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04-19-2012, 09:57 AM   #301
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QuoteOriginally posted by luftfluss Quote
B&H is still most definitely a B&M company. They are a travel destination for pros and enthusiasts.
But what allows them to be the size they are on the real estate they occupy is not the B&M it's the web

04-19-2012, 10:08 AM   #302
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
But what allows them to be the size they are on the real estate they occupy is not the B&M it's the web
Oh sure, the majority of their business is web-based, but B&H still has a B&M sensibility (for instance, they still close for holidays), and have daily walk-in traffic that numbers in the thousands.
04-19-2012, 10:17 AM   #303
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QuoteOriginally posted by luftfluss Quote
Oh sure, the majority of their business is web-based, but B&H still has a B&M sensibility (for instance, they still close for holidays), and have daily walk-in traffic that numbers in the thousands.
Oh I know, I've been in the store way back. they have been really big for eons (catalogue used to be a big part of the business i'm sure but nothing like what has happened with web sales. their Huge B&M also benefits from being in NYC there is a huge pro industry there thanks to the fashion and advertising industries.
04-19-2012, 10:21 AM   #304
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
They are forcing retailers such as Adorama et al. which are also B&M to sale at msrp
Are we so sure B&H and Adorama (and maybe even Amazon) didn't ask Pentax to police the gray market?

04-19-2012, 10:23 AM   #305
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QuoteOriginally posted by Docrwm Quote
Funny isn't it, Pentax raises prices on existing lenses without adding any value while Nikon comes out with new superior kit and actually offers it at a more affordable price.........makes you want to cry or rant or something
Do you read at all? We've been over and over that.
04-19-2012, 10:26 AM   #306
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
not for long i bet

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-news-rumors/183023-photo-forum-rus...lr-camera.html

4 SLR in the line, I would bet on all but the entry being WR
Do you mean to imply by this that my Camera Body Roadmap has been RIGHT?

In about 12 months I will expect sincere congratulations and a few genuine apologies. I'm building my list now.
04-19-2012, 10:27 AM   #307
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Do you mean to imply by this that my Camera Body Roadmap has been RIGHT?

In about 12 months I will expect sincere congratulations and a few genuine apologies. I'm building my list now.
looks like it

I must say though it is what made sense after the interview in January, but after years of Hoya working at killing off things I think many had trouble seeing the possibilities Ricoh saw
04-19-2012, 10:55 AM   #308
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QuoteOriginally posted by luftfluss Quote
B&H is still most definitely a B&M company. They are a travel destination for pros and enthusiasts.
It's like visiting FAO Schwartz was when I was a kid.

04-19-2012, 10:57 AM   #309
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Are we so sure B&H and Adorama (and maybe even Amazon) didn't ask Pentax to police the gray market?

Gosh, didn't you (or was it others that love this policy) claim that Amazon (and to some degree A and B&H) WERE the source of the Grey Market?

No, I believe that given their business model Amazon did not do so. Can we know at a testimony in Court level, no.
04-19-2012, 10:58 AM   #310
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Do you read at all? We've been over and over that.
As I said earlier, simply because you say something repeatedly does not make it so nor does it make those who do not believe you stupid or illiterate as you have implied. I believe you are simply and completely wrong on this issue. How hard is that to accept? You're arguments are not convincing. I disagree with you. How else can I say that and not be accused of being either a dolt or not reading your arguments? Oh, and the "We've been over this" condescending BS - talk to your grandkids that way, not other adults.

Last edited by Docrwm; 04-19-2012 at 11:29 AM.
04-19-2012, 11:04 AM   #311
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QuoteOriginally posted by Docrwm Quote
Gosh, didn't you (or was it others that love this policy) claim that Amazon (and to some degree A and B&H) WERE the source of the Grey Market?

No, I believe that given their business model Amazon did not do so. Can we know at a testimony in Court level, no.
Actually i think he mentioned amazon and Best Buy first. Personally I would look to the smaller authorized dealers who had to meet the minimums. BH and Adorama would have been capable of meeting the minimum. Best buy is only likely due to their troubles (though the minimums may have been high given they only carried it on the web)
Walmart I can completely see supplying the grey market to move inventory that is sitting, but knowing what walmarts terms are to get in I doubt it was an issue

For grey market product it usually is transshipped from a domestic dealer (which is explicitly against the dealership agreement). If another dealer puts enough pressure on the brand or the brand sees issues being caused buy Grey market they usually trace the offending dealer and punish them including losing their dealership for repeat offenses
Grey market also appears form other markets with lower prices (when a few grey dealers were shut down up here when I was still in the business the product was either US in origin or Hong Kong)
04-19-2012, 11:04 AM   #312
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Are we so sure B&H and Adorama (and maybe even Amazon) didn't ask Pentax to police the gray market?
BH and Adorama clearly lists their gray market items as "import" or "grey market."

Example:

Nikkor 200mm/4 Micro with 5 year U.S.A. Warranty

$1649 shipped

Nikon 200mm f/4D ED-IF AF Lens, USA 1989

Grey market

$1399 shipped

Nikon 200mm f/4 D ED-IF AF Lens, Gray Market 1989 G
04-19-2012, 11:15 AM   #313
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
BH and Adorama clearly lists their gray market items as "import" or "grey market."

Example:

Nikkor 200mm/4 Micro with 5 year U.S.A. Warranty

$1649 shipped

Nikon 200mm f/4D ED-IF AF Lens, USA 1989

Grey market

$1399 shipped

Nikon 200mm f/4 D ED-IF AF Lens, Gray Market 1989 G
and the reason they have grey market Nikon is because Nikon controls pricing on the non grey market

but his question was more did bh ask them to police it (ie get the grey market dealers under control. most grey market dealers are not up front about it like BH is. and locally for them there are a bunch of POS grey market dealers who are really sleazy aside from the web ones (many of whom are the same sleazy crew)
04-19-2012, 06:06 PM - 1 Like   #314
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Do you mean to imply by this that my Camera Body Roadmap has been RIGHT?

In about 12 months I will expect sincere congratulations and a few genuine apologies. I'm building my list now.
I knew that list looked familiar! I was reading that thread this morning and swore that I had basically seen it before, but couldn't remember where..
04-19-2012, 07:27 PM   #315
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
and the reason they have grey market Nikon is because Nikon controls pricing on the non grey market

but his question was more did bh ask them to police it (ie get the grey market dealers under control. most grey market dealers are not up front about it like BH is. and locally for them there are a bunch of POS grey market dealers who are really sleazy aside from the web ones (many of whom are the same sleazy crew)
Sorry, your first comment is laughable to say the least. BH operates just like any retailer only that they are bigger than most others. If they can make money selling grey market (aka parallel import) goods, they will do so, and what's to stop them. In most countries, parallel importing is not against the law but obviously it is up to the local distributor to monitor and control as there are obvious issues with parallel importing at the dealer level. Being a big name in the biz, they better come clean if they sell grey goods as they have a reputation to protect.

Most customers will never know if the online item they bought is a grey product or not if they are not told about it or there are giveaway signs like instruction manuals or packaging in different languages. Nothing implicitly wrong with grey goods per se but if you need peace of mind with a warranty, then pay more for it.
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