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12-13-2011, 07:43 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by RioRico Quote
In fact, 35mm is long-normal or short-tele on APS-C -- FOV-equivalent to 50-55mm on FF/135 film cams, good for in-camera crops. Normal on APS-C is 28-30mm; 24mm and shorter are wide. The cheapest decent wide lens is the humble | underrated DA18-55.
Amen Brother.

12-14-2011, 01:01 PM   #17
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Yeah I wasn't saying its wide (the Pentax 35mm f2.8 Macro Limited) just that it seems a very fine lens by all accounts... and the priority to buy a wide might be re-thought
12-16-2011, 03:22 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by RioRico Quote
In fact, 35mm is long-normal or short-tele on APS-C -- FOV-equivalent to 50-55mm
35mm a short tele on APS-C? That's a heavy nonsense....
12-16-2011, 03:49 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by vrrattko Quote
35mm a short tele on APS-C? That's a heavy nonsense....
Not at all. Normal focal length for APS-C is 28-30mm, depending on exact sensor size. Official APS-C has a 30mm diagonal; for my K20D it's 28mm. Normal focal length for 135/FF is 43mm, the diagonal of a full-frame -- those 50-55-58 kit lenses were recognized by shooters as being short tele. Many 135/FF RFs had 43-45mm lenses, quite normal, just as many Pentaxians see the 31 Ltd as normal on their dSLRs. 40mm lenses were also popular for 135/FF, just wider than normal; I have a couple.

There are reasons why 50-55mm lenses were standard on 135/FF SLRs:

* Without retrofocus elements, lenses must be longer than normal in order to clear the SLR mirror box. (This a problem for Canoneers using some Takumars.)
* 50-55-58mm seems to be a very easy range for designing optics, especially fast optics, hence all the classic f/1.2 and f/1.4 glass available in that range.
* MF users with 'normal' lenses had lots of image area to crop; 135/FF negatives are much smaller. With a 50-55mm lens, the shooter essentially crops in-camera.

Depending on who is talking, 35-37mm on APS-C or 50-55-58mm on 135/FF can be called long-normal or short-tele; 28mm on APS-C or 40-45mm on 135/FF can be called short-normal. I didn't just dream this up; it's in the literature. So 35mm on APS-C or 50mm on 135/FF may be familiar; but they're optically long, not 'normal'.

12-16-2011, 04:45 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by RioRico Quote
Not at all. Normal focal length for APS-C is 28-30mm, depending on exact sensor size. Official APS-C has a 30mm diagonal; for my K20D it's 28mm. Normal focal length for 135/FF is 43mm, the diagonal of a full-frame -- those 50-55-58 kit lenses were recognized by shooters as being short tele.
First of all...43mm is considered 'standard focal lenght' in 'Pentax land', it is more like wide standard. Globally the premise is that 50-55-58 are considered among the photography community as a standard lenses with normal FOV, but also for reasons you listed.
But when speaking about telephoto lenses: as far as I know short teles are lenses covering a 30 to 10 field of view, which is equivalent to 75mm to 135mm in 35mm FF.
Now FA35 on APS-C has 45 diagonal FOV and 38 horizontal FOV .....not even close to 30. So how that qualifies this lens as a short tele? Long standard if you like - yes. But certainly not short tele.

Consider FA50/1.4 - on APS-C has 32 diagonal FOV and 27 horizontal FOV....now that might qualify it as a short tele by a narrow margin. FA35 - not by far.

Last edited by vrrattko; 12-16-2011 at 04:50 AM.
12-16-2011, 08:13 PM   #21
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I won't quibble on the semantics. I'll just repeat that for working 135/FF toggers, 50-55-58mm were considered short teles. That's the history. For APS-C, 35-37-40mm are FOV-equivalent. We may become accustomed to certain focal lengths, which makes them standard but not normal. For 135/FF shooters, depending on the camera, anything between 35-58mm was standard. That's a pretty wide range. My Olympus XA with its Zuiko 35/2.8; my Petri 7S with its 45/1.8; my Spotmatic with its SuperTak 50/1.4; my Praktica L2 with its Helios-44 58/2 -- these are all standard lenses for those shooting them, and only the Petri is near normal.

'Normal' is a funny word. It can mean: what we're used to; a right angle; the diagonal of a camera frame; falling within a statistical range; a narrow prejudice; probably a few other things that I won't bother to look up now. But optically, a noticeably narrower FOV than that of a lens whose focal length is longer than the frame diagonal, is no longer normal. Which IMHO makes 35-37-40mm (on APS-C) and 50-55-58mm (on 135/FF) into short teles.
12-17-2011, 09:49 PM   #22
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Hi friends,
with great interest I read your suggestions and experiences with a wide-angle lenses. I want your honest advice for the purchase of high quality and very fast lens with large aperture. CA is not desirable and pronounced distortion. For quite some time viewing tests, and always find some flaw. The lens should I use for the interior and exterier without additional illumination.
I thank you in advance and nice greetings.
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