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11-27-2011, 09:15 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by praterg Quote
I bought it over 2 years ago. My first SLR back int he 70's was the K1000. Of course everyone knows how good it was as a beginner camera. So, I thought k2000?....sounds like a done deal. After getting acquainted with the camera a few months and getting less than acceptable Jpeg images (I'm not an advanced user and have only dabbled with Raw processing) I begin to look for help on the internet. I find a review that points to the Jpeg engine delivering low image quality.
The difference between JPEG engines between any two cameras are completwly insignificant. You wouldn't be able to tell the difference without a magnifiying glass, and even then, you'd never get three people to agree whcih was better. And even if they agreed on whoch was better for one image, chances are, they,d feel the oppositw way about a different. reviewers talk anout JPEG engines as if they are significant because they have to write about *something*. but if you,re not already a professional photographer shooting with the most expensive lenses and making giant wall-sized poster prints - and then, inexplicably still shooting JPEG - would the quality of the JPEG engine ever come into it. The pictures that come out of a camera are oly as good as the skills of the photographer. So I'd start by posting some pictures you aren't happy with use the critique forums that exist for this purpose), descibe what specifically you'd like to see better, and others may be ale to give suggestions.

11-27-2011, 09:24 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by Edgar_in_Indy Quote
The reason I responded with my less-than-helpful answer is because I was annoyed with the fact that a brand new user comes on the board, and he isn't even informed enough to know that the K-x and K-5 can use the same lenses, yet he thinks himself knowledgeable enough to slam a great camera, the K-x, dismissing it as "crappy". As a very happy K-x owner who is still in LOVE with my camera after two years, I was naturally a little defensive.
You realize his mention of the K-x was a typo, and he meant K-m, right? Still, no reason to get defensive even if it were the model you have.

Not that it's that big a deal, as you said, someone would come along and add the info.
11-27-2011, 09:33 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by Marc Sabatella Quote
The difference between JPEG engines between any two cameras are completwly insignificant. You wouldn't be able to tell the difference without a magnifiying glass, and even then, you'd never get three people to agree whcih was better.
I think you're right about the JPEG processing. To demonstrate, I'm reposting one of my sample JPEG pictures from the first page of this thread, and now I'm also posting the same image developed from the RAW image (I was shooting in RAW+JPEG mode). Both images are straight out of the camera, with no post-processing, other than to save the RAW file as a JPEG. I challenge anybody to pixel-peep both images and find any difference in quality.

Looking at the pictures now side-by-side, it looks like the JPEG image may have a slightly lighter background tone, but that is just a subjective difference, not necessarily being better or worse. It may have been caused by "shadow correction" being enabled for JPEGs.




Last edited by Edgar_in_Indy; 11-27-2011 at 09:40 PM.
11-27-2011, 09:37 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by Philoslothical Quote
You realize his mention of the K-x was a typo, and he meant K-m, right? Still, no reason to get defensive even if it were the model you have.
No, I didn't see his edit clarifying the typo. But I still think it was natural for me to feel defensive when a new user came on here and dismissed the K-x as "crappy", and then asked a super basic question. But it's not a big deal, and I've already apologized, and hopefully we're all learning a little bit from the ensuing discussion.

11-27-2011, 11:26 PM   #20
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I would think if you can't get a satisfactory image out of a K-m, you won't see a huge difference going to the K-5. The K-m is a very capable camera, it has the same sensor as the old K10D, which can produce some wonderful images. Not a "crappy" camera by any means.

If you really think it is "crap", send it my way, I'll even pay shipping. It would be a nice companion to my well loved K100D.
11-27-2011, 11:56 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by praterg Quote
I bought it over 2 years ago. My first SLR back int he 70's was the K1000. Of course everyone knows how good it was as a beginner camera. So, I thought k2000?....sounds like a done deal. After getting acquainted with the camera a few months and getting less than acceptable Jpeg images (I'm not an advanced user and have only dabbled with Raw processing) I begin to look for help on the internet. I find a review that points to the Jpeg engine delivering low image quality. I look deeper and find 2 more reviews that pinpoint the same culprit. The camera is easy to use and the learning curve for me was shallow, but without good image quality all other features are pointless. I'm still loyal to Pentax, though I have read reviews for other brands/cameras(namely the canon 600D and Nikon 5100.....but I doubt ill ever stray.

Hope that is what you were looking for.
You came to the right place for help Maybe you can start a thread where you post an image, tell us what you think is wrong, and people can advise how to improve.

The complaints about the K2000 with regards to IQ are the same as for the K200D (at least in the DPR review); they might be right or wrong (I don't know as I don't have either camera) but there is a thread here on PF in the line of "Do you miss the K200D?" which would basically imply that the IQ of that camera is actually 'not as bad' as the review states. Either users of K200Ds find the 'poor' quality acceptable or they spend a little time on finetuning the JPEG settings in the camera or on RAW processing.

Did you try adjusting jpeg settings in the camera or dabble a bit more in RAW to get better results? You don't need to be an advanced user to circumvent the in-camera JPEG engine using RAW conversion.

I've seen plenty of impressive K200D photos and I'm quite sure I've seen plenty of impressive K2000 photos as well without realizing it; only reason why I phrase it like this is that I sometimes know that a photographer who posts images uses a K200D.

I'm not trying to talk you out of a new camera; the K5 is an absolutely brilliant piece of machinery and can generate excellent JPEGs (after possible finetuning of the in-camera settings).
12-02-2011, 01:48 PM   #22
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wow....love this passion. You guys really are ready to go to war to defend the brand. Thats good.....but regardless of my use of the word crappy....my original post was about lens compatibility. However If I ever feel like I need a critique or advice I know where to find it, but at this time I'm not looking for a fix. Elliott Ill sure send it you if you want to buy it, but I'm guessing your statement was not genuine and made at my expense

Anyway thanks again for the advice all.

Oh and everyone must be a "new member " at some point...new to the forum but not a new photographer
12-02-2011, 02:14 PM - 1 Like   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by Edgar_in_Indy Quote
No. May as well go ahead and sell your Pentax and buy a Canon.
QuoteOriginally posted by Philoslothical Quote
Granted, we get this question way too much, and people should make some effort to find the answer themselves before asking it again, but the guy just registered to make this post, he might believe you for all we know.

OP, of course they will work. Any Pentax lens with a K mount will work.
Actually, we should NOT respond in this manner, because although it is all so, so obvious to us pentaxians, do not forget, Not all Nikon cameras can use all Nikon lenses, as some entry level cameras lack screw drive, and canon has abandoned TOTALLY its users not once but twice, with lens mount changes that made all past lenses unuseable.

I think, given what the photo industry leaders have done to their customers in the past is why we get this so many times. We shoudl never , ever, even in jokes, tell a new member something misleading in this respect.

12-02-2011, 02:37 PM   #24
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Everything true for the K200D should also be true for the K-m/K2000, which was more or less a follower of the K200D, when production became too expensive for the market price which could be achieved. Pentax took the K200D, put it in a less sturdy housing without water/dust protection and head display, and provided it with a SLIGHT increase of the frame rate for continous shooting. Otherwise it is the same camera, but it could be produced much cheaper. I know what this camera can do, and at the time of its introduction, the K200D was much more than an "Entry Level Camera". Except the points mentioned, the same should be true for the K-m/K2000.

The low ISO performance maybe not the best (but not the worst, 3-4 years ago, either!), but 100 ISO pictures often make me wonder whether it really got just a 10MP sensor.
12-02-2011, 03:19 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by praterg Quote
my original post was about lens compatibility. However If I ever feel like I need a critique or advice I know where to find it, but at this time I'm not looking for a fix.
OK, but that means your problem won't be fixed... - because whatever problems you might be having, it is absolutely positively *not* the JPEG engine in the camera. But to again answer your question, yes, the cameras both accept the exact same set of lenses. So you will be able to use your existing lenses with the K-5, and then to come back here and ask for help with whatever the real problem turns out to be.
12-03-2011, 03:08 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by praterg Quote
Elliott Ill sure send it you if you want to buy it, but I'm guessing your statement was not genuine and made at my expense
It wasn't complete sarcasm, I wouldn't mind having one as a second body for the right price. What is a crappy old body with terrible JPEG engine that can't produce a good quality image worth to you?
12-03-2011, 12:03 PM   #27
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Not to mention the K-x is a superb low light performer. After shooting film for many years, the small amount of noise you get at higher ISO settings on a K-x is absolutely incredible. Supposedly that is something the K-x is very good at when compared to its peers and even some prosumer cameras.

Sorry... came late to the discussion... lol! Forget what I said.
12-03-2011, 01:03 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by Edgar_in_Indy Quote
As a very happy K-x owner who is still in LOVE with my camera after two years, I was naturally a little defensive.
Why "naturally"? I don't find it natural at all. I find it silly. These are devices, not people. OP wasn't dissing your girlfriend. Whatever the faults of the original post, you're fooling yourself if you think your reply was anything but obnoxious and pointless. If you felt the OP was wasting your time by not googling to your satisfaction, you could have ignored the thread. But trying to justify your petulance based on reacting as if he were insulting a human being, instead of a camera, for crying out loud, seems pretty weird to me.
12-03-2011, 05:39 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by pentup Quote
Why "naturally"? I don't find it natural at all. I find it silly. These are devices, not people. OP wasn't dissing your girlfriend. Whatever the faults of the original post, you're fooling yourself if you think your reply was anything but obnoxious and pointless. If you felt the OP was wasting your time by not googling to your satisfaction, you could have ignored the thread. But trying to justify your petulance based on reacting as if he were insulting a human being, instead of a camera, for crying out loud, seems pretty weird to me.
Have you ever been on the internet before?
12-03-2011, 08:21 PM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by DogLover Quote
Have you ever been on the internet before?
Is that another excuse? :ugh:
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