£400 budget- which lens should I go for?

RioRico · 12-24-2011, 02:56 AM

Originally posted by Lowell Goudge

that's why I suggested upgrading the kit

Well, the ideal 'scape kit would be based on the 645D. [/me watches money vanish]

sterretje · 12-24-2011, 03:43 AM

Why you Need a Telephoto Zoom Lens for Landscape Photography

I've also seen a (kind of) landscape shot taken with 600mm + 1.4x TC on full frame. But it just depends on what you want to capture, and more importantly, how you want to capture.

RioRico · 12-24-2011, 04:58 AM

Originally posted by sterretje

Why you Need a Telephoto Zoom Lens for Landscape Photography

I've also seen a (kind of) landscape shot taken with 600mm + 1.4x TC on full frame. But it just depends on what you want to capture, and more importantly, how you want to capture.

Why sure, some notable 'scapes are shot long, with looming rocks-peaks-moon-trees-whatever. And some are shot with frame-filling fisheye. That's why the DA10-17 and an old Alpa-Cosina 300/5.6 are in my usual kit. And the Lil'Bigma 170-500 has its uses. As with portraiture, any focal length may be called for. Gotta be careful about WHEN long glass is used though. Cold mornings, still air are best, at least if something resembling clarity and sharpness are desired. Ah, but if distance blur is wanted, shoot long mid-afternoon.

chaza01 · 12-24-2011, 09:51 AM

I really appreciate everyone's feedback! Apropos to the UWA issue (flattening image) with the 12-24mm, would that still be a problem with the da21mm limited? Cheers

RioRico · 12-24-2011, 11:46 AM

Originally posted by chaza01

I really appreciate everyone's feedback! Apropos to the UWA issue (flattening image) with the 12-24mm, would that still be a problem with the da21mm limited? Cheers

Flattening is a function of perspective, which is a function of len-to-subject distance. In order to fit an image into a frame with different focal-length (FL) lenses, you must be closer-in with a shorter lens, further-back with a longer lens. So with a shorter lens, the near seems large and the distant shrinks away. With a longer lens, you'd be further from the subject; the background is magnified; and this perspective tends to 'flatten' the subject -- noses protrude less, etc.

So the answer: the 21Ltd, and the 12-24 or 16-45 or 17-50 or 18-55 etc @21mm, will have EXACTLY the same perspective. The zooms give you more control over perspective because you can choose among FL+distance combinations.

chaza01 · 12-26-2011, 09:16 AM

Originally posted by RioRico

The 10-24 is fine and I agree with all the above. I chose it over the DA12-24 and Sigma 10-20s. Yes, it's a most useful range. But as Lowell mentioned, the wide end is a bit much for 'scapes. I find 20-24mm good for 'scapes, 14-20mm for crowded streets etc, and 10-14mm for tight interiors. IMHO an ideal 'scape zoom for APS-C would be around 15-45mm. !No existe!

EDIT: But 16-45 is close enough. Rethinking, I'll say that Pentax needs a good 12-48/3.5 'scape zoom. !No existe!

Would you recommend the da21 ltd over the 12-24? Thanks

RioRico · 12-26-2011, 11:56 AM

Originally posted by chaza01

Would you recommend the da21 ltd over the 12-24? Thanks

I have neither so I can only go by specifications and reputations. The DA21/3.2 Ltd (140g) is a tiny pancake that's reportedly brilliant. (I considered it for my ultralight minikit.) The DA12-24/4 (430g) is 3x heavier; my equivalent Tamron 10-24 (450g) is not cumbersome, but it's no featherweight either.

The 12-24 and 21Ltd are totally different lenses. You must choose between lightweight brilliant optics (21Ltd) vs flexibility and *merely* good optics (12-24).

What would I recommend? Depends on what you want to do. IMHO a 21Ltd on a Kr would be tres compact, a great street kit; a 12-24 on a K5 would be a great interiors kit that's also good on streets. That's over-generalizing, of course, but the differences are there.

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12-24-2011, 02:56 AM	#16
RioRico Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Limbo, California Posts: 11,263	Originally posted by Lowell Goudge that's why I suggested upgrading the kit Well, the ideal 'scape kit would be based on the 645D. [/me watches money vanish]

12-24-2011, 03:43 AM	#17
sterretje Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Roodepoort, South Africa Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,561	Why you Need a Telephoto Zoom Lens for Landscape Photography I've also seen a (kind of) landscape shot taken with 600mm + 1.4x TC on full frame. But it just depends on what you want to capture, and more importantly, how you want to capture.

12-24-2011, 04:58 AM	#18
RioRico Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Limbo, California Posts: 11,263	Originally posted by sterretje Why you Need a Telephoto Zoom Lens for Landscape Photography I've also seen a (kind of) landscape shot taken with 600mm + 1.4x TC on full frame. But it just depends on what you want to capture, and more importantly, how you want to capture. Why sure, some notable 'scapes are shot long, with looming rocks-peaks-moon-trees-whatever. And some are shot with frame-filling fisheye. That's why the DA10-17 and an old Alpa-Cosina 300/5.6 are in my usual kit. And the Lil'Bigma 170-500 has its uses. As with portraiture, any focal length may be called for. Gotta be careful about WHEN long glass is used though. Cold mornings, still air are best, at least if something resembling clarity and sharpness are desired. Ah, but if distance blur is wanted, shoot long mid-afternoon.

12-24-2011, 09:51 AM	#19
chaza01 Inactive Account Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: LONDON Posts: 136 Original Poster	I really appreciate everyone's feedback! Apropos to the UWA issue (flattening image) with the 12-24mm, would that still be a problem with the da21mm limited? Cheers

12-24-2011, 11:46 AM	#20
RioRico Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Limbo, California Posts: 11,263	Originally posted by chaza01 I really appreciate everyone's feedback! Apropos to the UWA issue (flattening image) with the 12-24mm, would that still be a problem with the da21mm limited? Cheers Flattening is a function of perspective, which is a function of len-to-subject distance. In order to fit an image into a frame with different focal-length (FL) lenses, you must be closer-in with a shorter lens, further-back with a longer lens. So with a shorter lens, the near seems large and the distant shrinks away. With a longer lens, you'd be further from the subject; the background is magnified; and this perspective tends to 'flatten' the subject -- noses protrude less, etc. So the answer: the 21Ltd, and the 12-24 or 16-45 or 17-50 or 18-55 etc @21mm, will have EXACTLY the same perspective. The zooms give you more control over perspective because you can choose among FL+distance combinations.

12-26-2011, 09:16 AM	#21
chaza01 Inactive Account Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: LONDON Posts: 136 Original Poster	Originally posted by RioRico The 10-24 is fine and I agree with all the above. I chose it over the DA12-24 and Sigma 10-20s. Yes, it's a most useful range. But as Lowell mentioned, the wide end is a bit much for 'scapes. I find 20-24mm good for 'scapes, 14-20mm for crowded streets etc, and 10-14mm for tight interiors. IMHO an ideal 'scape zoom for APS-C would be around 15-45mm. !No existe! EDIT: But 16-45 is close enough. Rethinking, I'll say that Pentax needs a good 12-48/3.5 'scape zoom. !No existe! Would you recommend the da21 ltd over the 12-24? Thanks

12-26-2011, 11:56 AM	#22
RioRico Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Limbo, California Posts: 11,263	Originally posted by chaza01 Would you recommend the da21 ltd over the 12-24? Thanks I have neither so I can only go by specifications and reputations. The DA21/3.2 Ltd (140g) is a tiny pancake that's reportedly brilliant. (I considered it for my ultralight minikit.) The DA12-24/4 (430g) is 3x heavier; my equivalent Tamron 10-24 (450g) is not cumbersome, but it's no featherweight either. The 12-24 and 21Ltd are totally different lenses. You must choose between lightweight brilliant optics (21Ltd) vs flexibility and merely good optics (12-24). What would I recommend? Depends on what you want to do. IMHO a 21Ltd on a Kr would be tres compact, a great street kit; a 12-24 on a K5 would be a great interiors kit that's also good on streets. That's over-generalizing, of course, but the differences are there.