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03-29-2012, 07:55 AM   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by spade111 Quote
Actually - Nikon did make a 13mm super wide lens - which was technically their most difficult to manufacture, and the most expensive lens in their catalogue (I think after inflation etc.) ever:

Nikon 13mm

That thing has virtually zero curvilinear distortion.... To reproduce that field of view on APS - we would need an ~8mm. Doesn't sigma make an 8-16mm or something these days?
As usual, Mr. Rockwell's review is full with approximations and inaccuracies. In fact, this 13mm Nikkor is far from being Nikon's greatest lens. It has indeed a very low distortion on the edges of the frame, but it does distort in the center. It also exhibits plenty of chromatic aberrations and is not particularly sharp compared to modern superwides...

QuoteOriginally posted by Ken Rockwell:
The 13mm is Nikon's greatest lens. It is Nikon's greatest lens because not only is it big and supremely expensive, it is Nikon's, and perhaps photography's, greatest lens because it lets us make photographs we can make no other way.
There are bigger, rarer, more expensive, more unique and "greater" Nikon lenses. For example, the Nikkor 6/2.8 (5.2kg on the scale, 220° FOV), or the 1200-1700/5.6-8 (only 15 ever made,16kg and a length of over 800mm)...

Here's the 13/5.6 with a D300:


Image Credit: Ken Rockwell

Here's the 6/2.8 with a Nikon FM:


Picture Credit: Dr Klaus Schmitt

And the 1200-1700/5.6-8 with a D3:


Picture Credit: Mal Langsdon - Reuters

QuoteOriginally posted by Ken Rockwell:
The Nikon 13mm is the world's widest non-distorting professional SLR lens ever made, by anyone, in any format.
And what about the Sigma 12-24/4.5-5.6 and the Voigtländer 12/5.6 -- this lens was initially designed for rangefinder cameras, but there is also a version in Nikon mount for Nikon SLRs? Not pro enough?

QuoteOriginally posted by ="Ken Rockwell":
Actual (Design) Focal Length:13.3mm. You're not being cheated; Nikon's 50mm lenses are really 51.6mm, for instance.
I don't really get the point: 51.6mm instead of 50mm is a 3.2% increase, while 13.3mm instead of 13mm is a 2.3% increase, not much of a difference!

QuoteOriginally posted by Ken Rockwell:
If you wish to make a printout for personal use, you are granted one-time permission only if you PayPal me $5.00 per printout or part thereof. Thank you!
No thanks!

Cheers!

Abbazz

03-29-2012, 08:12 AM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by Abbazz Quote
As usual, Mr. Rockwell's review is full with approximations and inaccuracies. In fact, this 13mm Nikkor is far from being Nikon's greatest lens. It has indeed a very low distortion on the edges of the frame, but it does distort in the center. It also exhibits plenty of chromatic aberrations and is not particularly sharp compared to modern superwides...


There are bigger, rarer, more expensive, more unique and "greater" Nikon lenses. For example, the Nikkor 6/2.8 (5.2kg on the scale, 220° FOV), or the 1200-1700/5.6-8 (only 15 ever made,16kg and a length of over 800mm)...

Here's the 13/5.6 with a D300:


Image Credit: Ken Rockwell

Here's the 6/2.8 with a Nikon FM:


Picture Credit: Dr Klaus Schmitt

And the 1200-1700/5.6-8 with a D3:


Picture Credit: Mal Langsdon - Reuters


And what about the Sigma 12-24/4.5-5.6 and the Voigtländer 12/5.6 -- this lens was initially designed for rangefinder cameras, but there is also a version in Nikon mount for Nikon SLRs? Not pro enough?


I don't really get the point: 51.6mm instead of 50mm is a 3.2% increase, while 13.3mm instead of 13mm is a 2.3% increase, not much of a difference!


No thanks!

Cheers!

Abbazz
LOL, Using Rockwell as proof of anything is a bit of a joke. the only thing he proves is he's good at marketing himself to feed his family
03-29-2012, 08:18 AM   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
LOL, Using Rockwell as proof of anything is a bit of a joke. the only thing he proves is he's good at marketing himself to feed his family
and how!
03-29-2012, 08:44 AM   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by Abbazz Quote
No thanks!
Ken Rockwell does have a growing family to support!

03-29-2012, 10:13 AM   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by zapp Quote
3) Cameras with mirrors in the light path are about to fade out - why introduce retrofocus lenses for dinosauer cameras. Manufacturers will wait for cameras without mirrors that allow for much easier optical design of wide angle lenses.
You're forgetting that with digital sensor the light needs to hit the sensor as straight as possible when you make the register smaller the angle increase so it gets very difficult to get the edges sharp with wide angle lenses, you can see this with the NEX cameras.
So you need to find a goood balance, most likely taking the focal length of the normal lens might work quite well.
For APS-C that would mean a register of around 30mm.
03-29-2012, 06:24 PM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by lytrytyr Quote
Retrofocus wide-angle lenses do a better job of covering a digital sensor.
As the K-01 shows, you don't have to have a mirror flopping down between the two,
but mirrorless doesn't yet work well enough for serious action photography anyway.
Are there many people doing action photography with wide angle lenses? How do their photos look like?
03-29-2012, 08:30 PM   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Quote
Are there many people doing action photography with wide angle lenses? How do their photos look like?
As I understand them, these questions seem to be confusing two separate issues:
1. Short-register mirrorless cameras (especially without angled microlenses) do not play well with wide-angle lenses, and
2. Mirrorless cameras generally don't update the view well enough for effective action photography.

But to answer the questions anyway: "Yes," and "It depends on the photographer."

Laurentiu, there's a nice example (with a 28mm lens) three posts below one of your posts (03-15-11, 05:59 PM), in this thread:
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-dslr-discussion/109475-pros-talkin...pentax-11.html
03-29-2012, 09:06 PM   #53
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QuoteOriginally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Quote
Are there many people doing action photography with wide angle lenses? How do their photos look like?
I seem to recall that fisheyes are de rigeur for shooting skateboarders. Rear-facing surfboard-mounted lenses are usually ultrawide too. So yes, UWAs are used for action photography.

At the risk of seeming pedantic: Various action sports can be shot from distances ranging from VERY close to VERY far, and the distance determines the appropriate focal length. Field and arena and speedway sports usually require standing back a bit. Other sports allow close approaches. As for lens AOVs, I recall some classic boxing photos shot with fisheye lenses suspended directly over the rings. Also bicycling photos shot with fisheyes mounted on the handlebars. We don't always need a 500/2.8 to shoot sports.

03-30-2012, 02:30 PM   #54
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QuoteOriginally posted by Frogfish Quote
Buy yourself a FF camera
Hysterical I knew that was coming. But you are right. An A or K 15mm or 18mm on film is awesome. They would rock on full frame digital.
03-30-2012, 04:46 PM   #55
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Of course even a used a15 sells for 1400-1600 add a ff body you can adapt it to a used 5d 900-1000, used 5d2 1500-1800

or do it really cheap and grab an eos mount samyang 14 2.8 and a 5D - less than the A15 on it's own and wider
03-30-2012, 10:44 PM   #56
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QuoteOriginally posted by lytrytyr Quote
As I understand them, these questions seem to be confusing two separate issues:
Your use of "anyway" following a comment on wide angle lenses is what linked them - the subject of the thread being ultra wide angle lenses, saying that "mirrorless doesn't yet work well enough for serious action photography anyway" seems to imply that action shots are the main use of wide angle lenses. Thanks for clarifying your intent.

QuoteOriginally posted by lytrytyr Quote
Laurentiu, there's a nice example (with a 28mm lens) three posts below one of your posts (03-15-11, 05:59 PM), in this thread:
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-dslr-discussion/109475-pros-talkin...pentax-11.html
To be picky, that 28 lens is not operating as a wide angle there - it is just a normal lens on APS-C sensors. BTW, you can link to posts directly using the permalink from the post number at the top right, like this.

QuoteOriginally posted by RioRico Quote
I seem to recall that fisheyes are de rigeur for shooting skateboarders. Rear-facing surfboard-mounted lenses are usually ultrawide too. So yes, UWAs are used for action photography.
Yes, but they don't define "serious action photography" - that is what I was getting at. When someone says action photography, the first image in my head is not that of a camera strapped to a bicycle.
06-27-2012, 01:38 PM   #57
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QuoteOriginally posted by séamuis Quote
there is a very nice ultra wide, made by Tokina, but it isn't available in Kmount.

NEW TOKINA 11-16mm F2.8 AT-X 116 DX Pro ZOOM Lens LESS ADDITTIONAL $40.00 REBATE | eBay
06-27-2012, 01:54 PM   #58
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I strongly suspect that is an error by the ebay seller.

It sees as per Tokina it is only available for Canon and Nikon and is aps-c.

Tokina
06-27-2012, 02:06 PM   #59
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
I strongly suspect that is an error by the ebay seller.

It sees as per Tokina it is only available for Canon and Nikon and is aps-c.

Tokina
We can email him and find out

Which I just did. Report back later.
06-27-2012, 02:23 PM   #60
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