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04-19-2012, 03:10 PM   #181
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QuoteOriginally posted by lesmore49 Quote
To quote the OP:

"I pledge not to buy a new Pentax branded lens until the new pricing policy is eliminated.

I will only buy new from other makers such as Sigma or Tamron.

If I do buy a Pentax branded lens it will only be used."



I think this thread does not make much sense.
I agree that he perhaps should have suggested not buying at or close to MSRP.
QuoteOriginally posted by lesmore49 Quote
Look.... costs of manufacture, marketing costs to do business, wages of employees, etc...go up. Every company has to deal with these issues, including Pentax-Ricoh. I would rather Pentax-Ricoh continue to make equipment at the same high quality levels and pass on the extra costs, when necessary, than make cheaper products, in order to cut costs.
If you read Ned's response, you will see that this isn't going to Ricoh/Pentax to fund R&D, QC or improve pay for lens assemblers. It is going to the retailers. That is why Ned said Pentax didn't raise prices since last year. They just made selling at MSRP a requirement to remain an official dealer.
QuoteOriginally posted by lesmore49 Quote
BTW, I a few days ago I ordered a new Pentax Limited lens.

This thread is a non issue.
Did you pay MSRP for it? Be sure to send in the local sales tax. If enough people refused to pay MSRP or close to MSRP, it would eventually have an impact.

04-19-2012, 03:11 PM   #182
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QuoteOriginally posted by Docrwm Quote
the functional equivalent of saying FU. Thanks.
Is it indeed. Well then in that case Thank You lesmore49.
04-19-2012, 03:19 PM   #183
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QuoteOriginally posted by Docrwm Quote
Thanks for your input. You're wrong but you're entitled to be wrong and have a say. BTW, coming into a thread like this and saying "BTW, I a few days ago I ordered a new Pentax Limited lens." is the functional equivalent of saying FU. Thanks.
I see.
04-19-2012, 03:26 PM   #184
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
I agree that he perhaps should have suggested not buying at or close to MSRP. .....
Unlike how the mischaracterizations paint me, I am not inflexible or unreasonable - just sick of Koolaid and slams from Pentax officials. Your point about MSRP is actually what my intention was, but in light of your comment I have added an Edit to the original post to this thread. Thanks.

I'm also fascinated that this is such an insignificant effort, and we've lost anyway, but the Choir director and singers seem to have an irresistible need to come by and see what the five of us have posted.


Last edited by Docrwm; 04-19-2012 at 03:42 PM.
04-19-2012, 03:56 PM   #185
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FFS someone lock this already. All it has devolved into is people posting their opinions and Docrwm insulting them for it.
04-19-2012, 05:08 PM   #186
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Was chastised for hijacking another thread, and so I bring this issue here.

Originally posted by Quicksand
"These are two separate (but related) issues.

If you enjoy the Pentax DSLR you bought at Target, you might want to go down to, say, Kaufmann's Cameras and see what other lenses and accessories they have. Or Calumet, or Wolf. Or look on the Target website.

Thus, we have BOTH a big-box retail push AND stricter price management."

My Reply:
That does nothing for Target, they're not likely to actually stock $2k lenses they're way outside their demographic. Again, this looks like a smokescreen by Pentax. It would be nice to have more entry level Pentax users, granted. Target may achieve that to some degree. However, they are not going to be competing for sales of $1.5-2k lenses. Price stability on the dSLR was achieved recently on the K-5 by LOWERING the MSRP, NOT increasing it. Again, this doesn't look to benefit Target in their pursuit of sales of entry level dSLRs so why would Target, or the unnamed wink wink Big Box retailer that they have been in negotiations for over a year with (BS), have any interest in the high end lenses and their prices. Even if they did, why not control the stability of their pricing in the same manner that the K-5 price was just stabilized - by lowering the MSRP to a reasonable level?
04-19-2012, 06:16 PM   #187
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
You never presented any comparative data on either spatial geography or population density nor city to city or metro area comparisons. However, we were discussing the distribution system of Pentax Imaging (aka Pentax U.S.A.) and not Australia. The requirement of the 2 would be different because of the spatial geography and location of population centers.
That's strictly true - in an earlier post to the one you referenced, I only presented rough data for Canon USA dealers as an observation, and provided a US average, but if you re-read it you can't reasonably infer that it was one-sided. I didn't bring the Australian situation into that post, only as a later response to your assertion that people from outside the US didn't understand spatial geography. I can understand the obvious differences between the US and Europe - I was just pointing out that the Australian population is even more sparsely distributed than that of the USA, so if anything, our situation with local camera dealers should be more like yours.
04-19-2012, 06:24 PM   #188
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QuoteOriginally posted by RobA_Oz Quote
That's strictly true - in an earlier post to the one you referenced, I only presented rough data for Canon USA dealers as an observation, and provided a US average, but if you re-read it you can't reasonably infer that it was one-sided. I didn't bring the Australian situation into that post, only as a later response to your assertion that people from outside the US didn't understand spatial geography. I can understand the obvious differences between the US and Europe - I was just pointing out that the Australian population is even more sparsely distributed than that of the USA, so if anything, our situation with local camera dealers should be more like yours.
Or worse as you have fewer high concentrations of your population with greater average distances between those large concentrations.

04-19-2012, 06:46 PM   #189
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Another tidbit for anyone who isn't ignoring me

Adam posted in another thread in this SLR Lens Discussion Forum that according to the statistics he gets on sales at B&H to support PFs there have been 0 DA sales at MSRP but that the non-MSRP FAs are selling briskly!

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-slr-lens-discussion/181349-da70-vs...ml#post1895891

Guess I'm not as stupid as the Koolaid Brigade seems to think about the impact of MSRP pricing on sales.
04-19-2012, 06:46 PM   #190
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Stop stirring the pot. You've already lost.
I'm sorry I thought I was done with this thread, but did you really win a forum thread on the internet? You decided that yourself? Where is the "boom roasted"?

QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
...You're pissing off the entire Forum.
This argument is contained within a few threads and is easy to avoid; and, come on, you like arguing. You seem to have really enjoyed the whole thing. Don't get mad, this will all be forgotten in a week.
04-19-2012, 07:08 PM   #191
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QuoteOriginally posted by RobA_Oz Quote
That's strictly true - in an earlier post to the one you referenced, I only presented rough data for Canon USA dealers as an observation, and provided a US average, but if you re-read it you can't reasonably infer that it was one-sided.
I didn't run down Canon's dealer net work. Here in Tallahassee is simple, Best Buy and they have how much of the slr market?


QuoteOriginally posted by RobA_Oz Quote
I didn't bring the Australian situation into that post, only as a later response to your assertion that people from outside the US didn't understand spatial geography. I can understand the obvious differences between the US and Europe - I was just pointing out that the Australian population is even more sparsely distributed than that of the USA, so if anything, our situation with local camera dealers should be more like yours.
Most don't even when they have visited either NY or Los Angeles. Plus, I wasn't talking about sparseness of population but the number of population centers spread out all over the country. Denver is 1700 miles one way driving to NY City. But San Diego to NYC is ~ 2x that. Then look at Miami as a city and as a metro area compared to Seattle, Washington. Those are high population density areas and they are far apart. Through in San Juan, Puerto Rico or Honolulu or Alaska and it is even farther although there is no really dense population areas in Alaska or Maine. Even San Diego and San Francisco are in the same state and they are about 500 miles apart. That is a similar thing for me here in the state Capital of Florida and Miami. The U.S. and Europe would actually be a better comparison than Australia. With Europe and the U.S.A. the best way to compare them is to look at each State like you would a country in Europe.

Here are some population centers these cities are centered in areas with over 1 million people. The ones in bold may have a B&M with Pentax in them other than maybe a K-r body.

Atlanta
Miami
Nashville
Jacksonville
Tampa-Clearwater-St Pete
Memphis
Kansas City
St Louis
Denver (but don't bet on it)
Houston
Dallas
Pittsburg
Philadelphia
Baltimore
Washington, DC-Beltway
Boston
NYC
Chicago
Louisville
Cincinnati
Minneapolis-St. Paul
Phoenix
San Diego
Los Angeles-Anaheim-Long Beach-Burbank-Pasadena
San Francisco-Oakland
Sacramento
Portland
Seattle
04-19-2012, 07:08 PM - 1 Like   #192
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No, I will not take any such pledge. If I find a lens I want at a price that makes sense to me, I'll buy it. If the minimum Pentax price is too high for me, I won't buy. That is how I looked at it a month ago, too. Nothing has changed.

Higher prices for new products will allow sellers to raise prices for used gear, too. Simple market dynamics. Unless of course, no one buys. But see next point.

Purchasers moving from new to used gear bring an increased demand to the used marketplace and create yet more pressure for higher used prices. Those who limit themselves to used gear are helping sellers - but certainly not buyers.

It makes no sense to go on some sort of silly strike because I don't like the pricing model. What if the model remains but Pentax modifies pricing to the point that it works for me? Or if it works for you? Do you really want people to maintain this strike even though prices for some or all lenses become non-rapacious? Who determines which price is reasonable?

We're all of three weeks into a new pricing approach in America. Let's recall what's printed in large, friendly letters on the cover of the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Don't Panic
04-19-2012, 07:14 PM   #193
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QuoteOriginally posted by jamesk8752 Quote
You've hit the mark, Bill. Some people just don't (or don't want to) understand that retailers must make a profit or they can't stay in business; thus the lack of shops selling Pentax. It would be nice if Pentax and their retailers could just give away lenses, but that is not the way of the world...
How many B&M shops do you guys have in Detroit and the area?
04-19-2012, 07:21 PM   #194
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I live in a city of 200K - 250K. There are three Pentax shops here, all under one ownership. A locally-owned big box style store sells cameras but not Pentax. Yet.

Another city (perhaps 2-3 times the population) about 80 miles away has two shops on the Pentax Web site. I know there are other camera dealers but I don't know how many.

With luck, the existing Pentax dealers will swing attention to our brand and other shops will sign up, as well. But they'll have to be convinced that Pentax will maintain price support and increase dealer support, customers will buy to make it worth while, and they can count on these things for the long run.

I don't see how a strike by the core of Pentax owners will help this happen. But then I haven't worked retail for years .....
04-19-2012, 07:30 PM   #195
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QuoteOriginally posted by Docrwm Quote
Another tidbit for anyone who isn't ignoring me

Adam posted in another thread in this SLR Lens Discussion Forum that according to the statistics he gets on sales at B&H to support PFs there have been 0 DA sales at MSRP but that the non-MSRP FAs are selling briskly!

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-slr-lens-discussion/181349-da70-vs...ml#post1895891

Guess I'm not as stupid as the Koolaid Brigade seems to think about the impact of MSRP pricing on sales.
What Adam actually said is this:

Looking at the items our members have bought at B&H so far this month, there are no DA lenses- only FA limiteds

So yes, I think you're right. Discounted FA limiteds are better than MSRP DA limiteds.
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