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02-03-2012, 06:10 PM   #226
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenafein Quote
Eliminating the mirror and the OVF, freeing up all that space and complexity. The way people go on and on about FF on this site, I think Pentax would have a riot on their hands come pre-order time. I Imagine this camera would also be much cheaper than even the Sony A850. $1500 for a full frame sensor platform basically. That premium over the k-01 would likely cover the sensor price difference. It wouldn't be a perfect system, but I think it would satisfy a lot of people here. It wouldn't be a pro system, and I don't think it will happen. I certainly would pay $1500 and buy one limited prime and then buy the other two over the next two years, many have a much higher budget than me.
What complexity?

You still need a physical shutter which is by far the most complex system, followed by the AF systems and then the screwmount motor.

Mirror assemblies are complex, but have been honed for decades to be very durable and damped. In fact, the metric for durability is not the mirror usually but the shutter. The cost difference is probably much smaller than what people think between a DSLR and mirrorless. Certainly not enough to make up the difference between the current low-end FF (the D700 at $2,700) and the $1,500 camera you are proposing.

02-03-2012, 06:29 PM   #227
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There's also the pentaprism [and focusing screen] that gets removed along with the mirror. I'd say the mirror, screen and that prism are a large chunk of the camera wouldn't you? If that could be replaced with a OLED hi-res EVF then surely that would go a long way to cut manufacturing and assembly costs. People seem to forget that all of these companies (except for Olympus) are in it to make an honest profit and cost cutting through design decisions can help that along nicely.
02-03-2012, 07:20 PM   #228
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QuoteOriginally posted by bossa Quote
There's also the pentaprism [and focusing screen] that gets removed along with the mirror. I'd say the mirror, screen and that prism are a large chunk of the camera wouldn't you? If that could be replaced with a OLED hi-res EVF then surely that would go a long way to cut manufacturing and assembly costs. People seem to forget that all of these companies (except for Olympus) are in it to make an honest profit and cost cutting through design decisions can help that along nicely.
Someone still has to assemble the OLED EVF, don't they?

Aligning the mirror, prism, and screen takes labour, but you'd be surprised at how little labour per unit it actually takes. And likely there are no costly rare earth metals in the mirror system OFV's and so on.

By far the best way to make money is to amortize your capital over the long term, which is what the SLR system is capable of doing.
02-03-2012, 07:30 PM   #229
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I would assume that a robot could completely construct the actual OLED 'screen' but that the module would probably have to be assembled and installed by a person.

Here's a news article on the demise of Kodak: http://www.smh.com.au/digital-life/cameras/how-kodak-squandered-every-single...123-1qcui.html

Any company which doesn't transition to, and embrace, new technologies is at risk of failure it seems.

02-03-2012, 08:46 PM   #230
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nothing for the 645D!

oh well I'll just keep filling up on ebay :-p
02-04-2012, 01:07 PM   #231
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QuoteOriginally posted by JinDesu Quote
It'd also be nice to have one Pentax lens to rule them all in it's focal length.. something that just beats everything else, Zeiss, Leica, Canon, in that one length.

/*****envy

dangit, it won't let me write that five letter word that rhymes with dennis.
"It began with the assembly of the Great Lenses. A DA 50 for the portraitists, to photograph the fairest of all beings. A 550mm DA Telephoto for the wildlife and telephoto shooters and their gimbal heads. A DA 18-250 for the travelers in their desire for maximum flexibility. For within these lenses were bound the sharpness and the rendering to govern light into beautiful images. But they were all of them deceived, for a new lens was made. In the land of Japan, in the fires of Mt. Fuji, the Dark Lord RIcoh forged in secret, a master lens to control all others. And into this combination was poured all the sharpness, all the bokeh, color, and rendering to dominate the entire interchangeable lens camera market.

One lens to rule them all..." from the Book of Pentax, Chapter 1

In all seriousness, I hope that the DA 550 is an f4 or 4.5 if just to match the Sigma. Heck, I hope they bring out a DA 550 f5.6 too to make things more affordable.
02-04-2012, 01:31 PM   #232
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This is an interesting road map. Not specific but leaves enough to have a sense of expectation and remain interested amidst all the complaints of an absence of a roadmap.

The DA 50 would be an f/1.4 to keep a fast fifty in the current lineup. The DA* zoom will help Pentax recover from the issues faced by their DA*16-50.
The DA superzoom looks to be like an 18-250 of sorts since it was so popular before but had to be discontinued for some reason.
The DA Limited zoom is a first and I'll wait to see what that one's like.
The DA Wide zoom also looks to be something like the 12-35 WR that had been speculated about previously. Sounds like a good one as well.
02-04-2012, 01:43 PM   #233
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QuoteOriginally posted by bossa Quote
There's also the pentaprism [and focusing screen] that gets removed along with the mirror. I'd say the mirror, screen and that prism are a large chunk of the camera wouldn't you? If that could be replaced with a OLED hi-res EVF then surely that would go a long way to cut manufacturing and assembly costs. People seem to forget that all of these companies (except for Olympus) are in it to make an honest profit and cost cutting through design decisions can help that along nicely.
Yeah... Like Fuji did with the 2300 dollar point-and-shoot.

02-04-2012, 02:20 PM   #234
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
Yeah... Like Fuji did with the 2300 dollar point-and-shoot.
You must indeed be confused, because last time I checked the Fuji camera that costs that amount (including a first class fast lens, by the way) has a viewfinder, a unique sensor, no AA filter, proper direct control dials and a host of other features that set it apart. If you think this is a point'n'shoot you need to use a few more confused smilies in all your posts.
02-04-2012, 03:29 PM   #235
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Of course Pentax-Ricoh has room to change the Roadmap, it's not a contract for gosh sakes.

It would seem obvious to me, as someone that does not have the technical understanding of the inner workings of the lenses and sensors that many here do but who has watched Ricoh operate in the past, that they are telling us VASTLY more about what to expect than Hoya ever dreamed of telling us as consumers: 1) they have released a roadmap, 2) they have announced their intent to rehire those engineers/designers so stupidly released by Hoya, 3) they have green lighted projects that were apparently held up for some time by Hoya, and 4) their marketing people (those with any clue outside the US that is) have said repeatedly that there are more surprises coming.

If you want a FF camera this instant - there's the door, please sell me your Pentax lenses on the way out.
02-04-2012, 05:56 PM   #236
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QuoteOriginally posted by rparmar Quote
The most obvious things in the world.

Where is a 24mm f/2 to give the classic 35mm field of view?

Where is a 28mm f/2 to give the normal (43mm) field of view?
.

Hardly anyone buy prime lenses in this range anymore. The Limited zoom will probably cover this range...
02-04-2012, 06:04 PM   #237
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QuoteOriginally posted by leeonmaui Quote
oh well I'll just keep filling up on ebay :-p
There is a least one new 645 lens coming this year. It is a short telephoto. My guess that it is a macro lens...
02-04-2012, 06:20 PM   #238
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
Hardly anyone buy prime lenses in this range anymore.
Well, they would if Pentax made them!

Check Ron Hendrik's poll, or loco's current thread.
I bought two primes in the 24-26mm range last year,
and they both see a lot of use.
Now Samyang has just come out with a new one.
02-04-2012, 06:33 PM   #239
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
Hardly anyone buy prime lenses in this range anymore. The Limited zoom will probably cover this range...
What? Both Canon and Nikon offer a fast and slow option at 24 and 28mm. I don't have lens sales info but I doubt they each have 3-4 lenses in this range if they aren't selling. Pentax is smaller but it has zero unless you count the $900+ FA31 or the DA21 pancake. I think bringing back a digital version of the FA24/2 would sell well while not hurting the DA21 or FA31 sales.

I have to admit that there isn't much on the new roadmap that I would buy. My wishlist remains largely the same. DA15 (have), upgrade the DA40 to the FA43 and add the DFA100macro. A 24mm lens would look very nice in between the 15/43. The * zoom does interest me since it would be a great hiking/sightseeing lens (although heavy).
02-04-2012, 10:21 PM   #240
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Was thinking.... not my best feature, to think.... but i thought...

In 2013, if looking at the radmap, we will have a whole lot of normal zooms designated DA.

DA 18-55
DA 17-70 (no sign of being disc?)
DA 18-135
DA* 16-50
DA "High magnification lens"
DA* "Zoom"
DA "Wide zoom"
DA "Zoom limited"

now.... Either Pentax are going for the top at having most APS-C zooms in the market, or......

well.... lets just wait and se how the will name that fifty
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