I tried one and I disliked using it indoors. Maybe I had a bad copy, but it was really soft until stopped down to f8. (and no, I'm not talking about depth of field hiding/revealing focus issues. Manually focused very carefully, my 15 was worse than the kit zoom unless I stopped way down. Less of an issue with your Kx than with my K-7 perhaps. But I think I had a bad copy. I haven't tried the 21mm, but I really want that focal length. The only major gripe against it is the barrel distortion, which seems excessive for a not-cheap prime. But easily correctable in post, as everyone says, although I dislike being forced to crop images to correct for distortion, although I do a lot of cropping anyway, so I probably shouldn't worry about it. It's comparatively slow too, but that doesn't bother me. Worthwhile trade-off to keep the thing tiny. Good luck and congrats on the baby! 21mm is a lot wider than 28; it might suit you well, while giving you more flexibility for general shooting when you're less cramped.

11-06-2011, 01:52 AM	#4
excanonfd Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 1,421	Heaven forbid, I wouldn't want to dissuade from pursuing your happiness of LBA but 28mm should do in most situations even in a 6x12 room. You could test the focal length for yourself; go in the room and take some shots. A 28mm lens focused at around 10' cover floor to ceiling vertically and focused at 6' show about 4' in image height horizontally. If you walk around your baby room, you should be able to get an idea where the best spot to plant yourself to get the best shooting angle. If you need more reach than 28mm, a Tamron 17-50/2.8 is barely in your budget used but the lowly Pentax 18-55 kit lens @ 50.00 used, would be an ultra cheap option as well.

11-06-2011, 02:18 AM	#5
Ash Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Toowoomba, Queensland Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,920	Resist the urge to buy an 'unnecessary' item you don't have the money required to buy it with. That's just a general suggestion. Specifically, 28mm is not wide at all on APS-C. But what do you 'need' to shoot in your home to require something wider? I'd strongly encourage you to shoot with what you have until you know exactly what lens you want to add to your collection, and have budgeted appropriately for it.

11-06-2011, 02:36 AM	#6
Steinback Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: GTA, ON, Canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,673	My indoor wide angle is still the kit 18-55mm despite having a wide selection of high quality glass from 24mm and up. With some semi-skilled use of bounce flash the 18-55 is quite capable indoors at f/5.6 or higher (to prevent the need to change flash settings as the aperture varies with zooming), especially if your ceilings are white.

11-06-2011, 02:47 AM	#7
RioRico Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Limbo, California Posts: 11,263	You can never have too many lenses -- unless there's no room for them. But in your situation, why not buy a used DA18-55 kit lens cheap on the bay? 28mm is 'normal' on your cameras, not wide at all. 28mm give an AOV (angle of view) of ~57 degrees; for 18mm it's ~80 degrees. The 18-55's few weaknesses can be easily fixed in PP. Using it in your space, you'll (cheaply) find whether you need a shorter wider lens; and meanwhile you'll have something to use whilst saving up for any more goodies, like a Ltd or UWA or FE or whatever. The quest ever continues...

11-06-2011, 04:20 AM	#8
JohnX Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: London Posts: 1,116	You can always stitch together a series of shots taken with a longer focal length, same as you would if creating a panoramic shot.

11-06-2011, 05:01 AM	#9
djc737 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: South jersey outside of Philly Posts: 281	You never really said what it is in your house you wanted to photograph that would require such a wide lens. For your kid, any of your lenses will due which will also give your a variety of different aspects of your kid(s). I personally relieved my LBA by buying the biggest lens I could afford, a Tamron 400mm f4.0, and any time I get the urge to buy I just look at that monster and calm down. A variety of lenses are fun to have, but as they say, you can't take them with you, not at least all of them. No I wasn't talking about the after life, I was referring to a photo shoot. ;-) Dave

11-06-2011, 05:15 AM	#10
pentup Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Flushing NY Photos: Albums Posts: 413	Originally posted by djc737 You never really said what it is in your house you wanted to photograph that would require such a wide lens. I think a baby in "a crib shoved in a 6' x 12' room" describes the need pretty well. I'm not urging the OP to indulge the LBA, but 28 isn't wide at all on this format. Who doesn't want to go wider sometimes? The kit zoom is a good suggestion; I don't like mine, but it's flexible and the WR is nice to have.

11-06-2011, 05:30 AM	#11
Mareket Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Chester Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 719	I hear the Sigma 8-16 is a really nice lens... But yeah, the 18-55 is a great lens, and the distortion is easily fixed. It's cheap and as such you'll do things with it you wouldn't dream of doing with the 15mm Ltd. And I think I had a bad copy of the 15, mine was hideously soft anywhere but dead centre at f/4, and I rarely used it below f/8, which made it kind of annoying for indoor shots.

11-06-2011, 05:50 AM	#12
Colbyt Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Central Kentucky Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,417	Originally posted by pentup I think a baby in "a crib shoved in a 6' x 12' room" describes the need pretty well. . I think it does. And the need isn't for a wider lens. I also want to point out that was about the size of my son's room until he was about 5, so I am not being derogatory here. But I will say he had a larger room before I indulged in expensive big boy toys. I had an ME Super and a 50mm lens for many years before I added anything else.

11-06-2011, 06:20 AM	#14
Lowell Goudge Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,887	I would personally never sell a second body. In fact over 30 years I have never sold any of my gear. Maybe that's why I have 3 film bodies 4 DSLRs and 45 lenses. (how do you spell LBA any way.). Have you considered the samyang 14mm F2.8?

11-06-2011, 06:25 AM	#15
Edgar_in_Indy Veteran Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Indiana, USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,685	But unlike lenses, bodies devalue over time and become less useful in comparison to newer bodies. This is especially true of digital bodies. I briefly owned a k100d along with my K-x. And with the K-x being so much better at low light and producing images that were twice the resolution, I didn't feel any tempation to keep the K-x. I also found the K-x interface and controls much more intuitive than the k100d.