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04-21-2012, 11:53 AM   #271
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QuoteOriginally posted by glanglois Quote
Re: a) and c):

Sometimes you do have to raise prices first, unfortunately. If Pentax failure rate were to decline to, say, half the existing level, it might take a year or two (maybe more) before we'd look at each other and say, "Yikes, we don't see as many SDM (or whatever) failures as we used to." It can take a long time to change customer perception of this kind.

OTOH, I would have suggested to Pentax USA that they make warranty changes at the same time as the new pricing model. I cannot imagine that it's difficult to do so. Even something as simple as offering an optional extended warranty as they do on camera bodies. $20-$40 for two more years would get me to look at a couple of new lenses even at the new price.

Can anyone suggest why that's a hard thing to do?
I hear the 'raise the price first so they have more money to do" X, Y, and/or Z line a good bit here on PFs. The problem is that Ned has said several times, and seems defensive about it lately, that Pentax is not actually raising prices (BS and Double BS) it's their real customers the retailers that are doing that and so Pentax is not getting 1 cent more out any lenses. So, if the volume of lens sales has declined as several indicators seem to show and Pentax isn't getting even 1 cent more per lens they actually have less money to plow back into R&D and such. That argument just doesn't survive when the information available from Ned is considered.

04-21-2012, 12:11 PM - 1 Like   #272
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I pledge that I will buy the lens that I want and need, when I need it. Will it be a pentax, or another brand? Don't know, will see when I get the lens.
04-21-2012, 12:19 PM   #273
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Just to address an issue that was raised in another thread - I am not debating or posting in the absence of information, I am reading Ned's blog. The fact is he's posting but not any real information, simply "you have to understand" and "Wait and see" messages that are vacuous. 2 days ago he posted this gem ". I can't possibly share everything we are working on but the notion driven by the forums that we're not looking at this Growth in America strategy from every angle is just not an accurate picture."

Let me be clear, releasing price increases - and darn dramatic ones at that - without any other initiatives in place ALREADY is poor planning and leadership IMHO. Wait til summer, you'll see in a few months, I can't tell you now, are all complete and utter BS. Of course I believe Pentax is considering other things, I also believe completely that they are thinking of many NOW that were not considered 3-5 weeks ago because of the comments here and elsewhere about how they bungled this whole process.
04-21-2012, 01:13 PM   #274
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QuoteOriginally posted by Docrwm Quote
Just to address an issue that was raised in another thread - I am not debating or posting in the absence of information, I am reading Ned's blog. The fact is he's posting but not any real information, simply "you have to understand" and "Wait and see" messages that are vacuous. 2 days ago he posted this gem ". I can't possibly share everything we are working on but the notion driven by the forums that we're not looking at this Growth in America strategy from every angle is just not an accurate picture."
That is a gem. Politician speak.

General People: "We're considered that your policy A will be affecting us in a B manner."
Politician: "This notion that I'm not concerned about C is completely false."

To be fair he shouldn't be telling us everything. Of course that doesn't excuse the politico speech.

04-21-2012, 01:15 PM   #275
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
Pentax Fool's Day
You're probably too humble to admit it - so let me say it for you. You, sir, have distilled 1000 comments into three witty words.

You are my hero.
04-21-2012, 01:17 PM   #276
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
That is a gem. Politician speak.

General People: "We're considered that your policy A will be affecting us in a B manner."
Politician: "This notion that I'm not concerned about C is completely false."

To be fair he shouldn't be telling us everything. Of course that doesn't excuse the politico speech.
I do not expect them to reveal all to us, seriously. I do expect that they will not just zing us with outrageous prices without ANYTHING else, nor do I expect only political speech.
04-21-2012, 01:25 PM   #277
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QuoteOriginally posted by Macario Quote
I pledge that I will buy the lens that I want and need, when I need it. Will it be a pentax, or another brand? Don't know, will see when I get the lens.
+1 on that!
04-21-2012, 03:29 PM   #278
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QuoteOriginally posted by glanglois Quote
Re: a) and c):

Sometimes you do have to raise prices first, unfortunately. If Pentax failure rate were to decline to, say, half the existing level, it might take a year or two (maybe more) before we'd look at each other and say, "Yikes, we don't see as many SDM (or whatever) failures as we used to." It can take a long time to change customer perception of this kind.

OTOH, I would have suggested to Pentax USA that they make warranty changes at the same time as the new pricing model. I cannot imagine that it's difficult to do so. Even something as simple as offering an optional extended warranty as they do on camera bodies. $20-$40 for two more years would get me to look at a couple of new lenses even at the new price.

Can anyone suggest why that's a hard thing to do?
Except in this case, the increase isn't going to Ricoh according to Ned, it is going to the retailer. Therefore, it wouldn't have any bearing on warranty as far as price increase goes.

04-21-2012, 03:31 PM   #279
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QuoteOriginally posted by Macario Quote
I pledge that I will buy the lens that I want and need, when I need it. Will it be a pentax, or another brand? Don't know, will see when I get the lens.
Be sure to pay at least the MSRP for and ideally give them a 20% boost to help them out.

QuoteOriginally posted by DaveHolmes Quote
+1 on that!
Remember to be sure you are paying MSRP. Of course since you are not in the U.S.A., it is a moot point.
04-21-2012, 03:35 PM - 1 Like   #280
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
You're probably too humble to admit it - so let me say it for you. You, sir, have distilled 1000 comments into three witty words.

You are my hero.
Do you realize you just quoted yourself, and called yourself "your hero".
04-21-2012, 04:45 PM   #281
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QuoteOriginally posted by selar Quote
Do you realize you just quoted yourself, and called yourself "your hero".
LOL! I thought I was the only one noticed that.
04-21-2012, 04:48 PM   #282
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Is all rosy? No, but under Hoya, things were bad and slowly getting worse. Certainly it will take awhile to get new lenses ready for release, but it is an indication of how lousy the pipeline for new products was with Hoya that there is so little in the way of new glass at this point. I think it is clear that more will come.
I agree with you re: Hoya. They were a terrible parent - from day one you can tell they never wanted the imaging department and only wanted medical tech.
They instilled some very bad corporate ethos in Pentax. Cutting corner on QC, on design. This was not the Pentax I used to remember.

Who knows if Ricoh will turn the ship around or not and re-cultivate the old values. From looking at Ricoh as a company I have some hope they are not Hoya.
04-21-2012, 05:43 PM - 1 Like   #283
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
Be sure to pay at least the MSRP for and ideally give them a 20% boost to help them out.



Remember to be sure you are paying MSRP. Of course since you are not in the U.S.A., it is a moot point.
To be fair, a lot of these folks must be getting a nice check from Pentax, which explains the blind faith. I cant think of another reason to support a corporation which expects to pay more for a product without an incentive. If not a check, maybe pentax performs a lot of charitable work in their community?

In all honesty, do I want pentax to succeed, yes I truly do. That's why I don't want them alienating what little followers they have left.
04-21-2012, 07:41 PM - 8 Likes   #284
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I read about half the thread,

so this might have already been addressed. Sorry.

To my fellow Americans: this is the bed we have made. Racing to the bottom on price is the natural outcome of our insatiable demand for products at ever cheaper monetary costs. Just because many of those outside the US value the ability of a local B&M store owner and staff to make a decent living doesn't mean they are suckers for having paid higher costs on Pentax gear.

Crying that there are no B&M stores while still demanding ever decreasing prices is ridiculous. Why do you think that Amazon, Adoroma, and B&H were the major Pentax retailers in the States? Americans decry the loss of local, small and medium sized businesses while still shopping at the chain stores. Why? Because they think they deserve it all, and how dare that local business charge more for the exact same thing I can get over at Wal-Mart? "Look at how much I saved! Look at this deal I got!," they say on their cell phones as they drive down the freeway, bypassing the decaying neighborhoods where children go hungry (and the only meals they get include "vegetables" like processed pizza from school lunch).

The cognitive dissonance is astounding.

Americans that come into my place of business- a big box store- are always complaining about price.* Well maybe if we gave a hoot about our neighbors, we wouldn't have sent all of our manufacturing jobs to China so a few on Wall St. could line their pockets. Maybe if we actually thought that our neighbors were worth something, we would patronize them and keep our dollars within our local economies rather than jumping ship when a major corporation opens up a store whose #1 goal is to run the mom and pops out of business. Don't kid yourself, the big box stores vacuum money out of local economies and send them to absentee shareholders who don't care about you or your locality.

Oh, pre 08 collapse was great wasn't it? Those big boxes with cold air conditioning, Coke vending machines, and built in McDonald's showing up to improve our lives with cheap consumer goods that those greedy local business owners were previously charging you 15% on! Shame on them for not wining and dining the politicians for sweet heart legislation and tax deals. Shame on them for not being successful in cutting the throats of their competitors. They must not know that shareholder value is worth more than anything else in the world.

We've betrayed our communities for decades and when the manufacturer of cameras we have purchased a unit from declares higher prices to bring back street level presence in our country, we jump all over them. How dare they take away our right to half priced goods? How dare they! Its not as if their products were being rated right on up there with Canon and Nikon. Its not as if DSLRs aren't actually a hobby for fairly affluent people, those who live on a budget to enjoy high end products pertaining to their hobby, or professionals who derive an income from the products. You own a $1000 camera. If you want top of the line lenses, you should expect to pay nearly the same amount. It isn't Pentax's fault that we have destroyed our middle class and suddenly think that $1600 is too much to spend on excellent glass. Which for most of us, is a hobby.

Could the price increase have been paired with a FF camera, better warranties, service? Sure. But to say that as Americans we should have everything half off because "we know how to do business" just doesn't hold water. Sorry. Most people around the world value their communities more than they do great "deals" on consumer goods that would force them to sacrifice their communities on the altar of supposed "free market" economics.

And if it is true that there was a threat that B&M stores abroad were losing business to those titans of American commerce- good on Pentax Ricoh for protecting the livelihoods of hard working people.

/end rant

*I'm emigrating from the US in two months and a big box store was the only job in the area with consistent hours and wages that I wouldn't have to lie to about how long my employment would last. I wouldn't be able to lie to a local business and say: "Oh yes, spend all that precious time training me so I can leave the country in three months."

Last edited by Finchj; 04-21-2012 at 07:44 PM. Reason: Glaring grammar mistakes.
04-21-2012, 08:14 PM   #285
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That was just... beautiful. Congrats on emigrating.
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