What happened to Voigtlander?

Adam · 02-10-2012, 01:56 PM

It's says you can still get the 90mm, but I would ask B&H on the forum to check:
Voigtlander 90mm F/3.5 SL II APO-Lanthar Lens BA290K B&H Photo

Yup, they decided to stop making these for Pentax, sadly. A FF won't come out this year, but I would be willing to bet that the same can't be said about 2013.

Adam
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stevebrot · 02-10-2012, 02:11 PM

Originally posted by eddie1960

manual K mount lens is no longer subject to copyright control

Copyright? Perhaps you mean patent? It was my understanding that Pentax, while holding the patent for the Zeiss/Pentax design, released usage rights for both body and lens from the beginning. This was extended for lens-only with the later types. That explains why non-Pentax K-mount cameras were on the market from the very beginning.

Steve

**jeffshaddix** · 02-10-2012, 02:15 PM

Adam, do you not put any credence in the May-Sept FF announcement as suggested in the photorumors article (the one where they first mentioned K-01 being a brick)? Of course the release may still be '13.

BTW, the CZ 25/2 is looking sensational, here's hoping in a couple years we can pick up a K version.

**jpzk** · 02-10-2012, 02:16 PM

Originally posted by jeffshaddix

He's refering to the 90mm lanthar (which I had forgotten was a lanthar). A good lens, but perhaps a bit slow for the price...

Ah! OK. I misread the post then.

Still, the 125 APO is quite a beast, isn't it?

JP

**jeffshaddix** · 02-10-2012, 02:20 PM

Originally posted by jpzk

Ah! OK. I misread the post then.

Still, the 125 APO is quite a beast, isn't it?

JP

Possibly the best lens ever made for that FL IMHO. I consider it the only lens that could replace my Bokina.

(Of course this is ridiculously subjective)

dj_saunter · 02-10-2012, 03:55 PM

I wish I had gotten their 180mm f4 Lanthar a couple years ago when it sold for like 400-500$. I had to wait like 5 months to find my Pentax-A 20mm f2.8 but the voigtlander is impossible to find. And if you find it, usually over 800$.

I want it badly.

**RobA_Oz** · 02-10-2012, 05:38 PM

Originally posted by eddie1960

manual K mount lens is no longer subject to copyright control (later A and AF versions are) same with the nikons they made
I'm not sure if the basic EF Mount is Public domain yet, but maybe they just reverse engineered it like everyone else (simpler to since no need to engineer af controls)
Cosina also made a K mount SLR or 2 fully manual (still may actually)

I think Cosina is adapting their business model to more modern realities now (when they started with K mount Pentax had much bigger share and requirements are very similar to a Nikon Manual focus (you can actually make the nikon fit easily with no mods on a pentax body but a small mod will help it lock)

I'm sure you're right about market realities, but the SL versions of the K-mount Voigtlanders were auto-aperture, and the SLII versions also included lens information, so, was there anything else needed to make them more completely like the Pentax A lenses, and therefore subject to copyright or patent control, as you suggest?

Frogfish · 02-11-2012, 07:44 AM

Originally posted by slackercruster

I was worried they sell knockoffs.

And where have you seen these knock-off lenses ? I have lived in China for 16 years and have never seen a knock-off lens nor have I ever heard of a knock-off lens. It's not something you can easily copy like a LV scarf !

stevebrot · 02-11-2012, 12:55 PM

Originally posted by Frogfish

It's not something you can easily copy like a LV scarf !

Ha! Ha! Or a Gitzo tipod...

The point is well, taken, however. Generally, complex niche products are not worth the effort.

Steve

creampuff · 02-11-2012, 08:34 PM

I know the local Voigtlander agent who know the folks at the Cosina factory well. According to him, Cosina is not a big company and they have limited production capacity. The lion's share of Cosina's business is making projector lenses and apparently they are the market leader.

When the Voigtlander SL range were first introduced, they didn't sell particularly well. It took some time for Pentax and other mount users to discover the excellent optical performance of these lenses. For the most part most Canikon users were already mostly using AF lenses, so for many the manual focus only lenses didn't get much traction. For Pentax users, most don't know about Voigtlander lenses, aren't prepared to spend the cost of a Voigtlander or have difficulty getting access to one. By the time the Voigtlanders achieved cult like status, production run was already coming to an end as Cosina was already commited to produce the Zeiss Z series lenses. Much as 35mm manual focus SLR is preferred by some, it nonetheless is a dwindling market when compared to AF, the rangefinder or the mirrorless segments which is why the Voigtlander SL range were discontinued.

slackercruster · 02-11-2012, 08:39 PM

Originally posted by Frogfish

And where have you seen these knock-off lenses ? I have lived in China for 16 years and have never seen a knock-off lens nor have I ever heard of a knock-off lens. It's not something you can easily copy like a LV scarf !

Look at the fake slabbed coins they make in China. They fool the experts. China fakes everything.

http://coins.about.com/od/coingrading/ig/Fake-PCGS-Slab-Diagnostics/

slackercruster · 02-11-2012, 08:41 PM

Originally posted by creampuff

I know the local Voigtlander agent who know the folks at the Cosina factory well. According to him, Cosina is not a big company and they have limited production capacity. The lion's share of Cosina's business is making projector lenses and apparently they are the market leader.

When the Voigtlander SL range were first introduced, they didn't sell particularly well. It took some time for Pentax and other mount users to discover the excellent optical performance of these lenses. For the most part most Canikon users were already mostly using AF lenses, so for many the manual focus only lenses didn't get much traction. For Pentax users, most don't know about Voigtlander lenses, aren't prepared to spend the cost of a Voigtlander or have difficulty getting access to one. By the time the Voigtlanders achieved cult like status, production run was already coming to an end as Cosina was already commited to produce the Zeiss Z series lenses. Much as 35mm manual focus SLR is preferred by some, it nonetheless is a dwindling market when compared to AF, the rangefinder or the mirrorless segments which is why the Voigtlander SL range were discontinued.

What happened to Zeiss? Did they stop making lenses too? Cosina is making everything?

lytrytyr · 02-11-2012, 09:00 PM

Originally posted by creampuff

Much as 35mm manual focus SLR is preferred by some, it nonetheless is a dwindling market when compared to AF.

Video seems to have reversed that trend to a certain extent. Cosina/Zeiss are certainly developing new lenses for DSLRs, like the 25mm/2 and 35mm/1.4.

ginsbu · 02-11-2012, 09:25 PM

There wasn't any reason for Zeiss to make lenses for Canon until they were ready to provide EF-mount support for auto-aperture, etc. Without that, Canon owners would have gained nothing over using the ZF versions with an adapter, so Zeiss didn't bother. (Apparently, the EF-mount is more difficult to support than F-mount; Samyang have said as much in explaining why they have CPU-enhanced versions of their lenses for Nikon but not yet for Canon.)

Zeiss does still manufacture selected products in Germany, mostly high-end and cine stuff I believe.

Hopefully, the Ricoh takeover will encourage some of the lens manufacturers to make K-mount versions again.

**jac** · 02-11-2012, 09:29 PM

FWIW, try this website. No idea about reliability but they are listing some K mounts at, for Voigtlander, reasonable prices. I did get a 40mm and a 58mm here on the forum - they're fine lenses. Tempted periodically by the 90mm but maybe Ken Rockwell has given me sober second thought on his review of the CaNikon (literally) version.

02-11-2012, 08:39 PM	#26
slackercruster Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: NE, USA Posts: 1,302 Original Poster	Originally posted by Frogfish And where have you seen these knock-off lenses ? I have lived in China for 16 years and have never seen a knock-off lens nor have I ever heard of a knock-off lens. It's not something you can easily copy like a LV scarf ! Look at the fake slabbed coins they make in China. They fool the experts. China fakes everything. http://coins.about.com/od/coingrading/ig/Fake-PCGS-Slab-Diagnostics/ Last edited by slackercruster; 02-11-2012 at 08:46 PM.

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02-10-2012, 01:56 PM	#16
Adam Administrator Site Webmaster Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Arizona Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 51,595	It's says you can still get the 90mm, but I would ask B&H on the forum to check: Voigtlander 90mm F/3.5 SL II APO-Lanthar Lens BA290K B&H Photo Yup, they decided to stop making these for Pentax, sadly. A FF won't come out this year, but I would be willing to bet that the same can't be said about 2013. Adam PentaxForums.com Webmaster (Site Usage Guide \| Site Help \| My Photography) PentaxForums.com server and development costs are user-supported. You can help cover these costs by donating or purchasing one of our Pentax eBooks. Or, buy your photo gear from our affiliates, Adorama, B&H Photo, KEH, or Topaz Labs, and get FREE Marketplace access - click here to see how! Trusted Pentax retailers:

02-10-2012, 02:11 PM	#17
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by eddie1960 manual K mount lens is no longer subject to copyright control Copyright? Perhaps you mean patent? It was my understanding that Pentax, while holding the patent for the Zeiss/Pentax design, released usage rights for both body and lens from the beginning. This was extended for lens-only with the later types. That explains why non-Pentax K-mount cameras were on the market from the very beginning. Steve

02-10-2012, 02:15 PM	#18
jeffshaddix Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,473	Adam, do you not put any credence in the May-Sept FF announcement as suggested in the photorumors article (the one where they first mentioned K-01 being a brick)? Of course the release may still be '13. BTW, the CZ 25/2 is looking sensational, here's hoping in a couple years we can pick up a K version.

02-10-2012, 02:16 PM	#19
jpzk Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Québec Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,251	Originally posted by jeffshaddix He's refering to the 90mm lanthar (which I had forgotten was a lanthar). A good lens, but perhaps a bit slow for the price... Ah! OK. I misread the post then. Still, the 125 APO is quite a beast, isn't it? JP

02-10-2012, 02:20 PM	#20
jeffshaddix Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,473	Originally posted by jpzk Ah! OK. I misread the post then. Still, the 125 APO is quite a beast, isn't it? JP Possibly the best lens ever made for that FL IMHO. I consider it the only lens that could replace my Bokina. (Of course this is ridiculously subjective)

02-10-2012, 03:55 PM	#21
dj_saunter Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 209	I wish I had gotten their 180mm f4 Lanthar a couple years ago when it sold for like 400-500$. I had to wait like 5 months to find my Pentax-A 20mm f2.8 but the voigtlander is impossible to find. And if you find it, usually over 800$. I want it badly.

02-10-2012, 05:38 PM	#22
RobA_Oz Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Tasmania, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,197	Originally posted by eddie1960 manual K mount lens is no longer subject to copyright control (later A and AF versions are) same with the nikons they made I'm not sure if the basic EF Mount is Public domain yet, but maybe they just reverse engineered it like everyone else (simpler to since no need to engineer af controls) Cosina also made a K mount SLR or 2 fully manual (still may actually) I think Cosina is adapting their business model to more modern realities now (when they started with K mount Pentax had much bigger share and requirements are very similar to a Nikon Manual focus (you can actually make the nikon fit easily with no mods on a pentax body but a small mod will help it lock) I'm sure you're right about market realities, but the SL versions of the K-mount Voigtlanders were auto-aperture, and the SLII versions also included lens information, so, was there anything else needed to make them more completely like the Pentax A lenses, and therefore subject to copyright or patent control, as you suggest?

02-11-2012, 07:44 AM	#23
Frogfish Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Shanghai Posts: 4,490	Originally posted by slackercruster I was worried they sell knockoffs. And where have you seen these knock-off lenses ? I have lived in China for 16 years and have never seen a knock-off lens nor have I ever heard of a knock-off lens. It's not something you can easily copy like a LV scarf !

02-11-2012, 12:55 PM	#24
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by Frogfish It's not something you can easily copy like a LV scarf ! Ha! Ha! Or a Gitzo tipod... The point is well, taken, however. Generally, complex niche products are not worth the effort. Steve

02-11-2012, 08:34 PM	#25
creampuff Veteran Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Singapore Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,953	I know the local Voigtlander agent who know the folks at the Cosina factory well. According to him, Cosina is not a big company and they have limited production capacity. The lion's share of Cosina's business is making projector lenses and apparently they are the market leader. When the Voigtlander SL range were first introduced, they didn't sell particularly well. It took some time for Pentax and other mount users to discover the excellent optical performance of these lenses. For the most part most Canikon users were already mostly using AF lenses, so for many the manual focus only lenses didn't get much traction. For Pentax users, most don't know about Voigtlander lenses, aren't prepared to spend the cost of a Voigtlander or have difficulty getting access to one. By the time the Voigtlanders achieved cult like status, production run was already coming to an end as Cosina was already commited to produce the Zeiss Z series lenses. Much as 35mm manual focus SLR is preferred by some, it nonetheless is a dwindling market when compared to AF, the rangefinder or the mirrorless segments which is why the Voigtlander SL range were discontinued.

02-11-2012, 08:41 PM	#27
slackercruster Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: NE, USA Posts: 1,302 Original Poster	Originally posted by creampuff I know the local Voigtlander agent who know the folks at the Cosina factory well. According to him, Cosina is not a big company and they have limited production capacity. The lion's share of Cosina's business is making projector lenses and apparently they are the market leader. When the Voigtlander SL range were first introduced, they didn't sell particularly well. It took some time for Pentax and other mount users to discover the excellent optical performance of these lenses. For the most part most Canikon users were already mostly using AF lenses, so for many the manual focus only lenses didn't get much traction. For Pentax users, most don't know about Voigtlander lenses, aren't prepared to spend the cost of a Voigtlander or have difficulty getting access to one. By the time the Voigtlanders achieved cult like status, production run was already coming to an end as Cosina was already commited to produce the Zeiss Z series lenses. Much as 35mm manual focus SLR is preferred by some, it nonetheless is a dwindling market when compared to AF, the rangefinder or the mirrorless segments which is why the Voigtlander SL range were discontinued. What happened to Zeiss? Did they stop making lenses too? Cosina is making everything?

02-11-2012, 09:00 PM	#28
lytrytyr Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2011 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,310	Originally posted by creampuff Much as 35mm manual focus SLR is preferred by some, it nonetheless is a dwindling market when compared to AF. Video seems to have reversed that trend to a certain extent. Cosina/Zeiss are certainly developing new lenses for DSLRs, like the 25mm/2 and 35mm/1.4.

02-11-2012, 09:25 PM	#29
ginsbu New Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: NYC Posts: 16	There wasn't any reason for Zeiss to make lenses for Canon until they were ready to provide EF-mount support for auto-aperture, etc. Without that, Canon owners would have gained nothing over using the ZF versions with an adapter, so Zeiss didn't bother. (Apparently, the EF-mount is more difficult to support than F-mount; Samyang have said as much in explaining why they have CPU-enhanced versions of their lenses for Nikon but not yet for Canon.) Zeiss does still manufacture selected products in Germany, mostly high-end and cine stuff I believe. Hopefully, the Ricoh takeover will encourage some of the lens manufacturers to make K-mount versions again.

02-11-2012, 09:29 PM	#30
jac Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Clyde River, Nunavut, Canada Posts: 2,364	FWIW, try this website. No idea about reliability but they are listing some K mounts at, for Voigtlander, reasonable prices. I did get a 40mm and a 58mm here on the forum - they're fine lenses. Tempted periodically by the 90mm but maybe Ken Rockwell has given me sober second thought on his review of the CaNikon (literally) version.