NEW Pentax Lens Roadmap 2012/2013

audiobomber · 02-03-2012, 08:17 AM

Originally posted by normhead

Personally, I have two FF lenses, a 50 and an old 35-80. It may as well be a different camera system. I'd have to buy all new glass.

Of the lenses listed in your profile, I believe these would also cover FF: Sigma 70-300 Macro super, Sigma 120-400.

I'd be in good shape; Image A 28mm 2.8 and Kiron 28mm f2, Pentax 35mm f2, DA 400mm, 50mm f1.4, D FA 100mm macro and A*300 f4, Tamron 70-300mm Di. I'd just need a nice 24-90. I think most people here are in a similar circumstance, already have lenses.

Last edited by audiobomber; 02-03-2012 at 08:56 AM.

abacus07 · 02-03-2012, 08:42 AM

it's all speculation about FF but the fuzzy bars could be smokescreen since if they came out and put obvious FF lenses on their roadmap then their hand would be tipped. And they do include the ambiguous statement that road map may vary in response to market conditions.

jimr-pdx · 02-03-2012, 08:52 AM

Someone on DPR pulled out some Pentax patents and found a couple of matches .. but it was buried, I've lost it.

They had a 24-350 filed, I think.. that and a 12-24 wr could be fun.

audiobomber · 02-03-2012, 08:52 AM

IMO, the best move for Pentax would be a FF MILC (with EVF, of course

). The only real competition would be the Fuji Pro-1X. A FF sensor with Pentax lenses would scoop the competition and eat Fuji's lunch.

PS I was not one to participate in previous FF discussions, because Pentax was actively saying, "No full-frame". That's not been the case under Ricoh, so I no longer think this is a fruitless discussion.

Last edited by audiobomber; 02-03-2012 at 09:04 AM.

the swede · 02-03-2012, 09:15 AM

Why are people getting so excited about this?

Hoya would never allow this roadmap to be revealed, its just not their way and was always their way of keeping Pentax hands tied.

Ricoh gave the "OK" for the roadmap to be shown, with a strong * (point) that this roadmap are not final and will change.

We are looking at an old layout here, and this will be changed.

Ricoh gave us this because its their way of saying that they care and believe we deserve to now that they care

Simple.

Dont read to much into it...

But i have a strong feeling that some focal lengths in there are very accurate. And that some lens names (DA) are NOT accurate.

**Aristophanes** · 02-03-2012, 10:01 AM

Originally posted by the swede

Dont read to much into it...

2012 is baked with 3 lenses. No more. So those hoping for FF are out at least another year.

None of the DA's listed for 2013 are FF lenses. Wrong FL's.

Of course Pentax caveats the 2013 "or Later" (why capitalize Later?) is susceptible to market change. Maybe Ricoh will dump Ricoh!

Roob-N-Boots · 02-03-2012, 10:03 AM

Originally posted by Aristophanes

Except that you can't have it both ways. FA means FF in Pentax lingo and that's not used.

The DA35 2.4 functions properly on FF and I expect the new DA50 to do the same.

eddie1960 · 02-03-2012, 10:16 AM

Originally posted by the swede

Why are people getting so excited about this?

Hoya would never allow this roadmap to be revealed, its just not their way and was always their way of keeping Pentax hands tied.

Ricoh gave the "OK" for the roadmap to be shown, with a strong * (point) that this roadmap are not final and will change.

We are looking at an old layout here, and this will be changed.

Ricoh gave us this because its their way of saying that they care and believe we deserve to now that they care

Simple.

Dont read to much into it...

But i have a strong feeling that some focal lengths in there are very accurate. And that some lens names (DA) are NOT accurate.

Roadmaps can and do change - new items are added old items go out of production, planned items turn out to not cost viably.... i think some of the roadmap is fromold ideas getting new attention, others are a general response to a need they acknowledge (ie the long glass)

Certainly if there are FF plans I would imagine the lenses planned wouldn't show until a later roadmap close to release of the body with at least the 24-70 ff lens (and maybe a 70-200 2.8) dropping at the same time as the body without having been on the roadmap (like the 40xs dropped with the K-01 and the q lenses with the Q)
no point after all in giving away future marketing plans for cameras. once a ff is announce then the Ff lenses will hit the roadmap as well

As for the FA ltds don't work on digital FF i think it's a fallacy (and Ned would have been bsing to cover the no FF camera direction). There is not a chance an FA 31 vignetted on ff any more than it does on film,the image circle requirements are the same. the idea that film lenses don't perform as well on digital ff does have some validity as there is no rear coating so reflections off the rear element are a real issue. Cheap FF primes and zooms may well perform poorly on FF but they did on film as well. the best lenses though if updated for digital with rear coatings would still be top performers and even without will still perform very well
When Mamiya moved to digital a lot of users found performance issues related to the rear coatings on their old glass which spurred development of updated for digital versions.
I imagine even a lot of the excellent 645 lenses from Pentax would also benefit from the same updating process (they perform well now but may just get that extra bit of sharpness from an update)

**dadipentak** · 02-03-2012, 10:24 AM

Originally posted by miltona580

There is an autofocus teleconverter on there!

SDM to be specific does that mean it won't work with will it screw mount lenmses?

lytrytyr · 02-03-2012, 10:35 AM

Originally posted by eddie1960

As for the FA ltds don't work on digital FF i think it's a fallacy (and Ned would have been bsing to cover the no FF camera direction). There is not a chance an FA 31 vignetted on ff any more than it does on film,the image circle requirements are the same.

There is another issue besides the image circle:
the angle at which rays from the lens hit the image plane.

A full-frame sensor designed to work with heritage (wide-angle) lenses
may need to have the outer microlenses angled inwards.
This is what Leica have done with the M9,
and even what Ricoh seem to have done
with their APS-C Leica M-mount module.

SLR wide-angle lenses with a reverse-telephoto design
are better placed to work with a large digital sensor,
but the degree of "telecentricity" might be relevant.

Has anyone tried using the FA31 on a full-frame Canon digital?

**baro-nite** · 02-03-2012, 10:35 AM

Originally posted by dadipentak

SDM to be specific does that mean it won't work with will it screw mount lenmses?

I see "DA AF RC 1.4x". Where do you see SDM?

Just noticed the DA 16-45 is a no-show.

v5planet · 02-03-2012, 10:46 AM

Originally posted by lytrytyr

There is another issue besides the image circle:
the angle at which rays from the lens hit the image plane.

A full-frame sensor designed to work with heritage (wide-angle) lenses
may need to have the outer microlenses angled inwards.
This is what Leica have done with the M9,
and even what Ricoh seem to have done
with their APS-C Leica M-mount module.

SLR wide-angle lenses with a reverse-telephoto design
are better placed to work with a large digital sensor,
but the degree of "telecentricity" might be relevant.

Has anyone tried using the FA31 on a full-frame Canon digital?

There was someone on this forum who once did just that with I believe a 5D...

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-slr-lens-discussion/29917-pentax-f...-canon-5d.html

eddie1960 · 02-03-2012, 10:48 AM

Originally posted by lytrytyr

There is another issue besides the image circle:
the angle at which rays from the lens hit the image plane.

A full-frame sensor designed to work with heritage (wide-angle) lenses
may need to have the outer microlenses angled inwards.
This is what Leica have done with the M9,
and even what Ricoh seem to have done
with their APS-C Leica M-mount module.

SLR wide-angle lenses with a reverse-telephoto design
are better placed to work with a large digital sensor,
but the degree of "telecentricity" might be relevant.

Has anyone tried using the FA31 on a full-frame Canon digital?

the leica issue is unique because the lens sits so close to the film plane AFAIK . I don't believe it's been a big issue for Canon or Nikon (but the rear coating was an issue, most models have been replace now)

there are people who have used the FA's on Canon (and they should be hung for butchering them

)

audiobomber · 02-03-2012, 10:52 AM

Originally posted by baro-nite

I see "DA AF RC 1.4x". Where do you see SDM?

Just noticed the DA 16-45 is a no-show.

SDM was mentioned in the older roadmaps, not in the new. I have no clue what that might mean.

The 16-45 was discontinued in 2010, but there must have been a large stockpile.
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-news-rumors/87678-lenses-discontinued.html

lytrytyr · 02-03-2012, 11:02 AM

Originally posted by v5planet

There was someone on this forum who once did just that with I believe a 5D...

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-slr-lens-discussion/29917-pentax-f...-canon-5d.html

Thanks for the link.
Looked to be some vignetting of the sky on some of the portraits,
and PF on the leaves in Nos. 12 and 14.
The leaves on the left of No. 11 came out ugly,
and I thought a lot of the bokeh was washed out.
YMMV, but I wasn't impressed,
even allowing for the wide aperture used.
I don't know how much of the poorer IQ
would be from a lack of telecentricity, if any.

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02-03-2012, 08:17 AM	#196
audiobomber Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Sudbury, Ontario Photos: Albums Posts: 6,806	Originally posted by normhead Personally, I have two FF lenses, a 50 and an old 35-80. It may as well be a different camera system. I'd have to buy all new glass. Of the lenses listed in your profile, I believe these would also cover FF: Sigma 70-300 Macro super, Sigma 120-400. I'd be in good shape; Image A 28mm 2.8 and Kiron 28mm f2, Pentax 35mm f2, DA 400mm, 50mm f1.4, D FA 100mm macro and A300 f4, Tamron 70-300mm Di. I'd just need a nice 24-90. I think most people here are in a similar circumstance, already have lenses. Last edited by audiobomber; 02-03-2012 at 08:56 AM.*

02-03-2012, 08:42 AM	#197
abacus07 Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Taiwan Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,075	it's all speculation about FF but the fuzzy bars could be smokescreen since if they came out and put obvious FF lenses on their roadmap then their hand would be tipped. And they do include the ambiguous statement that road map may vary in response to market conditions.

02-03-2012, 08:52 AM	#198
jimr-pdx Pentaxian Join Date: May 2010 Location: now 1 hour north of PDX Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,897	Someone on DPR pulled out some Pentax patents and found a couple of matches .. but it was buried, I've lost it. They had a 24-350 filed, I think.. that and a 12-24 wr could be fun.

02-03-2012, 08:52 AM	#199
audiobomber Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Sudbury, Ontario Photos: Albums Posts: 6,806	IMO, the best move for Pentax would be a FF MILC (with EVF, of course ). The only real competition would be the Fuji Pro-1X. A FF sensor with Pentax lenses would scoop the competition and eat Fuji's lunch. PS I was not one to participate in previous FF discussions, because Pentax was actively saying, "No full-frame". That's not been the case under Ricoh, so I no longer think this is a fruitless discussion. Last edited by audiobomber; 02-03-2012 at 09:04 AM.

02-03-2012, 09:15 AM	#200
the swede Inactive Account Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 2,310	Why are people getting so excited about this? Hoya would never allow this roadmap to be revealed, its just not their way and was always their way of keeping Pentax hands tied. Ricoh gave the "OK" for the roadmap to be shown, with a strong * (point) that this roadmap are not final and will change. We are looking at an old layout here, and this will be changed. Ricoh gave us this because its their way of saying that they care and believe we deserve to now that they care Simple. Dont read to much into it... But i have a strong feeling that some focal lengths in there are very accurate. And that some lens names (DA) are NOT accurate.

02-03-2012, 10:01 AM	#201
Aristophanes Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Rankin Inlet, Nunavut Photos: Albums Posts: 3,948	Originally posted by the swede Dont read to much into it... 2012 is baked with 3 lenses. No more. So those hoping for FF are out at least another year. None of the DA's listed for 2013 are FF lenses. Wrong FL's. Of course Pentax caveats the 2013 "or Later" (why capitalize Later?) is susceptible to market change. Maybe Ricoh will dump Ricoh!

02-03-2012, 10:03 AM	#202
Roob-N-Boots Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Palm Springs CA Posts: 393	Originally posted by Aristophanes Except that you can't have it both ways. FA means FF in Pentax lingo and that's not used. The DA35 2.4 functions properly on FF and I expect the new DA50 to do the same.

02-03-2012, 10:16 AM	#203
eddie1960 Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,667	Originally posted by the swede Why are people getting so excited about this? Hoya would never allow this roadmap to be revealed, its just not their way and was always their way of keeping Pentax hands tied. Ricoh gave the "OK" for the roadmap to be shown, with a strong * (point) that this roadmap are not final and will change. We are looking at an old layout here, and this will be changed. Ricoh gave us this because its their way of saying that they care and believe we deserve to now that they care Simple. Dont read to much into it... But i have a strong feeling that some focal lengths in there are very accurate. And that some lens names (DA) are NOT accurate. Roadmaps can and do change - new items are added old items go out of production, planned items turn out to not cost viably.... i think some of the roadmap is fromold ideas getting new attention, others are a general response to a need they acknowledge (ie the long glass) Certainly if there are FF plans I would imagine the lenses planned wouldn't show until a later roadmap close to release of the body with at least the 24-70 ff lens (and maybe a 70-200 2.8) dropping at the same time as the body without having been on the roadmap (like the 40xs dropped with the K-01 and the q lenses with the Q) no point after all in giving away future marketing plans for cameras. once a ff is announce then the Ff lenses will hit the roadmap as well As for the FA ltds don't work on digital FF i think it's a fallacy (and Ned would have been bsing to cover the no FF camera direction). There is not a chance an FA 31 vignetted on ff any more than it does on film,the image circle requirements are the same. the idea that film lenses don't perform as well on digital ff does have some validity as there is no rear coating so reflections off the rear element are a real issue. Cheap FF primes and zooms may well perform poorly on FF but they did on film as well. the best lenses though if updated for digital with rear coatings would still be top performers and even without will still perform very well When Mamiya moved to digital a lot of users found performance issues related to the rear coatings on their old glass which spurred development of updated for digital versions. I imagine even a lot of the excellent 645 lenses from Pentax would also benefit from the same updating process (they perform well now but may just get that extra bit of sharpness from an update)

02-03-2012, 10:24 AM	#204
dadipentak Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Baltimore, Maryland Photos: Gallery Posts: 11,590	Originally posted by miltona580 There is an autofocus teleconverter on there! SDM to be specific does that mean it won't work with will it screw mount lenmses?

02-03-2012, 10:35 AM	#205
lytrytyr Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2011 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,310	Originally posted by eddie1960 As for the FA ltds don't work on digital FF i think it's a fallacy (and Ned would have been bsing to cover the no FF camera direction). There is not a chance an FA 31 vignetted on ff any more than it does on film,the image circle requirements are the same. There is another issue besides the image circle: the angle at which rays from the lens hit the image plane. A full-frame sensor designed to work with heritage (wide-angle) lenses may need to have the outer microlenses angled inwards. This is what Leica have done with the M9, and even what Ricoh seem to have done with their APS-C Leica M-mount module. SLR wide-angle lenses with a reverse-telephoto design are better placed to work with a large digital sensor, but the degree of "telecentricity" might be relevant. Has anyone tried using the FA31 on a full-frame Canon digital?

02-03-2012, 10:35 AM	#206
baro-nite Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: North Carolina, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,295	Originally posted by dadipentak SDM to be specific does that mean it won't work with will it screw mount lenmses? I see "DA AF RC 1.4x". Where do you see SDM? Just noticed the DA 16-45 is a no-show.

02-03-2012, 10:46 AM	#207
v5planet Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Seattle Photos: Albums Posts: 1,915	Originally posted by lytrytyr There is another issue besides the image circle: the angle at which rays from the lens hit the image plane. A full-frame sensor designed to work with heritage (wide-angle) lenses may need to have the outer microlenses angled inwards. This is what Leica have done with the M9, and even what Ricoh seem to have done with their APS-C Leica M-mount module. SLR wide-angle lenses with a reverse-telephoto design are better placed to work with a large digital sensor, but the degree of "telecentricity" might be relevant. Has anyone tried using the FA31 on a full-frame Canon digital? There was someone on this forum who once did just that with I believe a 5D... https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-slr-lens-discussion/29917-pentax-f...-canon-5d.html

02-03-2012, 10:48 AM	#208
eddie1960 Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,667	Originally posted by lytrytyr There is another issue besides the image circle: the angle at which rays from the lens hit the image plane. A full-frame sensor designed to work with heritage (wide-angle) lenses may need to have the outer microlenses angled inwards. This is what Leica have done with the M9, and even what Ricoh seem to have done with their APS-C Leica M-mount module. SLR wide-angle lenses with a reverse-telephoto design are better placed to work with a large digital sensor, but the degree of "telecentricity" might be relevant. Has anyone tried using the FA31 on a full-frame Canon digital? the leica issue is unique because the lens sits so close to the film plane AFAIK . I don't believe it's been a big issue for Canon or Nikon (but the rear coating was an issue, most models have been replace now) there are people who have used the FA's on Canon (and they should be hung for butchering them )

02-03-2012, 10:52 AM	#209
audiobomber Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Sudbury, Ontario Photos: Albums Posts: 6,806	Originally posted by baro-nite I see "DA AF RC 1.4x". Where do you see SDM? Just noticed the DA 16-45 is a no-show. SDM was mentioned in the older roadmaps, not in the new. I have no clue what that might mean. The 16-45 was discontinued in 2010, but there must have been a large stockpile. https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-news-rumors/87678-lenses-discontinued.html

02-03-2012, 11:02 AM	#210
lytrytyr Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2011 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,310	Originally posted by v5planet There was someone on this forum who once did just that with I believe a 5D... https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-slr-lens-discussion/29917-pentax-f...-canon-5d.html Thanks for the link. Looked to be some vignetting of the sky on some of the portraits, and PF on the leaves in Nos. 12 and 14. The leaves on the left of No. 11 came out ugly, and I thought a lot of the bokeh was washed out. YMMV, but I wasn't impressed, even allowing for the wide aperture used. I don't know how much of the poorer IQ would be from a lack of telecentricity, if any.